BNSF in White Rock

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Tunnels require regular inspections and maintenance in addition to the electricity costs associated with powering the ventilation fans.

Well regular open air track requires inspection and maintenance too, is it really that much more expensive because it's in a tunnel?

Electricity costs I can see, although you only need to run the fans for relatively brief periods during and shortly after a train transits the tunnel, which is only what - around a dozen times a day for that route? I'd be surprised if it was all that expensive relative to the value of moving the goods through it.

It just seems to me like that must be a pretty tiny piece of the puzzle compared to everything else. I've gotta believe that it would probably take many, many decades of operation for those kinds of expenses to get anywhere near the construction cost and land acquisition costs.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Well regular open air track requires inspection and maintenance too, is it really that much more expensive because it's in a tunnel?

Electricity costs I can see, although you only need to run the fans for relatively brief periods during and shortly after a train transits the tunnel, which is only what - around a dozen times a day for that route? I'd be surprised if it was all that expensive relative to the value of moving the goods through it.

It just seems to me like that must be a pretty tiny piece of the puzzle compared to everything else. I've gotta believe that it would probably take many, many decades of operation for those kinds of expenses to get anywhere near the construction cost and land acquisition costs.

I am talking about maintenance on the tunnel structure itself in addition to the regular maintenance on the track structure.
Also consider it takes time to clear a tunnel of diesel exhaust before another train can pass through. That limits the frequency of traffic flow. It takes around 30 minutes to clear the Mt McDonald tunnel.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

I am talking about maintenance on the tunnel structure itself in addition to the regular maintenance on the track structure.
Also consider it takes time to clear a tunnel of diesel exhaust before another train can pass through. That limits the frequency of traffic flow. It takes around 30 minutes to clear the Mt McDonald tunnel.

Thornton Tunnel takes 20 but they want to add more fans to lower than to 10 minutes.

http://vancouversun.com/business/loc...fic-congestion

[Trainguy]

I guess the Province doesn't think $300, 000 is worth it since the rail line will never move anyway.

Province Denies $300,000 Ask for Rail Route Study

White Rock British Columbia - White Rock Mayor Wayne Baldwin will be writing to B.C.'s transport minister to urge reconsideration of a decision not to contribute funds for a joint study looking at relocating the BNSF route off the waterfront.

In a 24 Jan 2018 letter sent to both Baldwin and Surrey Mayor Linda Hepner, Claire Trevena said "at this time, the ministry is unable to provide funding" for the study.

Surrey had been asking, on behalf of both cities, for a $300,000 provincial contribution to the estimated $900,000 for the study.

White Rock is to contribute $75,000 and Surrey, $225,000, with a further $300,000 requested from the federal government.

On Monday night Baldwin sought, and gained, council approval to draft a letter in response, "in light of the recent slides on the track."

Mudslides on 29 Jan 2018 and the early morning of 30 Jan 2018 following heavy rainfall, prompted BNSF to impose temporary track closures which affected the Bellingham to Vancouver passenger service, as well as freight service.

Baldwin said there had been a total of six separate mudslides on the track between White Rock and Crescent Beach in that period.

"It's $300,000, it's not a lot of money to the province," he told Peace Arch News following the meeting.

"This is a potential loss-of-life situation."

Surrey transportation manager Jaime Boan said he thinks his city will likely "have further dialogue with the provincial government" on the decision, acknowledging that it will delay the spring 2018 to March 2019 time line originally hoped for.

"We're obviously disappointed," he said.

"We have had response in the past that indicated support from the province."

In her letter, Trevena said that while she recognized the importance of improving rail safety to both cities, "the BNSF is a federally-regulated railway that falls under the safety oversight of Transport Canada, and consideration of the railway safety impacts of relocating the corridor resides with Transport Canada."

Boan said that while the point is understood, he feels that issues about the route's safety could not only affect goods movement, impacting the provincial economy, but also pose "an environmental and community safety risk that fits within the provincial mandate."

