CHICAGO | General Developments

[Bombardier]

https://www.npr.org/local/309/2019/0...rdable-housing
$335k/unit out of a factory?!? The best current amenity rich highrises are being built for less in today's dollars. These guys seem to have a lot of marketing power behind the prefab idea, but can it really work in Chicago using union labor in a local factory? I'd be surprised if they can ever get this to actually pencil out. Now if they were building with non-union labor or got major union concessions for factory work, that would be a different story. Anyone on the board familiar with the affordable housing market know how much one should spend to build affordable housing to have it make financial sense? My complete guess without any backup would be at least 20% - 30% less than this. Interested to hear from others who are more familiar with putting these kinds of deals together.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by Via Chicago

1971

https://www.chicagoautoshow.com/asse...k%20Place1.JPG

Not to nitpick, but based on those cars in the foreground this is more like mid 80s than 1971. I'm probably the only one that cares though so nevermind.

[Chi-Sky21]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I'm furious about this. And also puzzled. Who thinks this is a good idea? Sounds like they're just replacing one building with another, so there's no significant gain in square footage. There might even be a drop in square footage, Lakeside is vast and the air space over King Drive is not.

Somehow we're all expected to buck up for this? What do we even get out of it? If the convention center remains the same size or shrinks, then there is zero spillover benefit to hotels, businesses or the Chicago economy. $600M in new tax revenue could build an entire citywide network of BRT lanes, or plenty of other revolutionary investments. Instead we have to shovel more money into this unionized gravy train.

I'm also worried there is zero thought - and zero money - for what actually replaces Lakeside Center. "Open space" is a worthless concept, tell me specifically what that land will be used for, and it better not be Bears tailgating. Is McPier going to design and build the replacement park and turn it over to the Park District? Will we get a new world-class public space out of the deal, or just more useless grassy lawns? I'm also worried that the new building over King Drive will ruin the design of the existing convention center, and turn King Drive (one of our grandest boulevards) into an ugly, dank tunnel while totally destroying the campus feel.

The reality is , the convention center buildings do not function well together. They are really pretty far apart and not well laid out. If that can fix this AND return that section of the lake front than it MAY be worth it. Put this together with the proposal for over the tracks nearby this will also then link better with the open sites south of this and spur development most likely. And honestly that is a small section of MLK drive right near the I 55 ramps and parking areas anyways.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Bombardier

https://www.npr.org/local/309/2019/0...rdable-housing
$335k/unit out of a factory?!? The best current amenity rich highrises are being built for less in today's dollars. These guys seem to have a lot of marketing power behind the prefab idea, but can it really work in Chicago using union labor in a local factory? I'd be surprised if they can ever get this to actually pencil out. Now if they were building with non-union labor or got major union concessions for factory work, that would be a different story. Anyone on the board familiar with the affordable housing market know how much one should spend to build affordable housing to have it make financial sense? My complete guess without any backup would be at least 20% - 30% less than this. Interested to hear from others who are more familiar with putting these kinds of deals together.

In Chicago, using tax credits it's about $450k/unit. That's including all soft costs and land acquisition. The cited $335k doesn't sound like much savings.

[nomarandlee]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

The reality is , the convention center buildings do not function well together. They are really pretty far apart and not well laid out. If that can fix this AND return that section of the lake front than it MAY be worth it. Put this together with the proposal for over the tracks nearby this will also then link better with the open sites south of this and spur development most likely. And honestly that is a small section of MLK drive right near the I 55 ramps and parking areas anyways.

Just took a look at the Orlando Complex. It looks even more disjointed with longer distances between buildings than MP.

I actually think the interconnectivity of McCormick Place is pretty good given its size. Are we REALLY losing business due to space at Lakeside Center being east of the main complex? I thought the usage for that building was relatively light anyhow.

As far as the lakefront maybe it will be worth it. It sure as hell would be nice to see some planning if not renders of what the heck they have in mind before they put this not unsubstantial tax on the smaller tavern/restaurant owners. Big shocker, the big sports venues/owners get excluded from this tax.

Spur development to the south? I'm just not seen that. If anything it will just build a heavy wall between the north and south of MP. While MP is already a behemoth that many neighborhood folks aren't likely to roam around I'd agree with ardecila that the campus now has gotten to a point that it is actually pretty well laid out and landscaped. A new building awkwardly squeezing between the south/west buildings will completely deface the shell of the buildings, which I think are pretty nice as far as convention centers go, and make MLK completely dreadful to traverse from end to end. Maybe if one thinks it's also fun to stroll down lower Wacker and Michigan than the prospect may hold appeal. It is no "small segment" though as far as streetscapes go and in fact is the exact opposite.

If there was talk about added a hall added across 55 and east of MLK that also decked over the truck yard then I could get more excited but this plan just seems odd and needlessly expensive.

The more I read about this the more it seems like an utterly disgusting and naked political kickback being rushed with hardly any public overview or debate.

from last week......

