Phoenix Area Low- and Mid-Rise Development Thread

[muertecaza]

Originally Posted by Chestnut1

Regarding Novel at 3rd and Earl - After a very long period relocating utilities, construction began in earnest a few days ago.

Building permit officially issued yesterday

Also, demo permit was issued yesterday for the office building at 1314 N. 3rd St., confirming that there apparently wasn't sufficient office demand for that phase of City Center on the Park and they are moving forward with apartments there instead.

[downtownphxguy12]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

Building permit officially issued yesterday

Also, demo permit was issued yesterday for the office building at 1314 N. 3rd St., confirming that there apparently wasn't sufficient office demand for that phase of City Center on the Park and they are moving forward with apartments there instead.

Sad that there isn't enough demand for office space. But more residential on the park is great. Wish they were condos so there is more ownership downtown. More people on the park hopefully will move the homeless out.

My friend (male) used to walk his dog over that side of the park and didn't feel safe. Now need to get the church on third street to start feeding them there and donate to the homeless campus over by the capital.

[biggus diggus]

I think I've mentioned this before but an acquaintance of mine (maybe even friend, I don't know) works for Sencorp, the developer of enHance, and they have been struggling mightily. Multiple people have purchased units there only to sell them later at a loss because they didn't feel secure in the neighborhood. Sales are extremely slow. They have a business model that should have worked. Inexpensive units aimed at first time buyers or young professionals.

This makes a very valid argument against more condos downtown for the time being. People will rent all day long in neighborhoods that are "cool" but maybe a bit "sketchy" momentarily. People will not buy in those locations, for the most part.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I think I've mentioned this before but an acquaintance of mine (maybe even friend, I don't know) works for Sencorp, the developer of enHance, and they have been struggling mightily. Multiple people have purchased units there only to sell them later at a loss because they didn't feel secure in the neighborhood. Sales are extremely slow. They have a business model that should have worked. Inexpensive units aimed at first time buyers or young professionals.

This makes a very valid argument against more condos downtown for the time being. People will rent all day long in neighborhoods that are "cool" but maybe a bit "sketchy" momentarily. People will not buy in those locations, for the most part.

Have those who sold their units at a loss been the victims of actual crimes there, or is it just a sense of being unsafe?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I think I've mentioned this before but an acquaintance of mine (maybe even friend, I don't know) works for Sencorp, the developer of enHance, and they have been struggling mightily. Multiple people have purchased units there only to sell them later at a loss because they didn't feel secure in the neighborhood. Sales are extremely slow. They have a business model that should have worked. Inexpensive units aimed at first time buyers or young professionals.

This makes a very valid argument against more condos downtown for the time being. People will rent all day long in neighborhoods that are "cool" but maybe a bit "sketchy" momentarily. People will not buy in those locations, for the most part.

They built too far north. I would argue that now that the different apartments around the park are done those will rise in desirability.

There is such things as being ahead of the pack, but Enhance was straight up too early to the game.

I think theyll do well going forward but its not surprising that its struggled

[ASUSunDevil]

EnHance completely whiffed on the pool (as many do).

They're still getting $300+ per sf. and are 70% sold out.

If they can coincide Phase 2 with the opening of a renovated Hance Park, I think they'll sell faster than Phase 1 did.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

I think I've mentioned this before but an acquaintance of mine (maybe even friend, I don't know) works for Sencorp, the developer of enHance, and they have been struggling mightily. Multiple people have purchased units there only to sell them later at a loss because they didn't feel secure in the neighborhood. Sales are extremely slow. They have a business model that should have worked. Inexpensive units aimed at first time buyers or young professionals.

This makes a very valid argument against more condos downtown for the time being. People will rent all day long in neighborhoods that are "cool" but maybe a bit "sketchy" momentarily. People will not buy in those locations, for the most part.

Not exactly sure how valid that safety argument would be. Edison is having the same problem with selling and there is not a homeless problem around Edison. On the other end, Portland on the Park has had no problems selling and is just as adjacent to Hance Park as EnHance and a lot of Portrait residents jog or walk Hance Park daily. I still firmly believe that if you build condo's out of wood in Downtown, you are not going to sell very well. You are basically buying an apartment. Case in point, Portrait is having no problems leasing quickly with the same situation that EnHance has to deal with. Granted this is buying vs. renting, but living in a location is living in a location whether you own or rent when it comes to the perception of safety.

[combusean]

Yeah. It sucks there's not much of a market for cheap entry level condos--the homeless at Hance Park have been a problem even before the opiate crisis. Hard to believe anyone would not know about that beforehand.

Even in the last boom they sold the remaining condos at my previous building at 636 N 4th Ave at a significant loss. No pool or amenities on site--seems the entry level crowd would rather get "more" for their money at a higher-end apartment. A friend paid the same for a place at Skyline for a big concrete 1 bedroom as my crummy condo and I long questioned my decision.

