HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Hamilton > Transportation & Infrastructure


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 3:23 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is online now
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 19,872
32 East-West Rapid Transit King Street-Main Street Eastgate Mall to McMaster University
33 North-South Rapid Transit James/Upper James Street Downtown Hamilton to Rymal Road

• Incremental phased-in approach to Bus Rapid Transit will unlikely achieve minimum AFP project size threshold

• GTTA proposed staff workplan approach:
Continue to work with municipal officials to develop ultimate end-state BRT or LRT vision
Meanwhile, provide support for next incremental investments in BRT through proposed GTTA MoveOntario 2020 quick-win package
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 3:35 PM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,054
am I the only one who has a hard time seeing us have 24-hour GO trains anytime in the next decade??
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 4:28 PM
matt602's Avatar
matt602 matt602 is offline
Hammer'd
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 4,751
I don't really care about 24 hours, I just want steady weekday and weekend service. I'm not enjoying the bare bones rush hour service we're getting now. Hell, the trains aren't even bi-directional. It's only out to Toronto in the morning and back to Hamilton in the evening. Want a train out to Toronto in the afternoon/evening? No dice. Take the bus and enjoy the QEW parking lot.
__________________
"Above all, Hamilton must learn to think like a city, not a suburban hybrid where residents drive everywhere. What makes Hamilton interesting is the fact it's a city. The sprawl that surrounds it, which can be found all over North America, is running out of time."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 4:59 PM
the dude the dude is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,812
i go to TO fairly frequently and would love the opportunity to take the train. i know i'm not the only one, though i don't know about it being 24hrs. perhaps demand would increase with availability.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 5:35 PM
LikeHamilton's Avatar
LikeHamilton LikeHamilton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Posts: 2,701
VIA has not approved it yet. And from people I know that have worked on getting VIA to Hamilton…don’t hold your breath. There not interested in that location. They either want a lot of money and fix the Hunter tunnel, connect to the CN line by Ottawa Street (Gage Avenue line) and be in the GO Centre (centrally located one stop transit center) or be in the east end close to vehicle access and parking. James is too close to Aldershot and they will not leave there. It is in the almighty corridor.

I cannot see any advantage to GO splitting their operations and have trains and busses almost 2 km apart. I really do not think people coming downtown on a bus will be interested in transferring to another bus and add another 15 to 20 minutes each way to their daily commute.

I think we should be pushing for the proper solution and put everything around the GO Center. Go & VIA left James because it generated no increases in traffic. Even GO had increases almost immediately after move from James to the GO Center.

We keep nickel and dimming everything in this city. Make a transportation hub in one location. Connect it to the other transportation hub in the city, the Airport.

Make a long term plan for light rail and not just the two lines. The original proposal for LRT should not be based on the old City of Hamilton boundaries, which they are being proposed at this time. This is one big city. The east west line should start by Fruitland Road at Hwy 8. There is still a lot of vacant land out there. Build a small station and a huge free parking lot. There is direct access to the QEW at Fruitland Road and encourage people to take the LRT to downtown and the GO Centre. The west end should go into Dundas along Main Street and not Cootes Drive (Not yet). Run the line to the bottom of HWY 8 where it is industrial land like chemical plants. Again with a small station and large free parking lot. Take the LRT to McMaster and the GO station there instead of driving to Aldershot or downtown. The reason for a line into Dundas via Main Street/Osler Drive is that you then, as a future project, run a line up to Ancaster Via Main/HWY 2 Hill/Wilson Street, through downtown Ancaster by the new Fair Grounds to HWY 52. Again with access to HWY 403 and with a small station and large free parking lot connecting to the GO station at McMaster, the Innovation Centre and on to downtown.

The north south line starts at the waterfront to the GO Center, over to the Claremont Access to the West 5th exit to a new Mohawk College transit centre (Connected to the school), along Fennell back to Upper James to the Airport. The Airport part should be built from the beginning. The present plan has it stop at Rymal the historic old city limits. The proposal should have a plan to extend to the line to Caledonia. If not into the town as far as the rail line at least to the city limits again with a small station and large free parking lot. We should push this part as the government having faith in the future growth of Caledonia. Good PR for the provincial government.

