Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Ah yeah, Tout le Monde en Parle ! Pretty sure the original show was sometimes funny and pop over here in the 2000s, though it was on weekends, like late on Saturday nights or something, so it wasn't convenient for outgoing people who don't watch too much TV anyway. But it seems there was some jet set atmosphere, much like what they would do on Canal+ back then.
.

Here the show was given a prime time slot: 8 pm on Sunday night.

It basically became a weekly rendez-vous for a lot of people, and the topics and guests were often the focus of discussions at the office on Monday.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mousquet

I think the host of the show, Thierry Ardisson was some sort of a prick that wouldn't really help the French and Quebecers make peace about their regional accents or local expressions...
.

Part of Ardisson's thing is to be the stereotypical arrogant Frenchman or Parisian.

Both hosts have appeared on each other's shows a few times.

Here is an appearance by Ardisson on the show in Montreal:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkzRYjw5kw0

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Part of Ardisson's thing is to be the stereotypical arrogant Frenchman or Parisian.

Yeah, he might even overdo it, like it's awkward.
He's probably some kind of atypical dude, described as a "right-wing anarchist" (uhh, wut? ), that must be quite hard to define.

And he's actually a monarchist! Once, as I was quickly reviewing the monarchist political remains here in France, I found out that he was a friend of this guy:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Alphonse_de_Bourbon

Louis Alphonse de Bourbon (a strange name to bear in contemporary France, like mine is much easier), or Louis XX, the "legitimist" heir of the throne of France!

As a hard-line Republican who believes in meritocracy exclusively, I have a hard time understanding what it means.
But Ardisson is the kind of guy to support his friend who happens to be a wannabe king.

So...

Originally Posted by le calmar

I recall he told a Quebec writer (I think?) to “lose the 17th century accent” or something like that.

It is simply ridiculous that the guy would pretend making fun of any so-called 17th-century accent when he still votes for a medieval king.

Bah, whatever. There are guys like that that make some temporary buzz in the media. They disappear just as they appeared, as trolls.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Yeah, he might even overdo it, like it's awkward.
He's probably some kind of atypical dude, described as a "right-wing anarchist" (uhh, wut? ), that must be quite hard to define.

And he's actually a monarchist! Once, as I was quickly reviewing the monarchist political remains here in France, I found out that he was a friend of this guy:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Alphonse_de_Bourbon

Louis Alphonse de Bourbon (a strange name to bear in contemporary France, like mine is much easier), or Louis XX, the "legitimist" heir of the throne of France!

As a hard-line Republican who believes in meritocracy exclusively, I have a hard time understanding what it means.
But Ardisson is the kind of guy to support his friend who happens to be a wannabe king.

So...



It is simply ridiculous that the guy would pretend making fun of any so-called 17th-century accent when he still votes for a medieval king.

Bah, whatever. There are guys like that that make some temporary buzz in the media. They disappear just as they appeared, as trolls.

LOL. Parisian media types who dress all in black are full of contradictions.

No surprises there!

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by Acajack

LOL. Parisian media types who dress all in black are full of contradictions.

No surprises there!

I never realized that, but now that you mentioned it, I did a quick search on Google image and almost every single picture of him shows him dressed all in black. I am not sure what's the point, but that's weird.

[mousquet]

Hè, n'empêche, les gosses, ça veut dire les enfants, hein.
Vous vous rendez compte de l'incroyable quiproquo ?

Alors si je dis à un pote québecois - oh putain, je te jure, mes gosses me font souffrir...
Le gars va se dire - oh ? ah ouais ? Ce crétin aurait choppé une infection ? Ha ha, la vérole, sans doute...

Hè, faut absolument se mettre d'accord là-dessus. Les gosses, ça signifie les enfants. Juste parce qu'on est majoritaire à le savoir. Je parie qu'en Afrique francophone, les gosses sont les enfants.
Arrêtez avec vos couilles, les gars.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Hè, n'empêche, les gosses, ça veut dire les enfants, hein.
Vous vous rendez compte de l'incroyable quiproquo ?

Alors si je dis à un pote québecois - oh putain, je te jure, mes gosses me font souffrir...
Le gars va se dire - oh ? ah ouais ? Ce crétin aurait choppé une infection ? Ha ha, la vérole, sans doute...

