[Halifax] Dalhousie University - Bold Ambitions | ? m | ? fl | Vision

[eastcoastal]

That collaborative health building is quite pleasant - It's not a show-stopper, but I like the accenting they did with the coloured masonry, and I'm a fan of the windows.

[Grav]

Originally Posted by Jonovision

20160803_154329 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

20160803_160731 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

This building turned out great. The design is sensitive to the other mid 20th century buildings surrounding it like the tupper and hospital buildings. Its too bad the same couldn't be done with the student union extension. They should have used the same style of stone with concrete to match the existing structure. The non-discript silver glass box is far too sharp of a contrast. They kinda just haphazardly slapped it on the front of the building and it shows!

As for the killam, the building was designed to be an intimidating and ambitious repository of knowledge. Simple concrete facades on the outside, lots of massing while the inner courtyard let light into the building. Its supposed to be internally focused. They weren't concerned with it being "open and airy", "fun" or a cool place to hang out like the new library.that's not what the Beton Brut style is about. It's about clean lines, minimal ornimentation and emphasis on function. I find it sad people can't appreciate these retro buildings for what they are and just want everything to be glassed over to look as if it was built today or outright demolished. They made that mistake a lot in the 60s and 70s and here we are doing it again today with the architecture from those decades. My one critique of the building is the large gravel area on the upper plaza should have been a large reflecting pool. It would have complemented the building in a very neat and abstract way. The Salk institute is a great example of a brutalist asthetic that should be preserved and embraced rather than glass and gardened over.

[Drybrain]

Not only is redoing the Killam a ridiculous betrayal of the original architecture, it's not necessary for any practical purpose. For a university that's jacking up tuitions on the regular, and under fire for reckless spending, I'm not sure why they'd want to undertake such a non-necessary building renovation.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Not only is redoing the Killam a ridiculous betrayal of the original architecture, it's not necessary for any practical purpose. For a university that's jacking up tuitions on the regular, and under fire for reckless spending, I'm not sure why they'd want to undertake such a non-necessary building renovation.

Dalhousie has more money than they know what to do with these days.

[Jonovision]

Originally Posted by Grav

As for the killam, the building was designed to be an intimidating and ambitious repository of knowledge. Simple concrete facades on the outside, lots of massing while the inner courtyard let light into the building. Its supposed to be internally focused. They weren't concerned with it being "open and airy", "fun" or a cool place to hang out like the new library.that's not what the Beton Brut style is about. It's about clean lines, minimal ornimentation and emphasis on function. I find it sad people can't appreciate these retro buildings for what they are and just want everything to be glassed over to look as if it was built today or outright demolished. They made that mistake a lot in the 60s and 70s and here we are doing it again today with the architecture from those decades. My one critique of the building is the large gravel area on the upper plaza should have been a large reflecting pool. It would have complemented the building in a very neat and abstract way. The Salk institute is a great example of a brutalist asthetic that should be preserved and embraced rather than glass and gardened over.

I LOVE the Killiam! It is probably my favorite building at Dalhousie. I garnered a real appreciation for brutalism and concrete architecture while I was there. The one shame is that they completely destroyed the aesthetics of the atrium when they took out the fountain and added that god awful subway.

And while we are on the subject of brutalism and concrete architecture I thought I would just slip this in here. The only tiny bit of redeeming quality of SS.

20160903_092734 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

[lawsond]

Originally Posted by Jonovision

I LOVE the Killiam! It is probably my favorite building at Dalhousie. I garnered a real appreciation for brutalism and concrete architecture while I was there. The one shame is that they completely destroyed the aesthetics of the atrium when they took out the fountain and added that god awful subway.

And while we are on the subject of brutalism and concrete architecture I thought I would just slip this in here. The only tiny bit of redeeming quality of SS.

20160903_092734 by Jonovision23, on Flickr

Agreed. Spare the two concrete towers as they have merit and an aesthetic. From the hotel back, demolish! And build new.

[teddifax]

That could be said for a LOT of the towers built in Halifax in the 60's and 70's!!! Not a lot of fine architecture, just concrete blocks, I hope this won't happen again.

[kwajo]

Agreed, the Killam is one of my favourite buildings in Halifax, and speaking as someone who was a student back before the awful Subway-ification of the atrium, it was always a great place to focus on work and disappear into your studies. Maybe after more time passes it will eventually become appreciated for what it is, but it seems to be a favourite example of those who want to rail against institutional architecture or excess.

[fenwick16]

I have to agree on the Killam Library. I enjoyed going there to listen to vinyl records in the music room or studying in one of the several desks that I believe were next to the windows overlooking the then open centre courtyard (my first year at Dalhousie was in 1976).

