Canadian skylines of the past - Page 162

wave46 · #**3221** Posted **Feb 20, 2021, 4:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 905er

I prefer that view of 1957 St. John's to present day St. John's. The office "towers" that exist there now aren't the most attractive.

They don't work with the skyline because they're monstrosities plunked right where they shouldn't be. Think of Tour Montparnasse in Paris - it's completely wrong for the context it sits in. The scale is wrong, the design is wrong, it's hideous. Its only redeeming value is that it has an observation deck where you don't have to look at it. In La Defense, sure, it works.

St. John's has the same thing going on.

MonkeyRonin · #**3222** Posted **Feb 20, 2021, 4:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Architype

^ The buildings were smaller in scale, with only churches etc. standing out (the faded colours of the photo are also misleading). This is the Nimby's idea of perfection (tiny buildings, no change), resulting in any new construction now having to mostly adhere to this sense of scale. Photos of Vancouver's West End from that era evoke the same comparative reactions to the point of making it totally unrecognisable. In reality modern SJs doesn't actually look smaller in person, but much more impressive.

That's not a great comparison. Vancouver's West End went from being a neighbourhood characterized by detached housing and small apartments to one of mid and high-rise buildings. Whatever one thinks about that change, it's developed in a clearly more urban direction.

Core St. John's on the other hand was starting from a more urban base point to begin with, and hasn't developed in a way that obviously adds to that urbanism. It's actually mostly unchanged from its pre-war self, except for the loss of some fine-grained commercial buildings for clunky, cumbersome mid-rise office buildings like these:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/kzYWZrsVNwFrk3kN6

It's also lost some other old rowhouse areas (like the Central Slum), and almost all new growth in the past 50 years has come in the form of suburban development. The net result is that core St. John's is arguably no more urban now than it was then, and may even be slightly less so.

It's not really a case of NIMBYism so much as it's a case of the city's post-war development just not being good.

SignalHillHiker · #**3223** Posted **Feb 20, 2021, 5:15 PM**

Exactly my impression, Monkey.

Coldrsx · #**3224** Posted **Feb 23, 2021, 3:43 AM**

Edmonton circa 1910 or 11 I believe

Edmonton Archives via https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7RXG79z_WA

Architype · #**3225** Posted **Feb 23, 2021, 3:50 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

That's not a great comparison. Vancouver's West End went from being a neighbourhood characterized by detached housing and small apartments to one of mid and high-rise buildings. Whatever one thinks about that change, it's developed in a clearly more urban direction.

Core St. John's on the other hand was starting from a more urban base point to begin with, and hasn't developed in a way that obviously adds to that urbanism. It's actually mostly unchanged from its pre-war self, except for the loss of some fine-grained commercial buildings for clunky, cumbersome mid-rise office buildings like these:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/kzYWZrsVNwFrk3kN6

It's also lost some other old rowhouse areas (like the Central Slum), and almost all new growth in the past 50 years has come in the form of suburban development. The net result is that core St. John's is arguably no more urban now than it was then, and may even be slightly less so.

It's not really a case of NIMBYism so much as it's a case of the city's post-war development just not being good.

I am saying to not judge too much from comparing simple photographs. (The comparison may have been better for Vancouver's actual downtown instead of a more residential area.) I still find St. John's downtown more urban now than then, and I can remember it in the 70s. However, trends in modern development have taken more away from it's urbanity, in the sense of all major retail being removed from downtown and into the suburban malls and box stores, so it's more about what has been lost than what has been added. A true hollowing out of essential purpose, but not in a real physical sense.

Coldrsx · #**3226** Posted **Feb 23, 2021, 2:41 PM**

Edmonton circa 1914

City of Edmonton Archives via
https://youtu.be/-7RXG79z_WA

Razor · #**3227** Posted **Feb 23, 2021, 3:08 PM**

Not sure if this has been posted before, but I just stumbled on this via a friend's FB post.
A colourized and touched up film of DT Vancouver via a tram ride circa 1907.
Real interesting seeing horses, mom and pop stores, and pedestrians milling about. I must say Vancouver really looked bustling!
And oops, maybe wrong thread..Just noticed the video thread where I should of posted this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFzg...ature=emb_logo

goodgrowth · #**3228** Posted **Feb 23, 2021, 3:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Architype

I am saying to not judge too much from comparing simple photographs. (The comparison may have been better for Vancouver's actual downtown instead of a more residential area.) I still find St. John's downtown more urban now than then, and I can remember it in the 70s. However, trends in modern development have taken more away from it's urbanity, in the sense of all major retail being removed from downtown and into the suburban malls and box stores, so it's more about what has been lost than what has been added. A true hollowing out of essential purpose, but not in a real physical sense.