Other lines that should be laid out are, in no particular order:

· East west Mohawk Road from Wilson Street line to the Meadowlands, across the mountain, across the Red Hill Parkway and down Mud Street to Centennial Parkway.

· Short Fennell line from Mohawk College terminal to Mountain Brow Blvd.

· A Short line on Concession from Upper Ottawa to Upper Wellington. Then up to Fennel and either end or continue on to the Mohawk College station.

· A line running from the Meadowlands (Connecting to the Mohawk line) to Mud Street VIA the LINK. This would be more of an express east west line.

· A Rymal Road run from the Ancaster Fair Ground to Upper Centennial.

· A King Street line (the first east west should be on Main Street/Question Road/Hwy 8) from the Hwy 8/Fruitland Road terminal then on to King Street in Stoney Creek staying on King Street to McMaster. This line could then continue on to Dundas along Cootes Drive.

· A Barton Street line starting around 50 Road and the Peach Festival Fair Grounds travelling to James Street/Waterfront area and maybe then up to the GO Centre.

· A Cannon Street Short line from Parkdale to Dundurn Park and possibly a seasonal run into the Botanical Gardens. This line may be extended into Burlington/Aldershot to the VIA/GO Station one day.

· North south lines, besides a Wilson Street/Ancaster and James/Upper James route, a line should run from the huge large development in Binbrook. This can go down Hwy 56 or at time through fields to Upper Centennial down Hwy 20 Hill and then down Centennial to the QEW and the new (I think they will build it) power centre and VIA/GO station. This line can be extended to Confederation Park and down Beach Blvd to the canal and lift bridge.

· A line should be built on Upper Ottawa from Rymal Road with connections at the LINK, Mohawk, Fennell and Concession, down the Kenilworth Access to King and then over Ottawa Street and down to the Centre mall connecting to the Main, King, Cannon and Barton Street routes.

Yes this will take a few years to complete. But once the ball starts to roll and people and the different levels of government see the return on their investments, it will be easier to get funding. Also developers and people buying houses/property/businesses will know that there will be an LRT line near them in the near future. After seeing how it is great for business, developers, home owners and business people may start asking for a LRT line to be extended or a new line be built into their area

Let the other levels of government know you’re serious about better transportation and not just go for what you think they will fund. Who knows, they maybe looking for someone with vision to lead the next revolution in transportation in the province and country?

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 8:22 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is online now
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 19,872
For 6 new articulated buses it cost $5.5 million. Those are coming right away, as announced by Dalton during the election.

For the East/West corridor $17.4 million will be spent for 12 buses which should cost $11 million. So they'll be $6.4 million leftover, probably for streetscaping to add a transit lane.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 8:36 PM
DC83 DC83 is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post
For 6 new articulated buses it cost $5.5 million. Those are coming right away, as announced by Dalton during the election.

For the East/West corridor $17.4 million will be spent for 12 buses which should cost $11 million. So they'll be $6.4 million leftover, probably for streetscaping to add a transit lane.
I don't think the addition of all these buses necessarily means that we will only ever get BRT.
The fact is, there are not enough Articulated Hybrid Buses currently. I take this route twice daily, and it's very rare that I get on one of these buses. Prolly like 2-3 rides /week. And everytime I'm on a normal bus (as either King or Beeline), it's crazy packed (depending on the time of the day).
So these new buses will be a VERY welcome addition... yet it certainly doesn't limit us to BRT.