Hè, faut absolument se mettre d'accord là-dessus. Les gosses, ça signifie les enfants. Juste parce qu'on est majoritaire à le savoir. Je parie qu'en Afrique francophone, les gosses sont les enfants.
Arrêtez avec vos couilles, les gars.

Non, vraiment. Ça va.

C'est l'une des premières différences linguistiques "transatlantiques" qu'apprennent les enfants ici.

En fait, beaucoup d'émissions et de films pour enfants sont soit produites ou doublées en France, alors on y parle souvent de "gosses".

Faut pas s'inquiéter pour nous.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I was 6 years old in 1967. I remember it all, the big parades, the centennial train, the building of new rinks, community halls, and other government buildings in celebration of the 100 years since confederation.
My mom and dad were able to build a new house on the farm with actual running water and flush toilets! And to top it off was Expo 67 in Montreal and eventhough my family and I were unable to go there, we were able to watch it all on the television.
There seemed to be nothing that Canada couldn't do at the time (of course I was oblivious to all the underlying issues that were being papered over) and then the FLQ, the election of the PQ, OPEC and all the rest of the things that tripped up Canada. Now it seems like we've kinda given up and have embraced the branch plant mentality (sports and culture wise) that we were so fearful of in the 60's.

adding - I'm in no way singling out Quebec for all the ills of Canada. It just seemed to me that the business exodus from Montreal really changed the face of Canada.

That actually opens up an extremely interesting angle. Would Canada have been more assertive and independent-minded in its identity (cultural or otherwise) had Montreal remained its largest city going forward? (And likely played the dual role of metropolis for French Canada and metropolis for English Canada.)

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That actually opens up an extremely interesting angle. Would Canada have been more assertive and independent-minded in its identity (cultural or otherwise) had Montreal remained its largest city going forward? (And likely played the dual role of metropolis for French Canada and metropolis for English Canada.)

It is an interesting thought experiment. If Montreal had remained the apex city for all of Canada, and if anglophones did view it as their metropolis as much as the francophones do, then I would wager that Montreal would be Canada's New York, and that the city would have been able to fully capitalize on all the momentum of Expo 67 and the Olympics. Montreal would likely now be double it's current size and a true world city.

A Montreal of that calibre would have real influence, and given the historical relationships of Montreal to influential east coast US cities like Boston and New York, a new power dynamic likely would have occurred. Canada might have a lesser branch plant mentality, and might have had more confidence in it's own creativity. We might have been an entirely different country.

And Toronto would have senesced and would now be Canada's Cleveland...…..

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It is an interesting thought experiment. If Montreal had remained the apex city for all of Canada, and if anglophones did view it as their metropolis as much as the francophones do, then I would wager that Montreal would be Canada's New York, and that the city would have been able to fully capitalize on all the momentum of Expo 67 and the Olympics. Montreal would likely now be double it's current size and a true world city.

A Montreal of that calibre would have real influence, and given the historical relationships of Montreal to influential east coast US cities like Boston and New York, a new power dynamic likely would have occurred. Canada might have a lesser branch plant mentality, and might have had more confidence in it's own creativity. We might have been an entirely different country.

And Toronto would have senesced and would now be Canada's Cleveland...…..

It's almost too good a topic to have buried in a sports thread!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's almost too good a topic to have buried in a sports thread!

I agree.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

I can't speak for the rest of the world, but Canada seems like it hit a cultural zenith in the late 1960s and early 1970s. There was a level of enthusiasm which slowly got stripped away after that, and it seems the country hasn't really been able to it back.

I don't know if it's a late 20th century thing or if it's always been that way, but at least in my lifetime the Canadian psyche has always had an extremely strong fear of being behind the times. Of being anachronistic.

You see this in how so many traditional things have been left to fall by the wayside, or even in some cases been collectively euthanized.

BTW, all of this pre-dates the current woke purging that's going on, since as I've said I've been observing it since the 1980s at least. So it's not that the all of the old stuff made people uncomfortable or was cringe-worthy. Except for perhaps the Miss Grey Cup pageant, there isn't anything fundamentally non-PC about the Grey Cup festivities. People still hold Super Bowl parties and Raptors viewing parties today that are not exactly like the Grey Cup antics, but still the same general type of thing.