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/5/...akeside-center
Bill to demolish part of McCormick Place along lakefront gets labor support
Legislation in Springfield would add a ride-sharing tax and allow for construction of a new building over King Drive.

By Fran Spielman, David Roeder, and Tina Sfondeles May 22,

With just over a week to go in the spring legislative session, Chicago Federation of Labor President Bob Reiter is beating the drum for a plan to demolish the above-ground portion of Lakeside Center, the oldest McCormick Place building, and replace the lost convention space with a new building over Martin Luther King Drive.

......The labor federation is pushing the latest in a seemingly endless parade of McCormick Place expansion bills because of the temporary construction jobs and the permanent convention jobs it would create. The CFL is a part owner of the Chicago Sun-Times.

“McCormick Place has created a lot of jobs for people in the service industry. There’s a ton of jobs down there for Unite Here, for SEIU, for Teamsters. Those are people who live in the real neighborhoods of Chicago,” Reiter said.....

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

Just took a look at the Orlando Complex. It looks even more disjointed with longer distances between buildings than MP

Or Vegas, which is so spread out they had to bring in Elon Musk to build them a people mover.

I don’t see a problem at McCormick that requires $600M of taxpayer money to fix, especially after the last round added convention center hotels #2 and #3 and a sports arena to boot.

[the urban politician]

The most obvious question is, why not just rehab the current lakeside center?

[Chi-Sky21]

nomarandlee i have always thought that spot across 55 east of MLK is where a big replacement building should go too. That connection would be pretty much the same distance as the current. I really do not care if they do it or not. What is there is fine and already built....but having the lakefront open again there would be nice too....600 million nice though?

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

The most obvious question is, why not just rehab the current lakeside center?

Why bother with that? The problem with the building is not just its age but that it's the convention equivalent of the nosebleed section in a stadium only less profitable. On top of being the city's most prolific bird killer. It's had a date with the wrecking ball for ages.

My impression is that they intend to make the South and West buildings into a single contiguous floor space instead of just linking them with the overhead passage.

Which would be fine if the state had unlimited funds, but I'm aghast that they're blowing half a billion to start on a minor nuisance when we have 10,000 more important priorities.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

Which would be fine if the state had unlimited funds, but I'm aghast that they're blowing half a billion to start on a minor nuisance when we have 10,000 more important priorities.

You are aghast that Madigan's pet who ran on a platform of expanding handouts to the pensioners who are bankrupting the state is spending $600 million on a worthless project? Dude, the governor probably has a $600,000,000 donut budget...

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

You are aghast that Madigan's pet who ran on a platform of expanding handouts to the pensioners who are bankrupting the state is spending $600 million on a worthless project? Dude, the governor probably has a $600,000,000 donut budget...

Haha, I prefer a little more circus when it comes to bread and circus boondoggles. Like mothballed high speed rail superstations and never-to-be-used suburban airports. Something instagrammable. This McCormick Place scheme is both expensive and boring.

Oh well, I suppose I can look forward to Lakeside being demolished.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I'm furious about this. And also puzzled. Who thinks this is a good idea? Sounds like they're just replacing one building with another, so there's no significant gain in square footage. There might even be a drop in square footage, Lakeside is vast and the air space over King Drive is not.

Somehow we're all expected to buck up for this? What do we even get out of it? If the convention center remains the same size or shrinks, then there is zero spillover benefit to hotels, businesses or the Chicago economy. $600M in new tax revenue could build an entire citywide network of BRT lanes, or plenty of other revolutionary investments. Instead we have to shovel more money into this unionized gravy train.

I'm also worried there is zero thought - and zero money - for what actually replaces Lakeside Center. "Open space" is a worthless concept, tell me specifically what that land will be used for, and it better not be Bears tailgating. Is McPier going to design and build the replacement park and turn it over to the Park District? Will we get a new world-class public space out of the deal, or just more useless grassy lawns? I'm also worried that the new building over King Drive will ruin the design of the existing convention center, and turn King Drive (one of our grandest boulevards) into an ugly, dank tunnel while totally destroying the campus feel.

This +1.
If there's $600m in tax revenue that can be raised, how is this possibility a priority to spend it on? Can McPier point to a single convention that has said, "yeah we'd love to come to Chicago, but man, that Lakeside Center and the lack of a building over MLK just really leave us uninspired so we're gonna go elsewhere."

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I can't find anything about this... presumably they are building under the approved PD from 2012? That was about to expire, but there is a letter from last year in the PD file authorizing a one year extension until late July of this year.

So it's time for them to shit or get off the pot... I doubt Sigcho-Lopez will authorize further extensions unless the developer agrees to comply with the latest version of the ARO or even the unofficial 30% affordable standard for Pilsen developments.

i drive past this site every day and there is certainly no sign of activity there. The approved PD calls for a pretty crappy site plan with a parking-heavy midrise on the south half and a drive-thru bank on the north. Ugh. Even a strip mall with a convenience store would be vastly better than a bank, since it would actually provide amenities to the neighborhood... but there's no way anyone will approve a business that sells package liquor so close to the CHA housing and multiple schools.

