Tim Hortons Field | 40m | ? | Complete

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by Optimist

The stadium is a wonderful opportunity for Hamilton and I love it that it will be smaller and more intimate. Look at the ACC with the Leafs, they could have built an arena that holds about 21,000 like Montreal or actually 25,000 or more but they went smaller, a bit more demand for tickets, a bit cozier feel. .

The reason the ACC is smaller rather than > 20,000 is because it was originally designed for the Raptors only, with the Leafs building their own arena somewhere else. Only after they started building it did the Leafs buy the Raptors and have them play there as well, forcing them to have to redesign the inside of the building to fit a hockey arena after construction already started, which is why it has such a small footprint in general. That coupled with the 40,000 private boxes they put in the arena is why it's a smaller capacity arena.

Your point about intimate venues still stands though, as I think the Argos would have much better attendance if they were in a 30,000 seat football stadium instead of playing inside the cavernous Skydome, which makes it look a lot emptier than it really is.

[Optimist]

Well certainly with the Rogers Centre, I don't find it very good from a spectator viewpoint for either football or baseball although it was designed first as a baseball facility I would say with the sloping of the seats in the first level. The old bowl design leaves fans too far away for either sport though, I certainly prefer IWS even as it is now for watching a game live rather the the RC.

[CaptainKirk]

Originally Posted by Optimist

I'm sure a smart man like Fred Eisenberger wouldn't have cared less about a new stadium in Hamilton or any "threats" from them to leave.

Come on Earl, he knew the threats were empty. The Tiger-Cats had no place to go. They were bluffing, plain and simple. Council let the city down.

And now, after all the contention, the current IWS site is now good enough for the Tiger-Cats to be financially sustainable?

So now none of the highway visibility, driveway to driveway, large parking lots are necessary after all? Come on!

You're right. Fred is a smart man.

He was right all along.

[Optimist]

Sure the Cats might have been bluffing, I don't know, I wasn't involved so don't know except what might appear on the surface. This is one of the first times though Hamilton city council has had to deal with a TigerCats owner who actually has some money and smarts as well and is tough as nails. They weren't used to that, Fred certainly wasn't. When asked if he had a bad relationship with Fred, Scott Mitchell mentioned in the media no, in fact he had no relationship with him. That tells volumes. Fred should have known better but Fred wanted to bully the Cats and bully Scott Mitchell, himself a bully I'll admit. It was about egos here on both sides, powerful people. In the end, what was the truth? Who knows.

At any rate, as I say, I love the IWS regardless of the games that were played by the city, Cats etc. so I'm fine. At least the FF money is going to a part of Hamilton that can use it.

I do agree though that it would have been interesting if Fred was re-elected if he had of kept forcing the West Harbour what would have happened. My guess, the Cats would have gone there. Lots of bullying in this process. Who would have thought the Cats would have an owner who actually has some money in his pocket compared with many of the previous owners of the Cats who didn't have the resources of a Bob Young. I can understand why some people don't like him, a Cat owner with balls and some resources to back it up. Got under some peoples skins. I liked that. But unfortunately for Fred, and I do respect his smarts, it probably cost him the mayorship. Fight till the end sometimes is the way it goes with boys out there. I think both Fred and Bob Young learned something in this process with the difference being Fred was in a position to keep his position needing be reelected by the citizens. Bob Young, on the other hand, didn't and still doesn't have to worry about that, the only way people can vote agains't him if they don't like him is to bad mouth the team or him and not purchase tickets. And that is fine, he's a grown-up and can take it, as we know.

But I'm just a fan, thank goodness, who loves the Cats and IWS and it's location and don't really care much about other stuff in all of this politics about stadiums etc, just like going to the games with my wife and watching Canadian football on television. I'm a simple man, which has it's merits at times!

[CaptainKirk]

Originally Posted by Optimist

But I'm just a fan, thank goodness, who loves the Cats and IWS and it's location and don't really care much about other stuff in all of this politics about stadiums etc, just like going to the games with my wife and watching Canadian football on television. I'm a simple man, which has it's merits at times!

But I'm more than just a fan, thank goodness, who loves the city and the Cats and really do care much about other stuff in all of this city building and stadiums etc, just like going all over the city, and especially a nice downtown and to the games with my friends and family and watching Canadian football on television. I'm a simple man, which has it's merits at times!

[Optimist]

Good one Captain!

