The Awful Canadian Stroad Thread - Page 9

Innsertnamehere · #**161** Posted **Jul 19, 2021, 1:47 PM**

Federal funding was announced today for Hamilton to reconstruct the vastly over-capacity Birch Avenue.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2595...7i13312!8i6656

The nearly $50 million project will replace a rail underpass, demolish another, and lower the road grade in a third to create modern clear heights. It will also turn it from a 3-lane one way street to a 1 lane in each direction street with a multi-use path on one side.

The road is hilariously over-capacity as it is today. A new, $200 million bus garage will also be built directly adjacent to the street.

The city has already completed the first phase of the reconstruction, further south:

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2542...7i16384!8i8192

Hamilton has generally been converting 1-2 streets a year from one way to two way for the past decade. the 1-way system as it is today is far smaller than it was a generation ago.

Acajack · #**162** Posted **Jul 19, 2021, 1:48 PM**

Hydro corridor used as soccer fields near my place in Gatineau. It's ugly as sin but at least people get some recreational use out of it.

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4892...7i16384!8i8192

MonkeyRonin · #**163** Posted **Jul 19, 2021, 2:43 PM**

There really are a ton of massive hydro corridors running through Toronto - I'm assuming they're as a result of hydro power coming from Quebec or up north? In any case, at least they're put to good use for various things.

Allotment gardens: https://goo.gl/maps/trxW997f5RxvG5Xw6

Recreational trails: https://goo.gl/maps/ihZexyHE4SsURg2F8

Commuter parking lots: https://goo.gl/maps/TpzFXgDrLfwbyv697

School fields: https://goo.gl/maps/8BCFtiWDWRsgzirc9

Busways: https://goo.gl/maps/ZZWn1HeooaFTRvCo7

Etc.

Their biggest benefit in the future may end up being transit corridors though. Wouldn't be hard to run a surface rail line through a ready-made, publicly-owned corridor with basically zero expropriation required.

thewave46 · #**164** Posted **Jul 19, 2021, 3:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

There really are a ton of massive hydro corridors running through Toronto - I'm assuming they're as a result of hydro power coming from Quebec or up north? In any case, at least they're put to good use for various things.

Their biggest benefit in the future may end up being transit corridors though. Wouldn't be hard to run a surface rail line through a ready-made, publicly-owned corridor with basically zero expropriation required.

The major transmission systems of Ontario connect Bruce Nuclear Power Plant (on Lake Huron) with Pickering and Darlington Nuclear east of Toronto.

There is some hydro power from the Ottawa River between North Bay and Ottawa and dams north of Timmins, along with the plant at Niagara Falls.

I suspect there's good reasons the corridors can't be buried as they're pretty high voltage (500kV). Even if they were, the corridors would have to be protected anyway, because these are fundamental links in the province's electrical system.

I'd be curious if a transit corridor would work.

Innsertnamehere · #**165** Posted **Jul 19, 2021, 3:14 PM**

Also recall that Bruce is the second largest nuclear plant on the planet and even then was only recently surpassed.

Ontario in the 1970's also had incredible electric demand growth resulting from industrial uses. At the time they expected demand to continue growing at an incredible place, so a lot of electrical infrastructure was future proofed for massive capacities. Of course with de-industrialization, electrical demands have been relatively flat for the last several decades even in spite of strong population growth, which means a lot of infrastructure is overbuilt.

Acajack · #**166** Posted **Jul 19, 2021, 3:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

There really are a ton of massive hydro corridors running through Toronto - I'm assuming they're as a result of hydro power coming from Quebec.

Connections between the Ontario and Quebec hydro grids are minimal to nil.

I believe they built a small connection across the Ottawa River around Cumberland (east of Ottawa) a couple of years ago. It was the first such connection and is in case of emergency only.

Unless I am mistaken.

thewave46 · #**167** Posted **Jul 19, 2021, 3:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Connections between the Ontario and Quebec hydro grids are minimal to nil.

I believe they built a small connection across the Ottawa River around Cumberland (east of Ottawa) a couple of years ago. It was the first such connection and is in case of emergency only.

Unless I am mistaken.

I think there is some interchange between Quebec and Ontario in the Ottawa area, but the grids are asynchronous - which is to say, they're not meaningfully connected in any way.

Quebec's grid is independent of the North American one. There are HVDC transfers to the US, however. It did help isolate Quebec from the 2003 blackout, but it also means the ability to import power is limited.

jamincan · #**168** Posted **Jul 19, 2021, 3:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

There really are a ton of massive hydro corridors running through Toronto - I'm assuming they're as a result of hydro power coming from Quebec or up north?

The hydro corridors in Toronto are primarily lower voltage lines for delivery into neighbourhoods. The major 500 kV lines leading into the GTA come from the west (Nanticoke and Bruce) into a major transformer station in Milton, from the north (Sudbury) into a major station in Vaughan, and from the east into a major station in Pickering. 500 kV lines connect those three stations along the 407 corridor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Also recall that Bruce is the second largest nuclear plant on the planet and even then was only recently surpassed.

For a short time it was actually the largest after the one in Japan which was the largest for the longest time was shutdown following the Fukushima disaster. I believe the largest is now in Korea, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46

Quebec's grid is independent of the North American one. There are HVDC transfers to the US, however. It did help isolate Quebec from the 2003 blackout, but it also means the ability to import power is limited.