[biggus diggus]

A lot of the points above you all have posted are accurate but the underlying issue still remains the same, people drive to the sales office on beat up roads looking at sidewalks full of grass and with blown out concrete, homeless everywhere, and empty lots left and right.

Very few people have interest in buying something in that environment. Some are on the fence and choose it because it's a "good" deal and regret it later. A few people are happy living there. A few other places are rentals. They've been exploring AirBnB options lately, the building is not penciling out.

[combusean]

I would be pissed if I bought a condo and neighbors were AirBNBing their unit.

Actual hotels get to throw out unruly guests. HOAs don't often get involved with neighbor to neighbor issues. One would have little recourse outside disinterested law enforcement and the legal system.

They should just rent the units out unless they want to slaughter what little value they have left.

[biggus diggus]

This guy is a miser and he loves AirBnB, he even does AirBnB with his guest bedroom at his own house. As someone who has made a lengthy and successful career out of multi family long term investment it pains me to see someone so intent on short-term leasing.

Oh well, it's his choice.

[nickw252]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

This guy is a miser and he loves AirBnB, he even does AirBnB with his guest bedroom at his own house. As someone who has made a lengthy and successful career out of multi family long term investment it pains me to see someone so intent on short-term leasing.

Oh well, it's his choice.

I'm also a long-term Airbnb host. I have a vacation rental cabin up in Pine. That being said, I definitely wouldn't like it if I lived in a condo and my next door condo unit was a short-term rental. Basically I'd be upset about having to put up with the downside (noise, wear and tear, risk of theft) when I'm not getting any of the upside (rent from the guests).

[CrestedSaguaro]

I recently stayed in a home that was converted into an AirBnB in Las Vegas for a couple nights back in April. It was a terrible experience for me. The neighbors eye'd me anytime I arrived and left and the other guests were heavy pot smokers...not that I have problem with it...but I swear they were all baked the entire time I was there. I never once seen them leave. It then made me worry about my stuff even though my room was locked, they were not very secure doors. I've sworn off AirBnB ever since. I'll stick with a hotel.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

I recently stayed in a home that was converted into an AirBnB in Las Vegas for a couple nights back in April. It was a terrible experience for me. The neighbors eye'd me anytime I arrived and left and the other guests were heavy pot smokers...not that I have problem with it...but I swear they were all baked the entire time I was there. I never once seen them leave. It then made me worry about my stuff even though my room was locked, they were not very secure doors. I've sworn off AirBnB ever since. I'll stick with a hotel.

Never do a shared Air b&B or one where the owners are there with you. What were you thinking.

Rent a whole place or go to a hotel.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Never do a shared Air b&B or one where the owners are there with you. What were you thinking.

Rent a whole place or go to a hotel.

LOL, I wasn't thinking about anything except saving a few bucks...plus my buddy was the one that set it up, so it was already arranged for my trip. I was leary from the get go and it was the first my time experiencing an Airbnb.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

LOL, I wasn't thinking about anything except saving a few bucks...plus my buddy was the one that set it up, so it was already arranged for my trip. I was leary from the get go and it was the first my time experiencing an Airbnb.

I have used Air B&B for years but I always rent a full unit/house never share. Usually you can get much bigger and nicer places for comparable or cheaper than you can a hotel. Plus you get stuff like a Garage or a Kitchen that you cant really get in a hotel.

Dont let that experience spoil it for you Air B&B is great.

[biggus diggus]

I also am a frequent Airbnb user, I love the site. I've never once had a bad experience, I know how to interpret reviews and I would never stay somewhere with a shared space unless it were a high end bnb. I won't even stay somewhere with community bathrooms at national park trips. Some of these places have provided exceptional stories. We once stayed in a guest house on the property next to Phil Mickelson's house in Rancho Santa Fe. Some cities are really fighting it, Chicago taxes it so heavily that it doesn't provide much savings over a hotel. Trips to Jackson hole have become much cheaper too for nicer and roomier accommodations.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Not exactly sure how valid that safety argument would be. Edison is having the same problem with selling and there is not a homeless problem around Edison. On the other end, Portland on the Park has had no problems selling and is just as adjacent to Hance Park as EnHance and a lot of Portrait residents jog or walk Hance Park daily.

I think a big difference with Portland on the Park is that project is at the west end of the park, which is better designed and less scary than the east end. I see people using the playground and having picnics at the west end all the time. Also, Portland is partially buffered from the main part of the park by the Japanese Friendship Garden.

[PHXflyer]

The build quality of Portland on the Park versus Edison and enHance isn't even in the same ballpark. I've previously owned a condo with the quality of the latter two and will never put money into a project like that again. Concrete floors and steel studs for condo living is the only way

[biggus diggus]

You must remember that Portland on the Park is part of an established neighborhood and the building itself, besides being of better quality, is very removed from the street life.

I don't think it's comparable in terms of location even though it's only a few blocks away.

And yes, wood frame is a huge turn off for condo buyers.