Downtown St. John's itself isn't very good for modern development. A spiders web of narrow streets and small irregular shaped blocks. It's not like Vancouver which has a typical North American grid.

Also everyone in the "harbour bowl" wants a view of the harbour...so there's NIMBYism on top of the layout challenges.

To me St. John's should set a height limit within the "bowl" and try incremental density without towers.

A lot of the houses downtown have no redeeming quality at all. People slap on some bright paint and think it's some sort of architectural miracle.

If a developer came and even just wanted to demolish a row of some of the old houses and put in new 3 story townhouses....that would be a start to improving downtown imo.

MolsonExport · #**3229** Posted **Feb 23, 2021, 3:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razor

Not sure if this has been posted before, but I just stumbled on this via a friend's FB post.
A colourized and touched up film of DT Vancouver via a tram ride circa 1907.
Real interesting seeing horses, mom and pop stores, and pedestrians milling about. I must say Vancouver really looked bustling!
And oops, maybe wrong thread..Just noticed the video thread where I should of posted this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFzg...ature=emb_logo

really interesting. lots of horse poop, of course.

MolsonExport · #**3230** Posted **Feb 23, 2021, 3:43 PM**

• Video Link

J.OT13 · #**3231** Posted **Feb 23, 2021, 3:50 PM**

Ottawa around... 1974.

https://twitter.com/PaulHoward_IMIT/...95634836606985

Coldrsx · #**3232** Posted **Feb 23, 2021, 4:10 PM**

Love that angle!

Razor · #**3233** Posted **Feb 23, 2021, 4:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

really interesting. lots of horse poop, of course.

Yes, Lots of road apples I'm sure!
While I was watching that video I was expecting an accident to take place any second, but horses, the tram, pedestrians, and even loose dogs seemed to weave in and out of each other's way nonchalantly. Molson, if you were to clear some inbox space, I'll tell you why your post highlighting that Pretenders song 'My City Was Gone" made me choke on my coffee..haha.

Rico Rommheim · #**3234** Posted **Feb 23, 2021, 5:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

• Video Link

Great find, I love it!

Architype · #**3235** Posted **Feb 24, 2021, 2:42 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

Downtown St. John's itself isn't very good for modern development. A spiders web of narrow streets and small irregular shaped blocks. It's not like Vancouver which has a typical North American grid.

Also everyone in the "harbour bowl" wants a view of the harbour...so there's NIMBYism on top of the layout challenges.

To me St. John's should set a height limit within the "bowl" and try incremental density without towers.

A lot of the houses downtown have no redeeming quality at all. People slap on some bright paint and think it's some sort of architectural miracle.

If a developer came and even just wanted to demolish a row of some of the old houses and put in new 3 story townhouses....that would be a start to improving downtown imo.

The ideas about scale and views are long established there, but the assertion was that St. John's looked larger/more urban in the old photos because of the finer grained scale (an optical illusion). I think it looks and feels larger and more urban now, regardless of the scale and design of the existing new buildings, and whether you like them or not. Larger buildings make a place feel larger. St. John's has probably retained more vernacular housing stock than most other Canadian cities, so has done well in this regard. Most of the residential which was torn down were slums. Most (not all) of the larger or newer buildings replaced substandard residential or commercial. Preventing development pushes everything to be less centralized, reducing efficiency and livability, and that's exactly what has happened.

J.OT13 · #**3236** Posted **Feb 26, 2021, 2:30 PM**

A Capital Plan showing Ottawa in the late 40s and presenting the Gréber Plan, which influenced the Ottawa of today (removal of railway tracks and highways).

• Video Link

Rico Rommheim · #**3237** Posted **Feb 27, 2021, 11:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

A Capital Plan showing Ottawa in the late 40s and presenting the Gréber Plan, which influenced the Ottawa of today (removal of railway tracks and highways).

• Video Link

Loved it. Thanks for sharing.

Rico Rommheim · #**3238** Posted **Feb 27, 2021, 11:37 PM**

Olympic village, Montreal 1976

Olympic village, Montreal 1976 by Glen Fairweather, on Flickr

Olympic Stadium, Montreal 1976 by Glen Fairweather, on Flickr

Nicko999 · #**3239** Posted **Feb 28, 2021, 3:20 AM**

Beautiful!

The last of the golden years. The next 2 decades that followed were UGLY.

kwoldtimer · #**3240** Posted **Feb 28, 2021, 2:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

A Capital Plan showing Ottawa in the late 40s and presenting the Gréber Plan, which influenced the Ottawa of today (removal of railway tracks and highways).

• Video Link

Lorne Greene sounding very mid-Atlantic?