He said the city will be "actively pursuing" the federal component of the funding, applied for last August and not yet confirmed, in spite of encouragement to apply from federal transportation Minister Marc Garneau, over the next few months.

Boan noted that this year's slides are far from isolated incidents.

"There have been many mudslides on the tracks over the years," he said.

"From the BNSF perspective, they feel they are able to manage the risk. From the city side, it is a concern."

The idea of relocating the shoreline route was raised by the cities in a joint community forum hosted by then-Surrey mayor Dianne Watts and Baldwin in 2013.

It was also the subject of a series of hearings before the federal Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure, and Communities in Ottawa in 2016, urged by Watts, who served as MP for South Surrey-White Rock before resigning in 2017 for her failed bid to become BC Liberal leader.

Alex Browne.

[Trainguy]

Here we go again!! Keep dreaming because it will never happen!! No one will fund a billion dollar relocation project.


Surrey Councillor Renews Call to Move Crescent Beach Rail Line

Crescent Beach British Columbia - A Surrey councillor is renewing calls for a study into moving railway lines in the Crescent Beach area of the city.

It comes after a freight train broke down on Saturday, blocking the two access points to Crescent Beach, a popular draw for tourists and day trippers on Boundary Bay.

"Basically, the community is trapped," said Coun. Judy Villeneuve on Sunday.

"So it's our goal to get the railway to move, but until then they have to be called upon when they're dealing with those kinds of mistakes."

Just after 15:00 PT Saturday a train suffered mechanical issues and came to a dead stop, blocking access to and from the community.

Vehicles were lined up for around two hours until the problem with the train was solved.

That was a concern for local restaurant owner Stephen Lodge, who had to do without three staff who couldn't make it to work.

But he was also worried about emergency situations.

"My biggest concern was if anyone was to hurt themselves, an ambulance couldn't get down," he said.

"All the guys in the kitchen, I was like, don't touch a knife... you can't get out of here... that was my biggest worry."

Number of Trains has Grown

First responders can call ahead to Burlington Nothern Santa Fe (BNSF), which owns the rail line, to have trains stopped if they are heading to Crescent Beach for an emergency.

However, that wouldn't have helped in this instance.

"So we think it's in the best interest of the rail to move," Villeneuve said.

"The number of trains has grown too extensively."

Villeneuve, who has been a city councillor for 30 years, says the number of trains coming through has grown from five or six in a 24 hour period to more than 20.

The trains can take up to eight minutes to pass through Crescent Beach.

For a number of years the City of Surrey has been calling for a railway relocation study, which has a price tag of around $900,000.

Villeneuve says the city needs the province to partner with it on the study.

The argument for relocation is not just about better access for the community, Villeneuve says, adding that there have been slides along slopes where the train passes.

She also notes concern about rising ocean levels.

In the meantime BNSF says it is investigating what happened to the train that broke down.

Chad Pawson.

[dharper]

It would be a lot cheaper to build an over/underpass to access Crescent Beach, than to move the entire rail line.
But of course access to Crescent Beach is only the current excuse to get the rail line moved.

[SgtNeonPanda]

Plus, Surrey is considering buying out the homes in Crescent Beach in the long-run due to concerns around rising sea levels.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ange-1.4675432

[dharper]

It would be far cheaper to take the properties over after they flood, rather than buying them out before they flood.

[Trainguy]

I have to chuckle with regards to this article. Of course the feds don't have this issue on their radar. To them it is a non-issue. Anything they say is just lip service "imho". Mayor Wayne Baldwin will be long dead before rail relocation ever happens.

Huge disappointment’ leads to Peninsula rail-relocation forum

Aug. 1, 2018

The City of White Rock is issuing an invitation to Surrey and the Semiahmoo First Nation to hold a joint ‘citizens forum’ on rail-route relocation, following a meeting with federal officials that Mayor Wayne Baldwin termed “a huge disappointment.”

Baldwin acknowledged last week that the idea behind the proposed event – which came out of the Intergovernmental and First Nations Committee meeting on July 23 – is to jump-start the movement for relocating the BNSF’s waterfront route at a grass-roots level.