If the city were to start building LRT, would they wait til 2010 or whatever it was for the money from Dalton? Or would they start once the official plan was complete?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 8:43 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is online now
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 19,872
You can see below how and when the $17.4 million for the East/West corridor will be spent, 12 new buses and $6.4 million leftover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTown View Post


Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 9:32 PM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,054
17.4 million?? well, in that case I think we should be planning for LRT immediately. Why waste 17.4 on buses?? let's do it right...we have one shot at this.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 9:53 PM
SteelTown's Avatar
SteelTown SteelTown is online now
It's Hammer Time
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 19,872
It's not $17.4 million towards buses for the East/West corridor it's $11 million. $6.4 million is going towards BRT such as streetscaping, and terminals.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2007, 10:10 PM
the dude the dude is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,812
so confused. i guess the stations could be built and used for lrt IF it comes to that.

the james north station also confuses me. i suppose we'll have to wait for these things to work themselves out. too much speculation.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2007, 12:01 AM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by LikeHamilton View Post
I think we should be pushing for the proper solution and put everything around the GO Center.
LH you make a ton of great points and I wish I had time right now to formulate a better response. But for now I want to single out that one sentence and say ABSOULTELY RIGHT ON!

RTH, I'm sorry but I think you are wrong about gore ghosting if the buses are gone. King/James is THE core of the city. It is the ONE spot downtown that needs the least amount of help in terms of getting people in. The proper way to keep gore bustling is to give people some real reasons to go there other than waiting for buses. This means getting vehicles off the south leg and turning the whole thing into an outdoor market every weekend. Host festivals there, have concerts... whatever. Have some REAL attraction there. Bus stops aren't attractions. In fact, huge masses of people waiting for buses there is a sign that our transit system is f'd up as far as wait times go.

The HSR needs a central terminal. It does not have to be a garage, or a specific building, or an enormous structure but the system HAS to have one central spot. The GO station is the perfect choice. The space is there. It's beautiful. It's already built. It links HSR users to regional and long distance transit options.

We need to bring VIA, full service GO and the HSR to Hunter.

We need to creatively route LRT through Hunter. LRT does NOT have to run down a single street. In fact, some intriguing points came up last night.. it might be publicly and politically easier to present an LRT plan that puts the line down some of the less used streets downtown (such as king william).

Anyway lots to think about but the bottom line is that the whole point to the GTTA thing is to create an entire region with sensible links. This means all transit modes should converge at one central spot in each city.
__________________
no clever signoff.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2007, 6:08 AM
LikeHamilton's Avatar
LikeHamilton LikeHamilton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Posts: 2,701
There is more space around the GO Centre than there is in the MacNab Street area. I would remove one building on John Street that is on it's own to build a transit centre for the HSR along Hunter Street. It can be closed to cars. I would try to get as much covered on the site to make it more comfortable for waiting passengers. The HSR already has a ticket office in the GO Centre. There is a restaurant and convenience/coffee shop and facilities there. Plus all of the inter-city buses run out of there.

MacNab Street



GO Centre



MacNab Street and the GO Centre Comparison.

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2007, 2:30 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,421
That building across from the go centre (right above the word "hunter" in your aerials) will not likely be torn down. Isn't it under redevelopment right now?

I argue that the GO centre could be used RIGHT NOW as an hsr terminal with no work other than some route changes, a few curbs and painted lines. the bus area behind the centre is horribly underused most of the time. it all just needs to be planned better.
__________________
no clever signoff.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2007, 2:34 PM
DC83 DC83 is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,430
^^ Amen!! The TH&B is totally underused and has so much opportunity to be a huge, bustling terminal... like how it used to be in the old days (King/Catherine).

Quote:
RTH, I'm sorry but I think you are wrong about gore ghosting if the buses are gone. King/James is THE core of the city. It is the ONE spot downtown that needs the least amount of help in terms of getting people in. The proper way to keep gore bustling is to give people some real reasons to go there other than waiting for buses.
There's a big rant from me about this in the Pedestrianize Gore Park thread, and I agree 100%. It's the BIA's fault that no one is in the Gore other than those waiting for buses. If you're waiting for a bus, you're not going to stop into Taj Mahal for a bite to eat... you'll end up missing ur bus.

