Development Rumours

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

True.

Also, does anyone have any news about the old HMV space?

By this fall, that place will be empty for TWO YEARS.

TWO YEARS. A central street front property on the busiest street east of Montreal. That is insane. How is it not rented?

Someone should start picketing outside Colliers International's office, to reduce the rent or lift a finger, to get the goddamned thing rented.

Greedy landlords.

Pretty much. A client expressed some interest in that space and the price quoted was absurd. They never asked for a follow-up.

[worldlyhaligonian]

H&M would make a killing in there, regardless of floor space.

Dal girls alone picking up minor pieces/accessories would make it profitable.

The rent must be through the roof.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

H&M would make a killing in there, regardless of floor space.

Dal girls alone picking up minor pieces/accessories would make it profitable.

The rent must be through the roof.

They obviously thought otherwise and went to Micmac Mall ; no beggars, indoors, parking, clustering. The rents on the street have driven out local businesses.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Colin May

They obviously thought otherwise and went to Micmac Mall ; no beggars, indoors, parking, clustering. The rents on the street have driven out local businesses.

H&M deals with all of those problems in their urban locations across the country and around the world.

The problem is systemic: (1) ludicrous property valuations downtown and thus property taxes downtown and (2) landlords / owners, seeking outrageous rents. But (2) is a bit of a product of (1).

Businesses will always pay heavy taxes downtown, because property there is worth more, but the calculus that a biz like H&M would use to decide, would change if there was even more foot traffic, and a more urban crowd they'd want to reach downtown. We could do that with more residential development downtown. We have some good residential coming online, but we could do more.

If the City had any foresight, they could seriously promote downtown renaissance by implementing lower taxes downtown. Philadelphia, before this tax abatement for residential development, sounded a lot like Halifax-- decades of population decline:

"Tax Breaks Drive a Philadelphia Boom"

AFTER years of losing population, the downtown region, known as Center City, is booming, with developments going up and old buildings being transformed into lofts and condominiums.

The construction, fueled by tax breaks, has succeeded in halting the city's 40-year population decline. Center City, which has the nation's third largest downtown residential population, behind New York and Chicago, is experiencing its fifth straight year of increased housing starts, both new and rehabilitated units. Center City's population grew to 88,000 by the end of 2005 from 78,000 in 2000. Even more striking, the number of households rose by 24 percent, according to figures compiled by the Center City District, a business-improvement group.

[...]

That downtown Philadelphia has been experiencing a residential boom is no big surprise. Cities across the country have benefited from the real estate development frenzy of the last few years. But the changes have been accelerated here by the use of tax breaks for residential developments. Philadelphia is one of the only places to offer a citywide 10-year tax-abatement program

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/08/re...pagewanted=all

[OldDartmouthMark]

Noticed a development proposal sign at the Traveller's Motel site on the Bedford Highway. It's been closed for a few months now, so I suppose it's inevitable that the site will be developed. Is there a thread here that I missed about it?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Noticed a development proposal sign at the Traveller's Motel site on the Bedford Highway. It's been closed for a few months now, so I suppose it's inevitable that the site will be developed. Is there a thread here that I missed about it?

Here is a link to the proposal - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/Appli...206Details.php. It appears as though the motel units are being converted to commercial units.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Here is a link to the proposal - http://www.halifax.ca/planning/Appli...206Details.php. It appears as though the motel units are being converted to commercial units.

Thanks for that. Looks like they are planning to turn both motels into some sort of strip mall? With all the empty stores in Sunnyside and Bedford Place, I didn't think there was that kind of need for more retail space in Bedford, but I guess we'll see what happens.

I'm thinking that since they are planning to simply modify existing structures, the cost in will be much less than building new, plus the change in zoning keeps their options open to use the land for something bigger in the future? Just speculating as I have no evidence that such a strategy is in place.

