HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Manitoba & Saskatchewan


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #241  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2020, 6:02 PM
Danny D Oh Danny D Oh is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ Well that's strange. It certainly speaks to vike's point, though... after all, why would the Ice/50 Below want to build a WHL arena at an inconvenient site like The Rink if they don't have a stake in it?

So I wonder what this means for the Ice/50 Below going forward? Will they look for some other place to put their WHL venue? Just thinking out loud here, but I wonder if they could partner up with an organization that could supply them with land? Either with the U of M which could use an upgrade to its home arena, or maybe with a community centre that has a site to build on? Or would they just buy a parcel of land not quite so far out as The Rink and build there? Or does 50 Below cut their losses and just sell the team to some other rich dude who moves it lock, stock and barrel to Nanaimo or wherever?

As to the MJHL, are these kids playing for the Blues just ponying up big dollars so they can avoid having to move to Swan River or wherever?

The CJHL rights of players dictate where they can play, they don't really have an option. The MJHL has a draft and teams maintain lists of rights they own.

The whole business model of both The Rink and 50 Below is really interesting. If they don't start producing results in terms of NCAA scholarships and NHLers it is going to fall apart rapidly. So far they aren't doing any better at getting guys to the NCAA than 'regular' provincial AAA models and junior teams in Dauphin, Swan River, Portage, OCN, Steinbach etc.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #242  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2020, 1:34 PM
wags_in_the_peg's Avatar
wags_in_the_peg wags_in_the_peg is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 3,218
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ Well that's strange. It certainly speaks to vike's point, though... after all, why would the Ice/50 Below want to build a WHL arena at an inconvenient site like The Rink if they don't have a stake in it?

So I wonder what this means for the Ice/50 Below going forward? Will they look for some other place to put their WHL venue? Just thinking out loud here, but I wonder if they could partner up with an organization that could supply them with land? Either with the U of M which could use an upgrade to its home arena, or maybe with a community centre that has a site to build on? Or would they just buy a parcel of land not quite so far out as The Rink and build there? Or does 50 Below cut their losses and just sell the team to some other rich dude who moves it lock, stock and barrel to Nanaimo or wherever?

As to the MJHL, are these kids playing for the Blues just ponying up big dollars so they can avoid having to move to Swan River or wherever?

Agreed, although they use the Rink ice & training facilities, does their home playing arena need to be there or is close proximity fine (UofM?). MJHL doesnt have a huge draw, they don't need a large seating capacity rink.

And although the Blues & Freeze will both charge big $ to play, whomever owns your rights still need to trade you there. So if little Johnny refuses to play for WayWay or Swan or OCN, they need to trade him to the Winnipeg teams.
__________________
just an ordinary Prairie Boy who loves to be in the loop on what is going on
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #243  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2020, 4:32 PM
CoryB CoryB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,888
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
^ Well that's strange. It certainly speaks to vike's point, though... after all, why would the Ice/50 Below want to build a WHL arena at an inconvenient site like The Rink if they don't have a stake in it?

So I wonder what this means for the Ice/50 Below going forward? Will they look for some other place to put their WHL venue?
Red River Ex has been fairly open on desires to build an arena like venue basically across the street from the Ice Plex. They have a lot of trade shows and having an arena venue would allow them to pursue additional opportunities for large livestock shows that simply do not work in a downtown urban setting. Potentially having a WHL team as a tenant/joint owner of such a facility could make it more viable, pandemic impact not included obviously.

There would also seem to possibly be synergy between having the Moose and Ice share an arena smaller than MTS Centre but larger than the spectator rink at the Ice Plex. The challenge there would be splitting the off-ice revenues from the building. If the sides were willing to work jointly it could be worked out though.

That said if the Rink --> Ice --> NCAA/NHL funnel is a broken relationship the drive to keep the Ice here basically falls apart. That said might the Ice be able to start up a hockey development program to compete with The Rink?

It always felt like the main revenue driver for the Ice program was interested for the top level of the youth hockey development programs and not the general public.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #244  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2020, 4:43 PM
rrskylar's Avatar
rrskylar rrskylar is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WINNIPEG
Posts: 7,641
The whole notion and move of the WHL Ice to Winnipeg was a dubious proposition at the get go having to compete against the NHL, AHL, MJHL etc.

Anyone thinking the govt. will pony up money for a mid sized WHL rink after the COVID expenditures is nuts!~
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #245  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2020, 6:06 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoryB View Post
Red River Ex has been fairly open on desires to build an arena like venue basically across the street from the Ice Plex. They have a lot of trade shows and having an arena venue would allow them to pursue additional opportunities for large livestock shows that simply do not work in a downtown urban setting. Potentially having a WHL team as a tenant/joint owner of such a facility could make it more viable, pandemic impact not included obviously.

