General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[ASU Diablo]

Well this is kind of shitty what's being done to current renters. Isn't The Union on Central doing soomething similar w/ some of their units?

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news...jaunt-11345084

[biggus diggus]

I can shed some light on this:

WanderJaunt is a company that signs long term leases on rental properties and operates them as seasonal rentals, generally through AirBnB. They've called me on and off about different properties I have advertised on Zillow or similar. The last call I got from them was about a house I have at 41st Street and Campbell, an attractive area for seasonal rentals. I had it listed optimistically high, but reasonable, at $2,700 and they offered me $3,000 and they would cover all landscaping, pool, and interior maintenance. They wanted a two year lease. For a lot of investors that's an extremely attractive offer. I understand the temptation and unwillingness to pass it up. I also feel that WanderJaunt (and their competitors) are directly responsible for our artificially low vacancy rate downtown.

In the end I have decided not to work with them. The neighborhood would hate me for having people in and out all the time, I'm not sure their business model is sustainable and any legal action against them when there are bookings for the house down the road could get murky. I also enjoy taking the losses on my properties and moving into a (on paper) profitable business model would just cost me more in taxes.

So, that's what those guys are up to. I don't expect them to slow down any time soon.

edit: to answer your question yes, nearly all of the new downtown apartments are operating a block of seasonal/nightly rentals.

[azliam]

I read a couple months back that Phoenix was a top contender for Uber:
https://azbigmedia.com/business/econ...sion-location/

Did they fall asleep on this opportunity?

Uber confirms new 3,000-job hub in Dallas, Phoenix had been considered

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/..._news_headline

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by azliam

I read a couple months back that Phoenix was a top contender for Uber:
https://azbigmedia.com/business/econ...sion-location/

Did they fall asleep on this opportunity?

Uber confirms new 3,000-job hub in Dallas, Phoenix had been considered

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/..._news_headline

Did the city of Phoenix do a shitty job attracting a major potential employer?? Do you have to ask? They continuously fail to draw businesses into the city limits consistently losing to our own suburbs let alone other cities.

I wish I could tell you why the city is so bad at this.

[azliam]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Did the city of Phoenix do a shitty job attracting a major potential employer?? Do you have to ask? They continuously fail to draw businesses into the city limits consistently losing to our own suburbs let alone other cities.

I wish I could tell you why the city is so bad at this.

True story.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by azliam

True story.

Yeah I don’t know who is in the economic development office at city hall but they should be fired and replaced

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Yeah I don’t know who is in the economic development office at city hall but they should be fired and replaced

I'm sure Uber still has a grudge against AZ too for kicking their self driving cars out of the state

[xymox]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

I'm sure Uber still has a grudge against AZ too for kicking their self driving cars out of the state

You should read about the incentives that Dallas had to offer to get Uber. Our cities hands are pretty much tied trying to offer competing incentives. Dallas was pretty motivated to make up for not getting Amazon. Here the leadership just seems asleep at the wheel in terms of attracting major opportunities like this. They'd rather make a lot of noise about a datacenter that will employ 50 people max.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by xymox

They'd rather make a lot of noise about a datacenter that will employ 50 people max.

Depending on how the city measures their success (probably property tax income is my guess ) data centers provide nice big numbers for their internal goals

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by xymox

You should read about the incentives that Dallas had to offer to get Uber. Our cities hands are pretty much tied trying to offer competing incentives. Dallas was pretty motivated to make up for not getting Amazon. Here the leadership just seems asleep at the wheel in terms of attracting major opportunities like this. They'd rather make a lot of noise about a datacenter that will employ 50 people max.

I've read the incentives that were offered by Dallas. Haven't seen what Phoenix offered, but even if Phoenix offered a similar deal as Dallas, Uber was still going to pick Dallas. Dallas is a major tech hub...always in the top 5 of nearly any tech list for US cities. Dallas also has a much larger economy than Phoenix. Even though Phoenix is making headway in these areas, we still have a ways to go before we start nabbing major developments such as this or Amazon.

[azliam]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

I've read the incentives that were offered by Dallas. Haven't seen what Phoenix offered, but even if Phoenix offered a similar deal as Dallas, Uber was still going to pick Dallas. Dallas is a major tech hub...always in the top 5 of nearly any tech list for US cities. Dallas also has a much larger economy than Phoenix. Even though Phoenix is making headway in these areas, we still have a ways to go before we start nabbing major developments such as this or Amazon.

If you go back and read the first article (dated June) that I posted, the author stated:

"Uber is pitting Phoenix and Dallas, Texas, against each other in its narrowing-down of options, but with Uber’s presence and experience already in Phoenix, chances are you’ll see a “Help Wanted” sign for future Uber employees."