I found some more info about the Flats project at 15th/Blue Island... the new development will indeed nix the drive-thru bank and replace it with some walkable 1-story corner retail and some private outdoor space (dog run, pool deck etc). The midrise itself will also include a retail space, and finally treat Blue Island like a legitimate commerical corridor. Since this is a FLATS development, there's a good chance they bring a Heritage Coffee into one of the retail spaces. The other retail space will have some dedicated parking in back as well, so IMO it stands a decent chance of getting a tenant.

Big urbanist win over the previous scheme, even if the height was downgraded from 12 to 7 stories. I'm glad, since I'm about to move in across the street and it's kind of a weird urban renewal no-mans-land right now....

Best part, this was filed as a minor change to the existing PD for the site, so there's no way for Sigcho to get his claws in it. I think with Lightfoot's new anti-prerogative measures, they might even be able to extend the PD again in 2020 without Sigcho's permission.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I found some more info about the Flats project at 15th/Blue Island... the new development will indeed nix the drive-thru bank and replace it with some walkable 1-story corner retail and some private outdoor space (dog run, pool deck etc). The midrise itself will also include a retail space, and finally treat Blue Island like a legitimate commerical corridor. Since this is a FLATS development, there's a good chance they bring a Heritage Coffee into one of the retail spaces. The other retail space will have some dedicated parking in back as well, so IMO it stands a decent chance of getting a tenant.

Big urbanist win over the previous scheme, even if the height was downgraded from 12 to 7 stories. I'm glad, since I'm about to move in across the street....

Best part, this was filed as a minor change to the existing PD for the site, so there's no way for Sigcho to get his claws in it. I think with Lightfoot's new anti-prerogative measures, they might even be able to extend the PD again in 2020 without Sigcho's permission.

Great news, I've been waiting for that lot to get developed for a long time

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

This +1.
If there's $600m in tax revenue that can be raised, how is this possibility a priority to spend it on? Can McPier point to a single convention that has said, "yeah we'd love to come to Chicago, but man, that Lakeside Center and the lack of a building over MLK just really leave us uninspired so we're gonna go elsewhere."

If we have $600 MM to spend, why not spend it on the Discovery Partners Institute? JB has been weirdly lukewarm to that for a long time.

Ramming this McCormick Project through really smells of some old school corruption.....

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

This +1.
If there's $600m in tax revenue that can be raised, how is this possibility a priority to spend it on? Can McPier point to a single convention that has said, "yeah we'd love to come to Chicago, but man, that Lakeside Center and the lack of a building over MLK just really leave us uninspired so we're gonna go elsewhere."

Alright Lori!

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg...k-place-revamp

Mayor Lori Lightfoot has come out against a legislative plan to expand McCormick Place by hitting areas as much as 10 miles away from the convention center with a 1 percent tax on restaurants, bars, and take-out food items.

[aaron38]

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

This +1.
If there's $600m in tax revenue that can be raised, how is this possibility a priority to spend it on? Can McPier point to a single convention that has said, "yeah we'd love to come to Chicago, but man, that Lakeside Center and the lack of a building over MLK just really leave us uninspired so we're gonna go elsewhere."

The last convention I went to at McCormick, I was told by several people that coming to Chicago is insanely expensive, the sales aren't that great, but they feel they have to come, because Chicago is a 'premier city'. But if this city and state keep making it ever more expensive, for new facilities no one is asking for, don't be surprised if it starts sitting empty.

Sounds like Lori gets it.

[ChiHi]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

The most obvious question is, why not just rehab the current lakeside center?

Because it's Chicago. Our motto here is demolish everything and renovate nothing. Chicago is always big on ideas when it involves someone elses money so just tack on another special purpose tax for the next 30+ years. Not really sure how many conventions or trade shows have turned down Chicago because they didn't like this building. Yes it's underutilized and run down but it seems like that's more on purpose by the city just so they can sell building a new building.

[Handro]

Originally Posted by aaron38

The last convention I went to at McCormick, I was told by several people that coming to Chicago is insanely expensive, the sales aren't that great, but they feel they have to come, because Chicago is a 'premier city'. But if this city and state keep making it ever more expensive, for new facilities no one is asking for, don't be surprised if it starts sitting empty.

Sounds like Lori gets it.

Exactly. Chicago definitely isn't the most expensive city to live in, but I would not be surprised if it is among the most expensive to visit. Which is not a good thing when you're battling for more tourism and to expand the city's cultural reach.

I don't have to pay New York rent, but a night out there doesn't seem out of whack with a night out here.

[KWillChicago]

Interesting article from curbed on how chicago neighborhood's got their names.

https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/5/30...ot-their-names