There are two major interconnects (Outaouais and Beauharnois near Cornwall) between Quebec and Ontario, and a bunch more minor ones. Outaouais is is unique in that it is an HVDC intertie directly between the grids, while the others are simply power stations on the border that have the capability to have some capacity directly connected to either grid. The total capacity between them is only 2 GW, or so, and is mostly limited to supply the Ottawa area and Eastern Ontario.

MolsonExport · #**169** Posted **Jul 19, 2021, 4:34 PM**

Why do the power lines need so much space around them? Is there any truth to the fears associated with exposure to high tension power lines? I am sure I could look it up, and pardon my relative ignorance on the matter.
They seem to require more space, in some cases, than even highways require.

thewave46 · #**170** Posted **Jul 19, 2021, 4:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Why do the power lines need so much space around them? Is there any truth to the fears associated with exposure to high tension power lines? I am sure I could look it up, and pardon my relative ignorance on the matter.
They seem to require more space, in some cases, than even highways require.

I suspect it has something to do with the potential of a wire dropping should it fail. Under windy conditions it could swing a fair way and these aren't small amounts of electricity being carried either.

MolsonExport · #**171** Posted **Jul 19, 2021, 4:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46

I suspect it has something to do with the potential of a wire dropping should it fail. Under windy conditions it could swing a fair way and these aren't small amounts of electricity being carried either.

all the more reason to bury these lines.

jamincan · #**172** Posted **Jul 19, 2021, 5:08 PM**

I think it's mostly to keep a buffer around the lines to avoid arcing and inductance. In some cases they might have reserved capacity in the ROW for future capacity.

jamincan · #**173** Posted **Jul 19, 2021, 5:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

all the more reason to bury these lines.

It sounds like that comes with a lot of disadvantages and you don't really recover the corridor either: https://www.nationalgrid.com/sites/d...issues_INT.pdf

MonkeyRonin · #**174** Posted **Jul 19, 2021, 7:12 PM**

Wow, well thanks for all the explanations!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46

I'd be curious if a transit corridor would work.

Don't see why not. I drew up some of the major hydro ROWs here (thick red lines). Most of them are fairly flat & straight and would theoretically be relatively easy to lay down track - either LRT on grade with signalled crossing at street level, or fully grade separated trenches below cross streets.

Some of them could be well-utilized for some sort of eventual express-type service:

kool maudit · #**175** Posted **Jul 21, 2021, 10:58 AM**

Could you run commuter trains on these corridors, with the electrification of the line carrying the power?

(I only know about these things on a SimCity level)

Truenorth00 · #**176** Posted **Jul 21, 2021, 11:22 AM**

I grew up near the zoo. The Gatineau hydro corridor in Scarborough has been proposed to host a freeway and a rail line in the past. I'm sure it can be done.

jamincan · #**177** Posted **Jul 21, 2021, 11:40 AM**

This article talks about a project to bury a HVDC line connecting Chicago with Iowa along a CP rail line. They reference difficulties with AC interfering with signaling systems. I'm sure solutions exists, but it might raise the cost. https://www.volts.wtf/p/transmission...-burying-power

I do wonder if HVDC will start being considered more seriously for long distance transmission instead of HVAC. There seems to be a lot of advantages and the primary disadvantage (cost of equipment to convert to and from AC) seems to become less of a problem due to newer technology and is less of an issue if only used for the main trunk of the system. For example, Hydro One built two 180km 500kV circuits between Bruce Nuclear and Milton for $700 million in 2012. Would it have been cheaper to convert existing circuits to HVDC which can carry more power over the same lines (though I'm not sure how much more) with less power lost?

Metro-One · #**178** Posted **Jul 25, 2021, 6:49 AM**

Just thought I would share some of my local stroads here in Marugame Japan / Utazu, Japan.

This is the stroad I drive every day to work. This is a very typical arterial road in suburban Japan.

Driving Kagawa by Ian, on Flickr

Driving Kagawa by Ian, on Flickr

And here is the downtown stroad of Utazu, a typical urban artery. This one is a 2 minute walk from my apartment.

This road also acts as the tertiary east / west through road for the area. The primary is full fledged freeway about 5 km south, the second is a mixed signal / interchange 4 lane road about 3 km south.

Driving Kagawa by Ian, on Flickr

Driving Kagawa by Ian, on Flickr

Pics are my own, Cheers!

Acajack · #**179** Posted **Jul 25, 2021, 12:04 PM**

Fascinating as always.

I know that a lot if signage in Japan features the Latin alphabet.

What is your rough estimate of the percentage of Japanese people who can actually read that?

Metro-One · #**180** Posted **Jul 25, 2021, 12:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Fascinating as always.

I know that a lot if signage in Japan features the Latin alphabet.

What is your rough estimate of the percentage of Japanese people who can actually read that?

All Japanese students learn the Roman alphabet around the 3rd or 4th grade of elementary school, but the level of actually understanding of English words and phrases varies considerably. Most of them are just Japanese words simply written in the Roman alphabet. I have asked many people why they do that, and the answer is always just, “because we think it looks cool.”

The situation is similar to those who get Chinese character tattoos. They have no real grasp of the language, they just like the foreign look.

As for the topic of stroads, I feel many on here underestimate how common they are outside of North America. The average Canadian seems to think the typical Japanese neighborhood looks like the historical core of Kyoto, when actually the typical Japanese neighborhood when considering the entire country is more akin to what you find in Burnaby or Surrey, BC. In fact the built form of Richmond is eerily similar to suburban Japan.