On a personal note, I'll be a little sad to see these motels which date back to the 1950s be changed so significantly, but that's just me being sentimental.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Thanks for that. Looks like they are planning to turn both motels into some sort of strip mall? With all the empty stores in Sunnyside and Bedford Place, I didn't think there was that kind of need for more retail space in Bedford, but I guess we'll see what happens.

I'm thinking that since they are planning to simply modify existing structures, the cost in will be much less than building new, plus the change in zoning keeps their options open to use the land for something bigger in the future? Just speculating as I have no evidence that such a strategy is in place.

On a personal note, I'll be a little sad to see these motels which date back to the 1950s be changed so significantly, but that's just me being sentimental.

Nah. There's still plenty more businesses downtown these crappy suburban retail locations can lure or kill off.

[halifaxboyns]

Wow, I'm sad to see such a poor use of this site. Wow...this is a really poorly thought out design. If only I had a few million $ in my back pocket - I always thought these would go mixed use to be honest. So close to a potential fast ferry location - they could've been forced to build the curb/sidewalk on the Bedford Highway and then do retail/local commercial at grade and up to about 8 stories of residential. What a waste...

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

On a personal note, I'll be a little sad to see these motels which date back to the 1950s be changed so significantly, but that's just me being sentimental.

I sort of feel the same way. Both of those are remnants of the era when the Bedford Highway was the main route into Halifax, pre-Bicentennial Drive/102. I never visited either place, but I always thought the Esquire Motel was an iconic 1950s design. You would almost think they could have exploited that as a sort of throwback attraction today. When I was a kid, the large neon sign out front had a massive "Quality Courts" logo in the circle part of the sign. When Quality Inns no longer was affiliated with the place, that changed.

[dtown]

over the long weekend a big section of the food court at scotia square was blocked off, and a lot of noise was being made there today. anyone hear of anything going in here? must be more than a new food court vendor to have such a large section blocked out.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I sort of feel the same way. Both of those are remnants of the era when the Bedford Highway was the main route into Halifax, pre-Bicentennial Drive/102. I never visited either place, but I always thought the Esquire Motel was an iconic 1950s design. You would almost think they could have exploited that as a sort of throwback attraction today. When I was a kid, the large neon sign out front had a massive "Quality Courts" logo in the circle part of the sign. When Quality Inns no longer was affiliated with the place, that changed.

I remember way back to when they were built, not the cabins up the hill but the motel. I too always wanted to stay there just to see what they were like. I did for one nite while I was waiting for my apartment on Larry Uteck. Yes they were well past their best before date.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I sort of feel the same way. Both of those are remnants of the era when the Bedford Highway was the main route into Halifax, pre-Bicentennial Drive/102. I never visited either place, but I always thought the Esquire Motel was an iconic 1950s design. You would almost think they could have exploited that as a sort of throwback attraction today. When I was a kid, the large neon sign out front had a massive "Quality Courts" logo in the circle part of the sign. When Quality Inns no longer was affiliated with the place, that changed.

I have to admit I felt a pang of loss when the original neon Esquire sign became mangled in Hurricane Juan. I never looked closely at the carnage, but I assume years of internal degradation made the sign simply unable to stand up to those kind of gusts. Too bad...

An article in The Coast about it:
http://www.thecoast.ca/halifax/motel...nt?oid=4086495

[hoser111]

Originally Posted by dtown

over the long weekend a big section of the food court at scotia square was blocked off, and a lot of noise was being made there today. anyone hear of anything going in here? must be more than a new food court vendor to have such a large section blocked out.

I wonder if they're going ahead with this?

http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/drc/...1130411drc.pdf

[dtown]

Actually heard today that it's 3 food vendors. Including a subway

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by dtown

Actually heard today that it's 3 food vendors. Including a subway

ZZZzzzzz...

[halifaxboyns]

"Tax Breaks Drive a Philadelphia Boom"

AFTER years of losing population, the downtown region, known as Center City, is booming, with developments going up and old buildings being transformed into lofts and condominiums.