Once the BIA gets it's act together, it'll be a much different story in the Gore.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2007, 2:42 PM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,054
I like the idea of a central 'terminal' at GO Station, but PLEASE, no more knocking down buildings!
Allow me to clarify what I mean by the buses bringing traffic and business to the Gore.
my bus takes me right to King and James... I regularly do my banking, go to the market, stop for a coffee at PAMs etc....
I wouldn't be doing that if my bus ended at Hunter. Well, actually, I personally might, but someone from the east end or Mountain isn't going to want to walk all the way from Hunter to the market and back.
Look at transit hubs in Toronto - full of shops, people, business etc....that was my main point. Transit brings business to the Gore.
Remember that online Spec interview they did when Fred suggested pedestrians only downtown? one shop owner said "none of these cars are stopping to eat in my restaurant, the people walking on the street are".

Transit can and should become a focal point of business/commerce/street life.
Watch how many people waiting for a bus on King St have a coffee in their hand, or pizza or bagel etc..... Hunter would be fine for mountain buses (although I'd rather them turn around at Rebecca or Cannon St) but the east west buses should remain on the north leg of King....and I'd LOVE to see LRT running past Gore. They could open up a piece of the fence on the north side of the park for a platform/station right at Hughson.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2007, 3:09 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,421
heres a possible lrt route that includes mcmaster, the student ghetto, innovation park, hunter TERMINAL ;-) and gore. requires widening the hunter st tunnel which needs to be done anyway so that we can make hunter a transit hub. lrt doesnt have to run just straight down one street :-)
__________________
no clever signoff.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2007, 3:16 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by raisethehammer View Post
someone from the east end or Mountain isn't going to want to walk all the way from Hunter to the market and back.
Yes but ideally a central hub would make switching buses much easier and allow for better timing where at least the drivers can see each other and communicate. So switching to a bus that gets you to the market is painless. Also, the buses don't have to turn around at hunter. They could stop for a couple minutes and continue on to other parts of downtown. I.e. it doesnt have to be a turnaround for each bus. you don't have to get off there. if you stay on, it could go to other interesting palces before backtracking, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by raisethehammer View Post
Transit can and should become a focal point of business/commerce/street life.
Watch how many people waiting for a bus on King St have a coffee in their hand, or pizza or bagel etc.....
There's no reason we shoudln't allow hunter to have a little transit oriented development. After all, newcomers to the city get off at the hunter station. shoudln't they step out the door into some nice retail etc? why do we have to restrict the retail to gore? in my opinion, the true core includes the hunter station, city hall, the market, etc... gore just happens to be "ground zero"

Quote:
Originally Posted by raisethehammer View Post
Hunter would be fine for mountain buses (although I'd rather them turn around at Rebecca or Cannon St) but the east west buses should remain on the north leg of King
the east west buses can still come as far as hughson (or james or john or whatever) and people can still get off at a stop that essentially touches the gore. but the buses will continue on to hunter where the drivers can have a pee break and passengers can transfer buses at least underneath a roof...

The bottom line is gore is a beautiful spot that doesnt need parked buses to bring people there. we need a central hub, not two separate ones where you ahve to walk a block or more in order to switch buses. lets use some ATTRACTIVE methods to keep people coming to gore, and move the buses out!
__________________
no clever signoff.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2007, 3:33 PM
raisethehammer raisethehammer is offline
Closed account
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,054
agreed wholeheartedly. I'm not suggesting for a minute to keep buses in the Gore.
I'm referring to the north leg of King and Main Street.
Also, I really prefer LRT to be on the street. the whole goal is economic development and transit-oriented development. using a back route from Mac to downtown minimizes that.
Plus, we have AMPLE space on Main/King Streets for LRT. Not to mention, ample development potential.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2007, 4:06 PM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,421
true (regarding development) but as far as servicing riders, cutting through a student area and through the inno park as well as mcmaster and the hunter station... huge. lots of street level development still available downtown if it cuts down hughson from hunter. also might be easier to sway the car lovers toward LRT if it's on king william instead of main or king straight through the core... leave the precious lanes alone for that stretch. we's then see tonnes of development along king william and king is still plenty close to take overflow TOD. king william could use the boost and it could be a transit-only street (no cars)... that woudl be awesome i think

anyway, i have to quit dreaming about routes but its hard not to
__________________
no clever signoff.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Hamilton > Transportation & Infrastructure
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:11 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.