The recommendations from the committee, moved by Coun. Grant Meyer, also include forming a working group to organize the citizens forum in September or October – which would draw on the Citizens’ Railway Safety Committee.

They also call for city staff to seek advice from transportation consultant Mary Jane Bennett, or the Canadian Transportation Agency, on moving the rail line to an alignment along Highway 99, and also to initiate studies on relocation and realignment options with Surrey staff.

A June 28 meeting held in Vancouver – at the request of the federal Ministry of Transportation, and expedited by South Surrey-White Rock MP Gordie Hogg – brought together Baldwin, Surrey Coun. Judy Villeneuve, Semiahmoo First Nation councillor Joanne Charles, Surrey-White Rock MLA Tracy Redies and BNSF and Transport Canada officials, and was chaired by Pacific Region assistant deputy minister Robert Dick.

But Baldwin said that while relocation was discussed at the June meeting, what he felt was the overall emphasis on waterfront rail safety provided no assurance for him that relocation from the Semiahmoo Peninsula is being taken seriously on a federal level.

“It seemed like they were trying to distract us, to deter us from applying for grants (for studying relocation); to deter us from taking the whole thing further,” Baldwin told Peace Arch News.

And while action items emerging from the meeting included setting up “table-top exercises” – in which all three local governments would participate – to study strategies for dealing with a potential major emergency, Baldwin said he considered the project “a bit of a sop.”

“To do joint exercises and have an emergency review because we could have a derailment – well, thanks a lot, we’re already doing that,” Baldwin said.

He noted that, in suggesting such action, the federal ministry is clearly acknowledging the likelihood of a derailment – one of the compelling reasons for exploring relocation.

“It either makes sense or it doesn’t make sense – let’s get going on this,” Baldwin said.

“It’s very frustrating, after so many years of going through this. It seems like they’re dragging their heels.”

Baldwin and then-Surrey mayor Dianne Watts launched the current rail-relocation impetus with a public forum on Nov. 26, 2013.

Baldwin this week added that the status of what he understood to be a federal commitment to cost-share a study of relocation (with the provincial government, Surrey and White Rock) also seems to be in question.

But Hogg said Monday he believes that Baldwin is in error that such a commitment had been made at the time the rail-relocation issue was being pursued by Watts – when she became South Surrey-White Rock MP for half a term – and Fleetwood-Port Kells MP Ken Hardie.

“I was surprised when he mentioned it in his state-of-the-city address,” Hogg said.

“It was at a time when I wasn’t in the (MP’s) office, but when I followed it up subsequently with the Ministry of Transportation, there was no commitment made.”

Hogg noted that the June 28 meeting had focused on immediate and short-term safety goals and also the long-term goal of relocation.

He added it was the first time representatives of all governments and organizations involved were at the same table discussing the issues.

“That hasn’t happened to this point – I feel it was a very positive step forward.”

Hogg said that he and Redies have just sent a letter to provincial Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure Claire Trevena, promoting the idea of relocation as part of the development of a high-speed Pacific Northwest rail link, currently under discussion between the province and U.S. authorities.

[Trainguy]

Man Injured After Being Struck by Train

White Rock British Columbia - A 58-year-old Surrey man sustained non-life-threatening injures after being struck by a train in White Rock Sunday afternoon.

It happened around 13:00 PT at the 15700 block of Marine Drive.

RCMP say the man was trying to get his two unleashed dogs off the tracks, out of the way of the train when he was struck.

Gus Melonas, who speaks for Burlington Northern Santa Fe (BNSF), says the train was travelling around 32 kph when crews spotted the man.

"The train was whistling, the bells were working," he said.

"The crew went into an emergency brake situation to stop."

B.C. Emergency Health Services originally said the victim was in serious condition.

Melonas says no BNSF workers were injured.

Company investigators, along with RCMP, are trying to figure out what led to the incident.

RCMP say the dogs were not injured.

Police are asking anyone who witnessed the incident to contact Surrey RCMP.