Steve Zylstra, President and CEO of the Arizona Technology Council stated:

“We’ve done so much in the last 10 years to be attractive to places like Uber,” says Steve Zylstra, President and CEO of the Arizona Technology Council, weighing in on the potential for more tech growth in the state. “We have very competitive corporate taxes and a regulatory environment that’s very pro-business.”

“Our weather is better, first of all. And we have a very high standard of living as well as a low cost of living, compared to Dallas, for instance. If Uber moves here it will have to attract a workforce, so those things will help that. The more amenities you have, the more access to talent you have,” said Zylstra.


It's just not enough to make assumptions based upon the company's current presence here. Furthermore, the weather excuse is getting worn out. Also, I thought the COL in Dallas was lower or at least even to what it is here. I guess going above and beyond is too much to ask for when we can just sit on our hands and look up at our great weather...fire them all.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Agreed. If it were weather only, companies wouldn't be flocking to Denver, Seattle or even Columbus. Weather is a nice plus to add, but it's not going to sell 3000 high-tech jobs to an area. Also, just a quick COL check between Dallas and Phoenix:

https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-l...oenix-az/65000

Phoenix is higher in nearly everything except transportation and Misc.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

Agreed. If it were weather only, companies wouldn't be flocking to Denver, Seattle or even Columbus. Weather is a nice plus to add, but it's not going to sell 3000 high-tech jobs to an area. Also, just a quick COL check between Dallas and Phoenix:

https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-l...oenix-az/65000

Phoenix is higher in nearly everything except transportation and Misc.

Yes many people have not realized that the cost of Phoenix is really no longer cheap and is solidly average in basically every way

[combusean]

Originally Posted by azliam

If you go back and read the first article (dated June) that I posted, the author stated:

"Uber is pitting Phoenix and Dallas, Texas, against each other in its narrowing-down of options, but with Uber’s presence and experience already in Phoenix, chances are you’ll see a “Help Wanted” sign for future Uber employees."

Steve Zylstra, President and CEO of the Arizona Technology Council stated:

“We’ve done so much in the last 10 years to be attractive to places like Uber,” says Steve Zylstra, President and CEO of the Arizona Technology Council, weighing in on the potential for more tech growth in the state. “We have very competitive corporate taxes and a regulatory environment that’s very pro-business.”

“Our weather is better, first of all. And we have a very high standard of living as well as a low cost of living, compared to Dallas, for instance. If Uber moves here it will have to attract a workforce, so those things will help that. The more amenities you have, the more access to talent you have,” said Zylstra.

BWAHAHAHA ... Zylstra is a clueless tool of the status quo that makes AZ such a small tech market.

What is he doing about access to capital? Or ability to hire talent that a quality university system produces?

This is why California is so important despite the taxes and regulations, the latter of which don't often apply to tech companies.

And despite there being a high cost of living in California, tech workers can well afford it and enjoy it.

This guy needs to seriously eject his head from his posterior to get tech workers and companies to land in Arizona.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by combusean

And despite there being a high cost of living in California, tech workers can well afford it and enjoy it.

While I agree the leadership here is clueless as to what it takes to grow the tech industry here - I highly disagree with you on that statement. I could take a job in CA and make about what I do here - and have a much lower standard of living. There's no comparison. I certainly couldn't maintain a home for myself and my gf and our children anywhere in the bay area on those wages. If you're single, its slightly a different story. But why make $150k/year and be stuck with crazy income taxes, higher cost of living - including $5000/mth rent for a 1 bd apartment?

The smart people in tech find jobs that pay CA wages but live here and work remotely.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by xymox

While I agree the leadership here is clueless as to what it takes to grow the tech industry here - I highly disagree with you on that statement. I could take a job in CA and make about what I do here - and have a much lower standard of living. There's no comparison. I certainly couldn't maintain a home for myself and my gf and our children anywhere in the bay area on those wages. If you're single, its slightly a different story. But why make $150k/year and be stuck with crazy income taxes, higher cost of living - including $5000/mth rent for a 1 bd apartment?

The smart people in tech find jobs that pay CA wages but live here and work remotely.

In my industry there is very little wage benefit to living in California, I might be able to leverage my base up 20k-30k or so for living in the bay or Socal but my cost of living would be near double and I can have California clients right here in Phoenix.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by xymox

While I agree the leadership here is clueless as to what it takes to grow the tech industry here - I highly disagree with you on that statement. I could take a job in CA and make about what I do here - and have a much lower standard of living. There's no comparison. I certainly couldn't maintain a home for myself and my gf and our children anywhere in the bay area on those wages. If you're single, its slightly a different story. But why make $150k/year and be stuck with crazy income taxes, higher cost of living - including $5000/mth rent for a 1 bd apartment?

The smart people in tech find jobs that pay CA wages but live here and work remotely.

I've been searching for a lot of jobs in Cali. I recently had an interview 3 weeks ago in Goleta for their school district. Unfortunately, I didn't get the position, but it was more than enough to cover that cost increase if had gotten it. Nearly every job in my field that I have applied for or interviewed for in Cali had a pay increase that would have covered the COL difference between Phoenix and California. However, I have 25 years of IT experience and lots of certifications to be able to command a higher wage in Cali.

With that said, I have also seen entry level IT jobs in Cali that are paying around the $23 to $25 per hour range which would be decent here, but way to low for Cali. But again, I have seen those same type of entry level jobs posted here in Phoenix between $15 and $17 per hour which would not be enough to have a much of a life here either without penny pinching.

My point is there are jobs in Cali that cover the COL increase and there are jobs that don't just as there are jobs in Phoenix that cover the COL increase between say Cincinnati and Phoenix and some that don't. When I first moved here, I wasn't prepared for the COL increase and I was struggling. I would imagine Cali as being the same way. It's just a matter of finding the right job and proving your worth.

[combusean]

This notion that you get a better deal in Arizona is inaccurate at best.

I made mid 100s in Palo Alto doing devops at a decacorn before they imploded due to poor management. Had stock options not become worthless I had fantasies of retiring a multimillionaire but I have plenty of time still to do this. Nobody strikes it rich in AZ.

So that compares to $110k in Phoenix, but I'd have to
- go back to the heat
- have to have a car again
- get hired in a notoriously picky field
- probably live somewhere intolerably awful like North Scottsdale where a fair number of jobs were to have a reasonable commute which is hella expensive. I lived in downtown Phoenix and was 20 miles+ from every job that I had to turn down because they were steps backward in my career before I left. Screw that.
- invariably be stuck at that job for life and watch my career stagnate as there are an absolutely minute quantity of devops jobs in Phoenix. I get every recruiter in the country hitting me up for work and my email does not lie.

The income taxes are around 8% in California vs 2% in Arizona. That $11k is EASILY made up by the higher salary. The $10k difference in housing, utility, and transportation costs vs the Bay Area is also made up by the higher salary.

$5k a month for a one bedroom? What? $3k in San Jose, $3500 in Oakland, or $4200 in SF for the most luxurious one-bedroom money can rent. That's $1300 in Scottsdale but then you add on electric and transportation.

And at the end of the day I'm near the ocean, snowboarding (I picked that up here), trees, coastal forests (also picked up distance hiking here), culture and things to do that involve more than daydrinking, public transit (I hate driving), walk scores, etc--almost none of which exists in AZ.

In fact, you couldn't pay me enough to move back to AZ.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by combusean

This notion that you get a better deal in Arizona is inaccurate at best.

I made mid 100s in Palo Alto doing devops at a decacorn before they imploded due to poor management. Had stock options not become worthless I had fantasies of retiring a multimillionaire but I have plenty of time still to do this. Nobody strikes it rich in AZ.

So that compares to $110k in Phoenix, but I'd have to
- go back to the heat
- have to have a car again
- get hired in a notoriously picky field
- probably live somewhere intolerably awful like North Scottsdale where a fair number of jobs were to have a reasonable commute which is hella expensive. I lived in downtown Phoenix and was 20 miles+ from every job that I had to turn down because they were steps backward in my career before I left. Screw that.
- invariably be stuck at that job for life and watch my career stagnate as there are an absolutely minute quantity of devops jobs in Phoenix. I get every recruiter in the country hitting me up for work and my email does not lie.

The income taxes are around 8% in California vs 2% in Arizona. That $11k is EASILY made up by the higher salary. The $10k difference in housing, utility, and transportation costs vs the Bay Area is also made up by the higher salary.

$5k a month for a one bedroom? What? $3k in San Jose, $3500 in Oakland, or $4200 in SF for the most luxurious one-bedroom money can rent. That's $1300 in Scottsdale but then you add on electric and transportation.

And at the end of the day I'm near the ocean, snowboarding (I picked that up here), trees, coastal forests (also picked up distance hiking here), culture and things to do that involve more than daydrinking, public transit (I hate driving), walk scores, etc--almost none of which exists in AZ.

In fact, you couldn't pay me enough to move back to AZ.

Cool, maybe you are in a field that is very specifically centered on the Bay Area. That’s isn’t indicative of your average person at all.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Cool, maybe you are in a field that is very specifically centered on the Bay Area. That’s isn’t indicative of your average person at all.

I am. I should have clarified i was responding to xymox's points about tech workers.

But the thing is I picked up this field when I moved here after being a garden variety web programmer. I fell into this role for better or worse--it is still hard to find good fits.

The most important part of my continued residence here is that the Bay Area offers near infinitely more economic opportunity and career growth than AZ. A buddy of mine from AZ are in agreement--moving here was the best decision of our lives.

I wish I could have done it under better circumstances than being fired by an asshole for no fault of my own, turning down jobs elsewhere, and watching my savings dwindle before I made a ballsy decision.

Cool bosses are more common here too fwiw.