[markbarbera]

Former Mayor Eisenberger got three basic things wrong on the Pan American stadium file:

1. Repeatedly putting up roadblocks to having a fair and objective study of all potential site locations thereby preventing suitable locations from being considered from day one

2. Promoting the wrong-headed notion that WH lands needed a publicly funded mega-project because it will be too expensive for private sector redevelopment

3. Misreading a vocal WH lobby effort to have city-wide support, and using the debate as a wedge issue in an attempt to prop up his re-election bid. Eisenberger ended up finishing a distant third in that mayoral race.

[mattgrande]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

2. Promoting the wrong-headed notion that WH lands needed a publicly funded mega-project because it will be too expensive for private sector redevelopment

I think time will tell to see if he's wrong on this front. I think we're a long way off from having private funds redevelop that land.

I tell you what, if there's something being built on that Barton/Tiffany/Stuart block in the next ten years, I'll buy you a beer!

[Optimist]

I certainly have nothing agains't the WH for a stadium, it's simply that it wasn't a big issue for me since the current IWS is fine for me and closer for me since I live in the Red Hill area. My wife and myself go for walks at WH now and enjoy it for peaceful walks. I can appreciate some people who are into going out after games to bars or restaurants on James St. N or Queen St. would have preferred a WH site since they could walk there. For us, my wife and myself, that's not an issue since we generally go back home after games so where the stadium is located isn't a big issue. Either the current IWS location or WH would have been an appropriate use of the FF money I think and I believe this is what the FF committee, if that's the word, approved of for use of the funds.

What I don't understand is how the cost of soil remediation at the Rheem site has been pegged at some $3 - $30 mill I think I was reading. That seems like a very wide range. And it probably scares off people who may wish to develop there. Hopefully this can be pinpointed more accurately so people know what they are getting into for development of these lands.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by markbarbera

Former Mayor Eisenberger got three basic things wrong on the Pan American stadium file:

1. Repeatedly putting up roadblocks to having a fair and objective study of all potential site locations thereby preventing suitable locations from being considered from day one

2. Promoting the wrong-headed notion that WH lands needed a publicly funded mega-project because it will be too expensive for private sector redevelopment

3. Misreading a vocal WH lobby effort to have city-wide support, and using the debate as a wedge issue in an attempt to prop up his re-election bid. Eisenberger ended up finishing a distant third in that mayoral race.

First of all he didn't put up any roadblocks. Council as a whole made decisions and followed the required procedures. Other sites were fully studied and deemed unacceptable. The process had been going on for years.

As for the lands not needing public funding to be developed, I have to agree with mattgrande on this one. Those lands will still be vacant 10 years from now. The setting sail crap that the city and the Ninny's are banking on will be a failure for the same reason all city plans for the area have been a failure. No money, and no private investors willing to be told how to spend their money.

The WH support was real as shown by the polls at the time.

[flar]

Private developers would be all over that WH land, just as soon as somebody spends untold millions to clean it up, and that ugly train yard separating it from the water is moved.

[SteelTown]

The request for proposals stage has closed for short-listed companies to submit bids to design, construct and provide construction term financing for Toronto 2015 Pan/Parapan American Games venues.

The successful project team will be selected and announced in late summer 2012.

[mattgrande]

Does that mean the bidding is closed for all venues? Did they ever find a location for baseball/softball?

[markbarbera]

I don't think it has been finalized, but it looks like it is headed for Brampton. Their council has reopened exploring the opportunity and looks to have private companies lined up to help with funding. Vision is to have multipurpose facility to host cricket and baseball post Pan Am.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by flar

Private developers would be all over that WH land, just as soon as somebody spends untold millions to clean it up, and that ugly train yard separating it from the water is moved.

In that case I would agree. Unfortunately the rail yards aren't going anywhere soon. So there is going to be some open space there for awhile.

[SteelTown]

Bratina is working to relocate that yard elsewhere in Hamilton.

[mattgrande]

I can't imagine where... Kennilworth/Parkdale area, maybe? There's already a small yard there. In a field near Hopkins Survey?

[CaptainKirk]

Originally Posted by mattgrande

I can't imagine where... Kennilworth/Parkdale area, maybe? There's already a small yard there. In a field near Hopkins Survey?

Mayor Bratina had mentioned the old Waxman's site at Centennial and South Service rd, but council voted to change the zoning from industrial to commercial so that WalMart could go in there instead.

[SteelTown]

Think Bratina is looking at a site near Grimsby.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

That would be amazing!

If he can pull that off I might vote for him 2014. That alone would be worth another term.