The construction, fueled by tax breaks, has succeeded in halting the city's 40-year population decline. Center City, which has the nation's third largest downtown residential population, behind New York and Chicago, is experiencing its fifth straight year of increased housing starts, both new and rehabilitated units. Center City's population grew to 88,000 by the end of 2005 from 78,000 in 2000. Even more striking, the number of households rose by 24 percent, according to figures compiled by the Center City District, a business-improvement group.

[...]

That downtown Philadelphia has been experiencing a residential boom is no big surprise. Cities across the country have benefited from the real estate development frenzy of the last few years. But the changes have been accelerated here by the use of tax breaks for residential developments. Philadelphia is one of the only places to offer a citywide 10-year tax-abatement program

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/08/re...pagewanted=all

Counterfactual > that's a great quote. Keep it in the back of your head and tuck it away until October. There will be an event in Halifax where this may be an interesting comment to make. I won't say anything more than that - other than to say I'm excited to be arranging it, it will be open to the public and it should be fun.

[someone123]

An ultra-secret source tonight reported on the future of the Dennis Building. The Internal Services Minister, Labi Kousoulis, was quoted about the future of the building. It sounds like they are considering demolition but also saving the stones from the facade.

It's good to hear that the provincial government is somewhat aware of the importance of the character of George Street and the Province House area, but disassembling the Dennis Building and storing it in a warehouse sounds like a way to get another big empty hole for 20+ years.

Apparently they don't want to sell the land because it's right next to Province House, but they're also not sure what to do with it. Sigh.

Most of the really bad sites downtown like the lot behind the Dennis Building or NFB Building exist only because of government interference. Most of the privately-owned sites on the other hand tend to get built on pretty quickly.

[xanaxanax]

Originally Posted by someone123

An ultra-secret source tonight reported on the future of the Dennis Building. The Internal Services Minister, Labi Kousoulis, was quoted about the future of the building. It sounds like they are considering demolition but also saving the stones from the facade.

It's good to hear that the provincial government is somewhat aware of the importance of the character of George Street and the Province House area, but disassembling the Dennis Building and storing it in a warehouse sounds like a way to get another big empty hole for 20+ years.

Apparently they don't want to sell the land because it's right next to Province House, but they're also not sure what to do with it. Sigh.

Most of the really bad sites downtown like the lot behind the Dennis Building or NFB Building exist only because of government interference. Most of the privately-owned sites on the other hand tend to get built on pretty quickly.

I thought there's been a lot of discussion with private developers and Wayne Mason about the Dennis Building and the lot beside it recently about developing that lot and preserving the Dennis building

[someone123]

Originally Posted by xanaxanax

I thought there's been a lot of discussion with private developers and Wayne Mason about the Dennis Building and the lot beside it recently about developing that lot and preserving the Dennis building

A good development on this site would make a huge difference for the downtown.

I hope I'm wrong, but the lack of progress with this site and the complaining about paying $50k to heat the building, etc. gives me a pretty terrible feeling about the province's collective view of the situation. They're still operating a parking lot across the street on some of the most valuable and culturally significant land in the province.

In the past another comment has been that the province can't compete with private landlords, so if an office building does go in on Barrington Street in 2030 then the street will at best get an Access NS if it is lucky. One block over, this has already happened in the former Eaton's building, which arguably has the nicest retail storefront space on the street.

My fear is that they are accounting for easy-to-calculate dollar costs while ignoring much larger opportunity costs. There's a cost to keeping prime land empty. You see less development and therefore lower tax revenues. The empty lots drive down the desirability of the area, hurting nearby businesses and tourism. The empty lots also give residents and visitors alike a negative impression of the city and the province -- an empty building and a parking lot in the middle of the city makes a poor impression, and the province's economic reputation, whether it's justified or not, is already pretty much on life support. Empty storefronts also kill retail areas, even if they are used as office space.