There would also seem to possibly be synergy between having the Moose and Ice share an arena smaller than MTS Centre but larger than the spectator rink at the Ice Plex. The challenge there would be splitting the off-ice revenues from the building. If the sides were willing to work jointly it could be worked out though.

That said if the Rink --> Ice --> NCAA/NHL funnel is a broken relationship the drive to keep the Ice here basically falls apart. That said might the Ice be able to start up a hockey development program to compete with The Rink?

It always felt like the main revenue driver for the Ice program was interested for the top level of the youth hockey development programs and not the general public.
That's a good point, a new arena at the Ex really helps out RREA, the Iceplex, and even Assiniboia Downs to some extent. It's certainly a more attractive location for most fans than way out on McGillivray. 50 Below reputedly gets along well with TNSE... I wonder if they can get a deal done? As a fan I would love it if the Ice could settle into a permanent home for the long haul.

Anyway, with a second MJHL team (the Freeze), it seems that 50 Below isn't giving up on their talent pipeline model yet.

And to rrskylar's point, I would expect that a new rink would be a privately funded thing beyond maybe some token government contribution?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #246  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2020, 10:00 PM
Danny D Oh Danny D Oh is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
That's a good point, a new arena at the Ex really helps out RREA, the Iceplex, and even Assiniboia Downs to some extent. It's certainly a more attractive location for most fans than way out on McGillivray. 50 Below reputedly gets along well with TNSE... I wonder if they can get a deal done? As a fan I would love it if the Ice could settle into a permanent home for the long haul.

Anyway, with a second MJHL team (the Freeze), it seems that 50 Below isn't giving up on their talent pipeline model yet.

And to rrskylar's point, I would expect that a new rink would be a privately funded thing beyond maybe some token government contribution?
Shouldn't be hard for a private operator to get financing on another rink of junior A quality. Huge shortage of ice still in the Greater Winnipeg area. If they build another facility with 3 rinks and 1 being a 2000-2500 seat arena they will have that ice booked immediately and beyond that the earlier mentioned need for space for trade shows.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #247  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2020, 11:49 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 13,764
I'm tired of playing at Dutton, West K, and shit rinks like that. Our home rink for beer league was seven oaks last year and it was awesome. Definitely willing to pay a few extra bucks for a nice rink.

Some of the older City rinks provide some nostalgia and are in decent shape. Such as Pioneer. Others are complete shit holes.

Valley Gardens is trying to build a 2 rink plex to replace Terry Sawchuk and potentially River East.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #248  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2020, 11:51 AM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny D Oh View Post
Shouldn't be hard for a private operator to get financing on another rink of junior A quality. Huge shortage of ice still in the Greater Winnipeg area. If they build another facility with 3 rinks and 1 being a 2000-2500 seat arena they will have that ice booked immediately and beyond that the earlier mentioned need for space for trade shows.
But in this case I would imagine 50 Below would be aiming to build something closer to 5,000 seats to accommodate a WHL team, no?

There's a world of difference between a MJHL rink like the Selkirk Rec Centre vs. a WHL building like Mosaic Place.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #249  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2020, 6:09 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg View Post
The ownership of the “The Rink (facility, academy teams, camps) and the owners of 50 Below have had a falling out so they are not associated anymore. The Ice, Blues, new MJHL team are simply tenants at The Rink facility. The Blue and new MJHL team (Freeze?) charge players $10-$15k to train and play for them, other MJHL teams charge $1k-$4k And many charge nothing.
Further to this point, I notice that The Rink's CSSHL team unveiled new jerseys which are just like the old ones, except they pointedly removed the ICE logo from the shoulders and the ICE's light blue trim. I guess the divorce has been finalized.

I find this whole situation so weird considering how joined at the hip the ICE and The Rink were. Without The Rink, the ICE have nothing besides a bunch of jerseys and extra sticks. All they have besides that is a lease for the U of M's arena and a lease for a dressing room and training facility at The Rink. Originally, the ICE was supposed to be the pinnacle of The Rink's programming but that is apparently out the window now.

Unless the 50 Below guys buy The Rink outright, I would think there must be zero chance of a new WHL arena being built at that site.

Considering how close 50 Below and The Rink were and how integral one was to the success of the other, I wonder what came between them?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #250  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2021, 2:25 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
In case anyone missed it, the ICE are back at it in the WHL East bubble in Regina. They lost their first game to Brandon but beat Swift Current last night.

Anyway, it was interesting watching the "home" game vs. Swift Current. Unlike the Brandon game which had all kinds of advertisers, the ICE mostly just advertised their own products on the rinkboards and TV commercials. I find it truly baffling how this team keeps making a go of it in spite of the lack of sponsors.