I was amazed by the architecture, both the exterior and interior.

I also liked the old chemistry library (I am not sure of the actual building name). It was like going back in time to the early 1900's, or so it seemed to me.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I have to agree on the Killam Library. I enjoyed going there to listen to vinyl records in the music room or studying in one of the several desks that I believe were next to the windows overlooking the then open centre courtyard (my first year at Dalhousie was in 1976).

I was amazed by the architecture, both the exterior and interior.

I also liked the old chemistry library (I am not sure of the actual building name). It was like going back in time to the early 1900's, or so it seemed to me.

Was that the MacDonald Science Library? I have a distant memory of being in there once. If I recall, it was as if a bunch of metal walkways, stairways and shelving units were assembled into a large open space.

I had classes in the Killam around the time you were there. Some of my professors had their offices in there too. The odd thing is that I have virtually no recollection of it at all.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I had classes in the Killam around the time you were there. Some of my professors had their offices in there too. The odd thing is that I have virtually no recollection of it at all.

I've been to some truly terrible offices in the Killam. I only vaguely recall what it was like but I think they were windowless and faced onto a corridor that might also have been windowless.

I do like the architecture around the atrium, lobby, and main staircase. It is an interesting building and, I think, the sort of architecture that people will regret destroying in a couple of decades, much like people regretted some of the demolition of the 1950's and 60's.

The Duke Street side of Scotia Square is nice as well. It's perhaps the only good angle of that development. I think it would be worth preserving too.

Something else worth noting is that, even though these buildings had a very heavy feel, they were often very creative and innovative for their time. A lot of new buildings seem simpler and cheaper.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Was that the MacDonald Science Library? I have a distant memory of being in there once. If I recall, it was as if a bunch of metal walkways, stairways and shelving units were assembled into a large open space.

I had classes in the Killam around the time you were there. Some of my professors had their offices in there too. The odd thing is that I have virtually no recollection of it at all.

Yes, it was the MacDonald Science Library. Thanks for the correct name.

I am not sure when the MacDoanld building was built, but according to this link it was originally the university library - http://www.dal.ca/campus-maps/buildi...-building.html

[counterfactual]

People praising the Killam and condemning the "subway-ification" of the atrium are actually ignoring the fact that the original atrium design was not enclosed, but a god-awful open air courtyard, freezing cold for most of the school year, and a place no student would ever hang out. There was absolutely nothing functional about the original design, but the usual arrogance and pretentiousness of brutalism -- a design more concerned with conveying impressions and massing externally with zero concern for actual functional need of users (how else to explain the teeny tiny windows through out the building beyond the atrium?). Just think about the similarly stupidly designed (and brutalist) Robart's library at UofT -- a huge peacock seen externally, very impressive, but done so with absolutely no inkling that students might need more natural light for reading than the tiny strips of light squeaking in through similarly tiny windows. Or, in other cases, no natural lighting at all.

In fact, the best part about the Killiam today, and one of the most successful student meeting places, is the atrium in the Killam, which is lightyears better than what was there under the original design.

People getting nostalgic for the Killam's brutalist design must never have had to use the damn place for more than brief visits.

I had to study in that "functional" building for years as I commuted to campus from outside the city, so it was my main study place. My favorite part was always the enclosed courtyard -- an innovation on top of the awful original design-- a quiet coffee at the Second Cup, where you could actually study or hang with friends, away from rain, snow, whatever. There was no other comparable student-focused gathering place on campus. There still isn't, even with the subway.

Romanticizing brutalism is an emerging hipster taste, but I'm not falling for it.

TLDR; the atrium people are nostalgic for was NOT the atrium in the original brutalist design, but a design innovation on top of it that significantly improved its function and use for people. Also, brutalism was terrible then, and is still terrible now.

[fenwick16]

I am not a fan of brutalist architecture in general, however there is something about the Killam Library that makes it appealing to me and others. The fact that there is light from the interior courtyard makes up for the lack of windows on the exterior.

I can't compare the Killam with the courtyard enclosed since I have never seen it enclosed, but there was something appealing to looking out the courtyard windows to the open courtyard, even on cold days.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Yes, it was the MacDonald Science Library. Thanks for the correct name.