Active Rail Line

White Rock is hosting its annual Sea Festival on Sunday, meaning there are more people than usual along the waterfront and tracks.

Melonas says BNSF crews will be patrolling the area to make sure people are aware that the tracks are an active rail line and they stay off them.

Point: dogs are not allowed on the promenade or beach in White Rock. Signs are clearly posted. This serious accident could have been easily avoided.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

lucky he didn't die. wonder how he got hit to have "non-life threatening" injuries. i guess he cared more about his dogs well-being than his own.

in the end, natural selection will always do what it does; if you cant read a situation and act in a safe way, you will most likely be taught a painful/deadly lesson.

[ilikeredheads]

two unleashed dogs

can't really blame anyone but himself. He's really lucky to only get non life threatening injuries.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

i guess he cared more about his dogs well-being than his own.

Duh? Was he supposed to let them get run over? Any pet owner with a pulse would've done what he did - the stupidity was bringing his dogs to a "no dog" area, and off-leash.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

lucky he didn't die. wonder how he got hit to have "non-life threatening" injuries. i guess he cared more about his dogs well-being than his own.

in the end, natural selection will always do what it does; if you cant read a situation and act in a safe way, you will most likely be taught a painful/deadly lesson.

One story said he jumped out of the way and another mentioned he got clipped.

[twoNeurons]

It's long past time for pedestrian gates at all white rock crossings.

https://youtu.be/roQX6xtuvIw?t=525

• Video Link

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

It's long past time for pedestrian gates at all white rock crossings.

wont fix anything. people walk under and around gates all the time. people even drive through gates. plus people keep walking along the tracks, not just across them in White Rock.


best solution is look both ways before crossing, and listen for a horn. they blow them all the time. most people hit were dumb asses.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

wont fix anything. people walk under and around gates all the time. people even drive through gates. plus people keep walking along the tracks, not just across them in White Rock.


best solution is look both ways before crossing, and listen for a horn. they blow them all the time. most people hit were dumb asses.

Yes it will solve a problem. It will stop the majority.

Why do we have turnstiles on SkyTrain when people who don't want to pay the fare will just hop the gates?

And yes... people look both ways... but they often don't always have a good sense of distance. the crossing dings and what do people do now? They look for the train and say... oh I can still go. With barriers, MOST will think twice.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Yes it will solve a problem. It will stop the majority.

no, it wont. the problem isn't people being like "idk where that train is, it is far enough" *splat* the problem is more "i don't care, i am not paying attention, i care more about something else".

the trains go slowly along this stretch, and i certainly hope all these people with a bad sense of distance don't drive.

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

the crossing dings and what do people do now? They look for the train and say... oh I can still go. With barriers, MOST will think twice.

when you go back and read all the stories of people hit they weren't just crossing and being like "oops misjudged it" its people running on the tracks to save their dogs, people walking down the tracks with headphones in, or people not paying attention. and many people dont even cross where they are supposed to.

these are the same people that drive around gates, walk around/under gates, and even climb over a stopped/slow moving train at a crossing with their bike.

the people being hit will not be stopped by a gate because they weren't hit for normal reasons.


we should not be baby proofing our world for stupid people that natural selection are weeding out.


personally i think the railway should just put up a 10ft chain-link fence along the edges of the ROW and have the city build some under passes. that's what i would do if i were them; it would solve the problem instantly.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Yes it will solve a problem. It will stop the majority.

Yeah... I think I agree with the others that the majority isn't the problem. The people who would honour the gates would for the most part be those that aren't stupid enough to get hit by a train. Given the restricted speed that trains operate along White Rock you have to be pretty... I want to say "dumb" but perhaps I'll be charitable and just use "unaware"... to get hit.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Any kind of crossing gate needs to come with a (minimum) waist-high fence. Getting somebody to look up from their phone/dog leash and think "okay, this means I can't go here" or "okay, I might die if I try to hop over this thing" or "okay, I'm going to hop over this thing, but I better be alert" would help filter the hardcore Darwin Award recipients from the casual ones.