Tastes and interests change over time in every country, but almost no one seems to kick traditions to the curb like Canadians.

I wonder if this heightened concern about being "with it" isn't related to the little brother complex that comes with being right next to the US.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's almost too good a topic to have buried in a sports thread!

Great idea. Posts moved.

[Acajack]

This is getting a lot of chatter on my other channels which have more cross-Canada representation than this forum - if ya know what I mean.

Immigration consultants post a list of pros and cons of Canada. Among the cons: "A lot of people speak French here"!

Though they do like our poutine and listed it in the pros!

https://thecanadian.news/2021/03/18/...-francophones/

[Zeej]

Originally Posted by Acajack

This is getting a lot of chatter on my other channels which have more cross-Canada representation than this forum - if ya know what I mean.

Immigration consultants post a list of pros and cons of Canada. Among the cons: "A lot of people speak French here"!

Though they do like our poutine and listed it in the pros!

https://thecanadian.news/2021/03/18/...-francophones/

The direct juxtaposition of "A progressive, safe and multicultural country" and "A lot of people here speak French" is truly rich in a so very Canadian way. Difficult not to see at least some validity in the PQ's response.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Hè, n'empêche, les gosses, ça veut dire les enfants, hein.
Vous vous rendez compte de l'incroyable quiproquo ?

Alors si je dis à un pote québecois - oh putain, je te jure, mes gosses me font souffrir...
Le gars va se dire - oh ? ah ouais ? Ce crétin aurait choppé une infection ? Ha ha, la vérole, sans doute...

Hè, faut absolument se mettre d'accord là-dessus. Les gosses, ça signifie les enfants. Juste parce qu'on est majoritaire à le savoir. Je parie qu'en Afrique francophone, les gosses sont les enfants.
Arrêtez avec vos couilles, les gars.

https://youtu.be/V-VbVJ1DkxY?t=182

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Zeej

The direct juxtaposition of "A progressive, safe and multicultural country" and "A lot of people here speak French" is truly rich in a so very Canadian way. Difficult not to see at least some validity in the PQ's response.

Before we get out the pitchforks, let's try to read this with some context.



The bullet point "A lot of people here speak French" probably means "If you speak your mother tongue + English as a second language, be aware that there are areas of the country where your existing language skills do not apply".

If you're a Vancouver-based immigration consultancy, you're probably helping the groups of immigrants who tend to settle in the lower mainland: Chinese, Taiwanese, HK, Koreans, Filipinos, South Asians, etc. In most of these countries, English as a second language instruction ranges from poor but mandatory (similar to French instruction in the ROC) to excellent and instilling fluency (similar to English instruction in the Netherlands). French as a second language is not part of any official curriculum and is pursued as a personal pasttime, similar to people wanting to study Italian here.

Also, a lot of people from Asia are unaware that Canada has a French-speaking region.

This infographic is just alerting them to the fact that, if they should emigrate, they will have more professional luck in Vancouver, Toronto or, frankly, North Battleford, than they will in Chicoutimi or Sorel, if only due to language knowledge.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Before we get out the pitchforks, let's try to read this with some context.

The bullet point "A lot of people here speak French" probably means "If you speak your mother tongue + English as a second language, be aware that there are areas of the country where your existing language skills do not apply".

Pretty much.

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Also, a lot of people from Asia are unaware that Canada has a French-speaking region.

A lot of Asian immigrants I know initially considered Montreal before realizing that they didn't have the language-skills to compete there, thus ending up in Toronto and Vancouver. Not different from most Canadians, frankly.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by JHikka

A lot of Asian immigrants I know initially considered Montreal before realizing that they didn't have the language-skills to compete there, thus ending up in Toronto and Vancouver. Not different from most Canadians, frankly.

Which is why Montreal is no longer really a Canadian mainstream city.

This is OK if this is the direction the Quebec people want to go, but there are consequences to this.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Zeej

The direct juxtaposition of "A progressive, safe and multicultural country" and "A lot of people here speak French" is truly rich in a so very Canadian way. Difficult not to see at least some validity in the PQ's response.

Well, yeah. Cue the classic PQ yarn "This is what we've been telling you about those guys all along!" for the 45,644th time.