That said, the games are on the radio... Funny 1290 carries the games along with a pre/post game show hosted by Kevin O, although for ICE coverage they revert to using the station's more dignified call letters of CFRW rather than using the Funny 1290 name.

Still haven't heard even the slightest bit of news about a new arena, although I do note that the Kapyong Barracks development plan includes a new arena on the southeast corner of the site near Taylor Avenue. The plan document even included an illustration of a WHL player. Now that 50 Below has broken things off with The Rink, is it possible that they may have landed a new dance partner? The site of Kenaston and Taylor would be 100% better for WHL hockey than way out near Oak Bluff.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #251  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2021, 2:29 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 13,764
A hockey rink, or event centre, or both had been planned for some time now as part of the Kapyong thing. Pre-dating the split with the Rink. I thought it was just more of a local rink type place. But maybe they can partner with the ICE.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #252  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2021, 5:02 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
The ICE are back in action and they whooped the Wheat Kings twice this weekend. I was at the game in Winnipeg on Saturday and it was a tour de force.

Despite the team's on ice success, there has been total radio silence on the arena front lately. I honestly don't get how they could hope to make the team work without a new rink, I love watching hockey at Wayne Fleming Arena as a fan but from a business standpoint it can't possibly work over the long haul.

That said, with MJHL-calibre Wayne Fleming being so small, I wonder if there is any possibility of the ICE and the U of M tag-teaming on a new facility that meets both of their needs? U Sask has a gorgeous new barn that would be perfect for the Bisons and ICE. Basically take that blueprint and add in a few more private suites, etc. Could you imagine going to games in something like this on the Fort Garry Campus?



Reply With Quote
     
     
  #253  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2021, 6:17 PM
wags_in_the_peg's Avatar
wags_in_the_peg wags_in_the_peg is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 3,218
I’ve heard a proposal of building a WHL rink attached to a local Community Club who already has 2 rinks. Won’t mention the name as it was only a proposal. It would go where 3 ball diamonds are and new home for them would need to be found.
__________________
just an ordinary Prairie Boy who loves to be in the loop on what is going on
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #254  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2021, 6:20 PM
wags_in_the_peg's Avatar
wags_in_the_peg wags_in_the_peg is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 3,218
Ice having Lambos & Savoie & Mcglennon all future NHl’rs should aid in attendance.
__________________
just an ordinary Prairie Boy who loves to be in the loop on what is going on
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #255  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2021, 6:49 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
Quote:
Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg View Post
I’ve heard a proposal of building a WHL rink attached to a local Community Club who already has 2 rinks. Won’t mention the name as it was only a proposal. It would go where 3 ball diamonds are and new home for them would need to be found.
Curious as to how that might work as every community club with indoor rinks I can think of is firmly embedded in residential neighbourhoods where people would go ballistic if you told them there was going to be a 5,000 seat WHL arena under construction across the street from their driveway.

That said, between all the various players in Winnipeg who would be interested in getting a rink built you would think there'd be someone that 50 Below S&E could partner up with to get it done. It's too bad that The Rink plan in the RM of Macdonald fell through as it could have been good provided that the traffic situation was worked out.

Either way they have to get something done if the franchise is going to stay here... I don't know how the ICE can keep going over the long term when you have teams playing in front of thousands of people in big barns while our guys play in front of 800 people at the U of M.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg View Post
Ice having Lambos & Savoie & Mcglennon all future NHl’rs should aid in attendance.
The team is amazing to watch, they are first rate. They look like championship material this season.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #256  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2021, 1:26 AM
wags_in_the_peg's Avatar
wags_in_the_peg wags_in_the_peg is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 3,218
Clue #2 would be that it’s in southeast area with a English high school in same parking lot. I think it’s ridiculous too which is why I don’t think it’s happening.

It’s my son’s “WHL draft year”, he’s a long shot in my opinion, others tell me otherwise, but never know
__________________
just an ordinary Prairie Boy who loves to be in the loop on what is going on
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #257  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2021, 2:21 AM
complex's Avatar
complex complex is offline
Flatlander
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg View Post
Clue #2 would be that it’s in southeast area with a English high school in same parking lot. I think it’s ridiculous too which is why I don’t think it’s happening.

It’s my son’s “WHL draft year”, he’s a long shot in my opinion, others tell me otherwise, but never know

You must be talking about Southdale Community Centre. That seems like a ridiculous location and I can't possibly see them building a large scale arena there.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #258  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2021, 2:20 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
Free Press article this morning confirming what we already knew from this thread:

Plan to build arena for Ice on hold
By: Mike Sawatzky

Quote:
The Winnipeg Ice won’t have a new home anytime soon and will extend their stay at the University of Manitoba's Wayne Fleming Arena for the 2022-23 season and likely beyond.

To date, no plan for the construction of a new arena has been established.

The U of M's director of sport and recreation facilities, Simon Wang, confirmed Friday talks about a lease extension are ongoing.

"And I think there's an appetite from their end," said Wang. "I know that they still have a longer term plan (for an arena) and then certain (things) the WHL requires them to have for their home venue. So we'll see what that might look like and we'll go from there."

Ice owners Greg Fettes, who serves as chairman and governor, and Matt Cockell, the club's president and general manager, have been silent on the subject.

WHL commissioner Ron Robison did not respond to a request for comment.

The Free Press has learned the original plan to develop a parcel of land adjacent to the Rink Hockey Academy in the city's southwest corner for a 4,500-seat arena, retail space and restaurants, has been shelved. That building was to be ready for occupancy at the start of the 2021-22 season.

When the Ice was moved from Cranbrook, B.C., to Winnipeg in the spring of 2019, Fettes and Cockell's company, 50 Below Sports + Entertainment, was partnered with RHA. There has since been a corporate split between RHA and 50 Below. The Ice is now only a tenant at the RHA practice facility while playing games on the U of M campus.

Eighteen months ago, Fettes said the COVID-19 pandemic forced him to reconsider his construction plans.

"We don’t know what the hockey landscape’s going to look like after this," he told the Free Press. "So are we taking a step back and making sure we understand that? Yes, absolutely.

"We’re going to do that but for all intents and purposes we’re still on the same track we were on. We’re doing our best to push forward but we are going to pay attention to see how are we going to be able to play games and how does that affect the type of building we build."

At the time, Fettes said 50 Below would need at least two years to build a new rink and the team would need to spend an additional year at the U of M. The current lease expires at the end of 2021-22.

"We did extend it one year and we can look at extending it further if both parties agree and right now we have a really good working relationship with the Ice and I think it's mutual in that sense," said Wang.

In 2019, the Ice and U of M undertook significant upgrades to the 40-year-old arena to make it suitable as a temporary WHL home. But it remains too small — with a 1,600-seat capacity — and outmoded to serve as a permanent location for the team.

During the pandemic, the building's chiller plant was replaced, but major work on the mechanical systems is still needed. In addition, upgraded dressing room facilities would be required if the Ice are to continue to play at the U of M and perhaps practise there. The Ice currently share dressing rooms with the Bisons men's and women's hockey teams.

"The facility is older and we know that we do need to make some basic infrastructure upgrades in the very near future to continue to operate that as an arena," said Wang. "And then also what other enhancements that might be required from the Winnipeg Ice and the WHL."

mike.sawatzky@freepress.mb.ca
https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sp....html#cxrecs_s

Interestingly, the ICE owners and management haven't commented on any of this since early on in the pandemic when they acknowledged that plans were being reconsidered.

So it sounds like they're signing on for a bare minimum two more seasons at Wayne Fleming assuming that construction starts sometime next year, and I wouldn't necessarily bet on that happening.

You would think the ICE must be bleeding money given that they have all the expenses that every WHL team has but they have a tiny arena that doesn't have luxury suites, etc. Even if a team like Calgary or Edmonton draws poorly on weeknights, they can have a weekend game with 10,000 fans that offsets that...Winnipeg doesn't have that luxury.

But then again, one of my friends is a professional who works for a company associated with the owners and claims that the owners make more than enough money to easily absorb any losses. I guess if they're rich enough that it's no big deal to them personally, then this arrangement can go on indefinitely.

Last edited by esquire; Oct 30, 2021 at 2:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #259  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2021, 5:10 PM
trueviking's Avatar
trueviking trueviking is offline
surely you agree with me
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: winnipeg
Posts: 13,458
Rich people generally don’t like losing money.

Ive heard Kapyong is a possibility. They will likely sniff around to find a public partner. There was no way they were going to make a $60 million investment in an arena for an unproven product in the market.

My bet is they move on after exhausting options to find someone else to bear the risk of a new facility.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #260  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2021, 9:54 PM
esquire's Avatar
esquire esquire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 37,483
If they need a public partner who are the realistic options? U of M? RREX? I'm hard pressed to think of anyone else that might benefit from a 3 to 5 thousand seat arena.

But that said, I think there is an argument to be made for having another decent arena in Winnipeg as a community asset. Most cities our size have a secondary arena capable of hosting larger events, but in Winnipeg it drops right off from NHL rink to barely junior A level barns (Wayne Fleming Arena, St. James Civic Centre, Bell MTS Iceplex).
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Manitoba & Saskatchewan
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:45 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.