I am not sure when the MacDoanld building was built, but according to this link it was originally the university library - http://www.dal.ca/campus-maps/buildi...-building.html

I believe it was at a similar time as the building that now houses the chemistry department (originally it held all the sciences before they out-grew the building around 50-60 years ago). If it was at the same time, then it is just over 100 years old. Before that, chemistry was in the Forrest Building (which was moved and now houses physiotherapy, nursing etc). I am pretty sure the building that houses chemistry was one of the ones designed by Andrew Cobb. I love the wooden door that is around the west side of the MacDonald building, tucked away on the side in those horrid concrete pathways. I think that small section now has a small archival/museum holding or something like that.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

People praising the Killam and condemning the "subway-ification" of the atrium are actually ignoring the fact that the original atrium design was not enclosed, but a god-awful open air courtyard, freezing cold for most of the school year, and a place no student would ever hang out. There was absolutely nothing functional about the original design, but the usual arrogance and pretentiousness of brutalism -- a design more concerned with conveying impressions and massing externally with zero concern for actual functional need of users (how else to explain the teeny tiny windows through out the building beyond the atrium?). Just think about the similarly stupidly designed (and brutalist) Robart's library at UofT -- a huge peacock seen externally, very impressive, but done so with absolutely no inkling that students might need more natural light for reading than the tiny strips of light squeaking in through similarly tiny windows. Or, in other cases, no natural lighting at all.

In fact, the best part about the Killiam today, and one of the most successful student meeting places, is the atrium in the Killam, which is lightyears better than what was there under the original design.

People getting nostalgic for the Killam's brutalist design must never have had to use the damn place for more than brief visits.

I had to study in that "functional" building for years as I commuted to campus from outside the city, so it was my main study place. My favorite part was always the enclosed courtyard -- an innovation on top of the awful original design-- a quiet coffee at the Second Cup, where you could actually study or hang with friends, away from rain, snow, whatever. There was no other comparable student-focused gathering place on campus. There still isn't, even with the subway.

Romanticizing brutalism is an emerging hipster taste, but I'm not falling for it.

TLDR; the atrium people are nostalgic for was NOT the atrium in the original brutalist design, but a design innovation on top of it that significantly improved its function and use for people. Also, brutalism was terrible then, and is still terrible now.

Agreed. Most of my nine years spent at Dalhousie were in the Tupper Building and the hospitals, so I rarely visited the Killam. I have vivid memories however of the Killam wind tunnel effect, especially in the wintertime. The brutalist architecture of the place reminded me of a Soviet gulag. I rejoice in the "new" enclosed atrium.

BTW - I never found the Killam functional. In fact, the way the book collection wrapped around the central courtyard was more annoying than anything else. A truly functional space is square shaped, not donut shaped........

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

(how else to explain the teeny tiny windows through out the building beyond the atrium?).

...

...but done so with absolutely no inkling that students might need more natural light for reading than the tiny strips of light squeaking in through similarly tiny windows. Or, in other cases, no natural lighting at all.

...

People getting nostalgic for the Killam's brutalist design must never have had to use the damn place for more than brief visits.

My understanding is that natural light was very deliberately limited to prevent UV from degrading the books/other print material. The NS archives building has a similar bunker-like exterior for the same reason, I think. I'm not sure what's changed since then but apparently this is less of an issue than it was in the past which is why they're considering re-cladding it in glass (don't know if they can treat the paper to make it more light-resistant, or if they have windows that filter UV or something).

I'm not sure if you mean nostalgia for the original, unenclosed design, but I used the Killam a lot over the last 10 years and really like it tbh. There are some obvious downsides (it takes a while to find most things) but I always liked how different it felt from most other spaces I've been in. The high modernist principles made it feel like stepping back into the 1960s or 70s. I agree that the cramped windowless basement is pretty terrible though.

The LSC is another building that feels like a time capsule of the mid-century but the "nostalgia factor" didn't come close to making up for its much more immediate shortcomings, especially in the wi-fi age (really hard to get signal in there).

[Jonovision]

True, the original design had the open air courtyard and was probably a lot less appealing then the closed design. But I think that was fixed relatively quickly.

My favourite part of it is that it looks like a solid cube on the outside, you walk into the main door under this oppressive concrete roof and then you get this massive reveal of the atrium. It is very good architecture in my opinion.

The reason there are little to no windows in the building is because back when it was built glass and building technologies were far inferior than what you would see on more modern libraries which in Halifax are now all glass buildings. Had the Killiam been clad in glass when it was built it would have damaged their book collection and been difficult to keep at the climate necessary to keep books in pristine condition.

[Jonovision]

I also found this nice quote in an article about the research library at UofT. I find this to be very true of Brutalism in general.

“Approach [Robarts] with an open mind and examine the intricacies of the composition and articulation of the form. The most difficult things in life are often the most rewarding. Brutalism can be one of them. It’s hard to get your head around, but once you’re there it may never let you go.”—Toronto heritage architecture consultant Thomas Wicks

[RoshanMcG]

The new SUB looks so much better than it used to, I can barely believe it's the same building from last year.

New atrium/food court area (formerly Chickenburger):




Grawood renovation:




Main lobby: