1842 King St E (Brock U Campus Redevelopment) | 44.2 m | 4 x 12 fl | Proposed

[Innsertnamehere]

ZAC-21-021

4 12-storey multiple dwellings and four 4-storey stacked tonhouses containing 10 units each totalling 1407 residential units and 1688 underground parking spaces

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

They're really building 281 more parking spaces than units? Jeez...

Exciting news, there's not many developments in my part of town. Can't wait for the renderings.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by ShavedParmesanCheese

They're really building 281 more parking spaces than units? Jeez...

Exciting news, there's not many developments in my part of town. Can't wait for the renderings.

Holy shit! This city really needs to do like many other cities are doing an institute a parking maximum. I plan to delegate against the number of parking spots.

[ScreamingViking]

At least they're underground.

Probably expecting a number of multi-car households. So hopefully the mix of dwellings contains a lot more 2- and 3-bedroom units.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

I suppose it's better if they don't interfere with the streetscape. The last thing this part of town needs is more people driving.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

At least they're underground.

Probably expecting a number of multi-car households. So hopefully the mix of dwellings contains a lot more 2- and 3-bedroom units.

My problem is three fold:

1) If we want these areas of the city to thrive, we need people within walking distance to add vibrancy and demand to the area. By having every single owner have a car you encourage people to drive to where things already exist.

2) This location has many things within walking distance that are required. It has two banks, one 20m from the property and another 160m. It has a pharmacy 120m from the property, grocery within 150m from the property. It has a dentist 300m from the property, doctor within 550m. Montgomery park is 800m from the property, and the escarpment rail trail and RHV trail both within 1000m. Elementary school is a 10 minute walk, and secondary school is 15 minutes. Gage is a 5 minute bicycle ride along Lawrence Rd.

3) We understand now that car parking is expensive. At $40,000 per spot, the parking development will cost $67.5 million alone. Not to mention the climate emergency, and the idea of building 15 minute walkable cities. This number of vehicles will surely add traffic as well. I know many times NIMBYs complain about traffic, but there's just zero way 1688 cars adds no noticeable traffic.

[lachlanholmes]

Full details were just uploaded to the Urban Solutions microsite for the project.

New Horizon is the developer. Graziani + Corazza is unfortunately the architect. Height is 44.2 metres.

[Innsertnamehere]

Ugh. Terrible. They need a new public park here and probably a new north-south public road.

[johnnyhamont]

nice! Looks to be 4x14 stories incl MP. Any idea how many units?

[HamiltonPlanning]

Originally Posted by johnnyhamont

nice! Looks to be 4x14 stories incl MP. Any idea how many units?

1,407 Units

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Ugh. Terrible. They need a new public park here and probably a new north-south public road.

They have 4 small "pedestrian" sections, and tons of driveway, when driveway could be significantly reduced and pedestrian areas could be combined to make a real Park area.

Zero commercial and plenty of spots where cars cross potential pedestrian walking.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Well, another development for the "eh, better than nothing" pile...

[TheRitsman]

As I mentioned I will be doing a write up to comment on this development. I do think being so close to an LRT stop (something mentioned in the proposal docs) this shouldn't be so car oriented. The area also could use more commercial. I'm supportive of the height, but not much else.

If anyone is interested in joining in, let me know. Private Message me.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

As I mentioned I will be doing a write up to comment on this development. I do think being so close to an LRT stop (something mentioned in the proposal docs) this shouldn't be so car oriented. The area also could use more commercial. I'm supportive of the height, but not much else.

If anyone is interested in joining in, let me know. Private Message me.

What are you planning on doing with this write up?

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

What are you planning on doing with this write up?

Seconded. I think I want to get behind this as well.

[TheRitsman]

A few things:

- The set back from King St is not great since King St near the Metro plaza has an existing but frayed streetwall

- King St side should have commercial. Even new apartment buildings with plaza like design have retail units, and this area does not have many vacant retail units

- The site plan with 6 times the asphalt for driving than for parking is a waste of space that could otherwise be used for pedestrians or more condo units

- Long term bicycle parking should be on the first floor, especially considering the proximity to trails, bicycle lanes and Gage Park.

- The pedestrian sections should be connected to make more space for actual use

- There should be less parking spaces (see my post about proximity to walkable and cyclable things.

- This building could even be a bit taller considering proximity to LRT

I will be doing some actual research on the area before submitting comments, and if you have anything to add or disagree with, or you want more information let me know. I honestly am glad the east end is getting development, but this is a terrible development for the spot it's on. It's not the middle of nowhere, it's on King St, walking distance to an LRT stop, and both primary and secondary schools. It shouldn't be this ultra suburban development.

[Innsertnamehere]

This site needs parkland dedication as well - it’s sorely short of it right now. The block needs to be split up a bit more as well, there should probably be a new public street through it.

Agreed on commercial.

This actually isn’t that close to the LRT, the closest LRT station is about a 15 minute walk.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

This site needs parkland dedication as well - it’s sorely short of it right now. The block needs to be split up a bit more as well, there should probably be a new public street through it.

Agreed on commercial.

This actually isn’t that close to the LRT, the closest LRT station is about a 15 minute walk.

The walk is closer to 13 minutes on Google, which uses quite a slow walking speed. The average person walks a bit faster than Google so it could probably be done in 10 minutes. With LRT you'll be about 20 minutes in to downtown. A 30 minute commute isn't bad considering it's a 15 minute drive to downtown during rush hour.

Hamilton also declared a climate emergency and is investing in active transportation. If the city truly believed in both the climate emergency and it's transit and cycling investments it should recognize that we need to move at least some people away from car dependence, especially in an area so walkable.

If a quarter the cars in this development end up downtown, that's 400+ parking spaces that will be filled by this development alone. It's just not sustainable. Whether you, me or others agree, the city declared climate change an existential crisis, and if it means that, then having a car spot ratio >1 isn't acceptable in a development this size.

I'd also like to add that the cost of parking spots is immense. In my old condo many residents had spots they rented out because they had no use for the spot, but were forced to purchase a condo with a $40,000-$60,000 parking, which made up 20% the cost of the unit.

One additional thing: I live downtown, and regularly walk 15 minutes to a bus stop, grocery store, farmers market and other amenities. This development looks like it has to be car oriented because the built environment around it has been changed and altered since it's original construction to be adapted for car use, but the reality is that it is not that different than many more urban areas of the city. This spot has the same walk score as a Oxford and Barton St intersection. This development would likely have a better walk score than most of the downtown if it contained commercial and once the LRT stop is developed. It's also a 3 minute bike ride to the LRT stop.

[Chronamut]

yaay.. rectangles.. god this citys architecture is boring..

[TheRitsman]

Surprised nobody uploaded these from the DRP presentation. I still hate it.