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Old Posted May 29, 2019, 9:51 PM
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Creating Suburban Exclusivity Within The City

The Suburbs Are Coming to a City Near You


May 18, 2019

By Candace Jackson

Read More: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/18/o...bs-cities.html

Quote:
The roof deck of this new apartment complex is over half of an acre, and currently a concrete construction zone. But soon it will have a grass lawn, benches, hammocks and 20 planter boxes that residents can use to grow vegetables. It’s the size of a larger-than-average backyard in a subdivision of a nice suburb with a name like Pleasanton or Pleasantville that’s a 30- or 45-minute drive from the city. But this airborne backyard is at the Landing, a building in Dogpatch, a still-industrial part of San Francisco near the waterfront and known for its warehouses and dive bars. It’s pretty far from anyone’s vision of classic tree-lined cul-de-sac suburbia.

- “The suburban life in the city is what we’re going for,” Roman Speron, a member of the building’s development team, told me on a recent tour of this oasis in progress. The 263-apartment development has been arranged with multiple elevator banks and outdoor space in the middle to create small clusters of residences. Marketing materials describe the setup as a “suburban village within the city of San Francisco.” — Your own slice of suburbia within city limits is a concept that developers and retailers across the country have been pitching a lot recently, subtly or not. The pendulum swings of socio-economic and demographic changes over the past two decades in some thriving cities are partly behind this shift.

- Even if the target renters for those Dogpatch apartments decamp for the suburbs eventually, their preferences, predilections and disposable income will have reshaped what a city is and who can afford to live there. For the first time since the invention of the car, many cities saw their populations grow faster than their suburbs between 2010 and 2015, said William H. Frey, a demographer with the Brookings Institution. — The densest urban neighborhoods once tended to be a mix of lower-income residents and the wealthy, but that balance has shifted. In 2000, the people most likely to live in the highest density neighborhoods were low income, said Jed Kolko, the chief economist of the website Indeed. By 2014, the wealthiest 10 percent of households were just as likely as the poorest 10 percent to live in high- density neighborhoods.

- In many American cities and downtown areas, new residential development is now heavily skewed toward more expensive, larger apartments and condos. Twenty years ago, just over 5 percent of new condos that sold in Manhattan had three or four bedrooms. In the first quarter of this year, nearly 19 percent of them did, according to the appraisal firm Miller Samuel. As land costs rise, developers can make more money building at the top end of the market and ignoring the middle. — At the Dahlia, a 38-unit building under construction on Manhattan’s Upper West Side, developers say the idea is to set up condos large enough that they could reasonably replicate the feeling of a house in suburbia. The building has no studios or one-bedrooms. The largest units, with four bedrooms, are around 2,100 square feet with prices starting just over $4 million.

- One of the Dahlia’s biggest selling points? It has its own parking garage. “You can pull in with your S.U.V., unload and take your things in a private manner,” said Shlomi Reuveni, the president of the company that is developing the building. “That’s very appealing.” And very suburban. — In some high-end buildings, architects are giving apartments the feel of single-family homes by replicating the layouts of suburban houses. At the Quay Tower, which overlooks Brooklyn Bridge Park, there are just five condos on each floor, two of which have private elevator access. Inside, the larger units have something you see a lot of on HGTV suburban house renovation shows: large mudrooms off the back door with locker-like cubbies and sturdy ceramic-tile floors.

- In Seattle, there’s a new luxury apartment building with a rooftop lounge with hammocks and a chicken coop you might see in a more permissive (or at least chicken-friendly) suburb. In New York, the developer Extell is wrapping up construction on the Kent, a building on the Upper East Side that has, in addition to a stroller valet and a swimming pool where kids can take lessons, an area called “Camp Kent.” It’s a play space that looks like a woodsy country scene with a treehouse and a carpeted “river” leading to a private outdoor playground. — Of course, these new buildings are designed for a very narrow slice of the population those who can afford to spend multiple millions of dollars on a home but it’s a slice of the population whose purchasing decisions affect all city dwellers.

- Big-box retailers, those shopping hallmarks of suburbia, are also moving into cities. Neil Saunders, the managing director of GlobalData’s retail division, says many suburbs are already saturated with big-box stores and not seeing the same growth they used to, making expansion into cities a more attractive option for chains. Target, with its huge selection of everything from groceries to furniture, is a prime example of this trend. In the 1990s, it went big on Target Greatland and SuperTarget stores in the suburbs and exurbs. — In 2006, Target stopped building Greatlands (though continued to build other Target stores). Then in 2012, the company went in the opposite direction, introducing urban Targets that measure around 100,000 square feet, compared with 130,000 square feet for an average Target in the ’burbs.

- By 2017, Target had opened 30 smaller-format stores in dense areas, including near college campuses and in big cities, some as small as 12,000 square feet. This year, it will open 30 more, compared with just two new suburban stores. The urban Targets are a way for the company to get stores close to where people are moving, said Jacqueline DeBuse, a Target spokeswoman. The company is still researching and adapting to what sells best at the small stores. — One thing it has learned: City dwellers tend to walk or take public transit to stores and don’t buy much in bulk, so you won’t find things like 24-pack paper towels in urban Targets. City shopping increasingly includes of the ultimate symbols of suburbia: malls. At the Hudson Yards development in Manhattan, a seven-story indoor mall is anchored by the city’s first Neiman Marcus department store.

- And if you miss suburban mall food courts, you’ve now got upscale, artisanal versions of them cropping up in cities, rebranded as food halls. Denver has at least half a dozen of these within city limits, including Broadway Market, where local vendors sell empanadas, sushi and Roman pizza. In San Francisco, the Market, underneath Twitter’s headquarters in the still-gritty Mid-Market neighborhood, opened in 2015 and is reportedly planning an expansion that will increase its size by 50 percent. — Some cities and neighborhoods are getting more of another thing often associated with suburbia: white people. White population growth in the United States is declining and cities aren’t, on the whole, getting whiter but some neighborhoods are. In 2000, the nearby Brooklyn neighborhoods of Brooklyn Heights and Fort Greene, for example, had a combined black population of about 45,000 and a white population of about 37,000. By 2015, there were 32,000 black residents and 62,000 whites.

- Suburbs are starting to look more like cities in other ways, too. Many commuter towns and exurbs have urbanized in their own ways. Shopping malls have been transformed into downtown-like retail corridors. In a shift from the single-family home sprawl that dominated in a previous generation’s version of suburban life, condo and apartment development is booming in many suburbs. — In expensive cities like New York and San Francisco, the people who do head for greener, suburban pastures tend to be middle-class millennials in search of affordable housing (no wonder very little new urban housing today is designed for them) or better public schools for their children. But these days, the search for a house with a garage and a backyard tends to happen later in life. In New York, the average age for a first-time mother is now 31; in San Francisco it’s 32.

.....



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  #2  
Old Posted May 30, 2019, 4:02 AM
mhays mhays is offline
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In Seattle, the vast majority of new units top out at one bedroom, often semi-enclosed. Multiple bedroom units are relatively few, and generally expensive.

Why? Land use code rules about residential floor plates and residential building profiles above a certain height result in a lot of buildings that are nearly square in plan, often around 110x110'. At that dimension, it's a long way from hall to window. A pseudo one-bedroom with a single windowed room is a great fit (from the door, it's often bathroom-bedroom-kitchen-living). Or you can do one bedroom and a narrow living room that both have windows. With two bedrooms, suddenly three rooms need their own windows...and then what do you do with all of that space in the interior, much of which won't have sunlight? Likewise the typical six-story woodframe also has large floorplates.

Buildings with narrow floorplates can much more easily have windows for each room. But suddenly you're paying way more for structure (particularly in a seismic zone) and enclosure on a square-foot basis. And anything that doesn't maximize square footage is overpaying for land. Basically all of our buildings maximize square footage allowed by code.

Also there's the small matter of larger units going for lower prices per square foot (and lower per developer dollar) than smaller ones. The sweet spot in a city full of 25-year-old techies is one bedroom.

But the result is very few families in our multifamily infill.

As for p-patches on roofs...those are mostly marketing. Anecdotally, residents seem to like the idea, but in the end, few people use stuff like that and it ends up fallow or managed by the building at best (people often choose buildings based on inspiration, like how they're going to start growing vegetables!).

Last edited by mhays; May 30, 2019 at 4:23 AM.
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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
In Seattle, the vast majority of new units top out at one bedroom, often semi-enclosed. Multiple bedroom units are relatively few, and generally expensive.
There are very few new construction one bedroom units created in prime parts of NYC. It's mostly 2-5 bedroom units, with generous proportions. And almost always for-sale. Very few rental buildings going up.

It's kinda weird, because the outsider stereotype is that everyone lives in shoebox apartments, and it's true for a certain type of renter, but new construction almost always targets wealthy families with kids.

I think the underlying issue is that nothing was really built for this cohort from the 1930's to about 2000. A typical 1980's highrise tends to have small units for singles or couples. If you were wealthy and wanted a big space in the city, you only had prewar options. Now that a higher proportion of wealthy stay in the city rather than decamping to suburbs, you have a strong market for massive, family-friendly spaces.

Also, many owners are selling their units in tandem with adjacent units, because they're more valuable combined. There are many buildings that had, say, 70 units 20 years ago, and now have 40 units.
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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 2:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
In Seattle, the vast majority of new units top out at one bedroom, often semi-enclosed. Multiple bedroom units are relatively few, and generally expensive.

Why? Land use code rules about residential floor plates and residential building profiles above a certain height result in a lot of buildings that are nearly square in plan, often around 110x110'. At that dimension, it's a long way from hall to window. A pseudo one-bedroom with a single windowed room is a great fit (from the door, it's often bathroom-bedroom-kitchen-living). Or you can do one bedroom and a narrow living room that both have windows. With two bedrooms, suddenly three rooms need their own windows...and then what do you do with all of that space in the interior, much of which won't have sunlight? Likewise the typical six-story woodframe also has large floorplates.

Buildings with narrow floorplates can much more easily have windows for each room. But suddenly you're paying way more for structure (particularly in a seismic zone) and enclosure on a square-foot basis. And anything that doesn't maximize square footage is overpaying for land. Basically all of our buildings maximize square footage allowed by code.

Also there's the small matter of larger units going for lower prices per square foot (and lower per developer dollar) than smaller ones. The sweet spot in a city full of 25-year-old techies is one bedroom.

But the result is very few families in our multifamily infill.

As for p-patches on roofs...those are mostly marketing. Anecdotally, residents seem to like the idea, but in the end, few people use stuff like that and it ends up fallow or managed by the building at best (people often choose buildings based on inspiration, like how they're going to start growing vegetables!).
My apartments bedroom has no window. I personally LOVE it. I used to work nights, so it was awesome to be able to sleep in complete darkness during the day. Don't get me wrong, some days I wish I had a window and a view from my bed, but the more practical side of me wants the darkness.
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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 2:53 PM
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Wow and here I thought the phenomenon of windowless-glorified-closets-passing-for-bedrooms was something unique to the awful floorplans of Toronto's mediocre investment condos!


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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 2:58 PM
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^ the vampire's special!

what a miserable plan.
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"Missing middle" housing can be a great middle ground for many middle class families.
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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 3:01 PM
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10X9'8" isn't bad for a bedroom, come on now!

I've got apartments with much smaller bedrooms than that
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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 3:07 PM
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^ i'm not talking about room size.

it's the lack of daylight that's the problem.

~6 linear feet of window all tucked away on an inside corner is pretty damn paltry.

i definitely would not want to live there.
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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 3:09 PM
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447 sq. ft. one bedrooms are standard in China/HK, but absurdly small in the West, esp. for new construction. Heck, studios aren't that small.

Those condos have to be for recent immigrants, no? I can't imagine native-born Canadians want to live Hong Kong style.
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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 3:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
My apartments bedroom has no window. I personally LOVE it. I used to work nights, so it was awesome to be able to sleep in complete darkness during the day. Don't get me wrong, some days I wish I had a window and a view from my bed, but the more practical side of me wants the darkness.
That would be illegal in California.

In California, for a room to be considered a bedroom, it has to have a window---at least that's what I was told. So a real estate agent or apartment owner can't advertise a room with no window as a bedroom.

Does your bedroom at least have a door to the exterior of the building? I'm wondering if that makes it count as a bedroom. I had a friend back in my youth where he would let me in and and out of his room through a door that went directly to the outside/inside of his room without my having to go through the house. But his bedroom also had a window.
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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 3:19 PM
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Since when is utilizing rooftop space considered "suburban life in the city"? This is not a new concept at all nor is it a bad one.
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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 3:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
447 sq. ft. one bedrooms are standard in China/HK, but absurdly small in the West, esp. for new construction. Heck, studios aren't that small.

Those condos have to be for recent immigrants, no? I can't imagine native-born Canadians want to live Hong Kong style.
Units in the 280-300 sf range are very common in my city. That's how you can build market-rate housing for singles in this city. Typically no parking of course.
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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 3:53 PM
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Units in the 280-300 sf range are very common in my city. That's how you can build market-rate housing for singles in this city. Typically no parking of course.
Really? Very odd.

Why would a non-poor couple live in a 280 sq. ft. unit? You can't even have a normal bed or furniture or have anyone over. I understand not wasting space but 280 sq. ft. is ridiculous if you have wealth.
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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 4:08 PM
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200-300 sqft studios in new builds can go for half a million in Toronto.

This one (~250 sqft of actual floorspace - the 311 sqft figure quoted there includes exterior/party walls) in a pre-construction tower is currently on sale for only $489,000!





I don't think many rational people would buy these - this isn't even a high-end building or in a great location - but then these sorts of units aren't meant to actually live in so much as being for investors to park their cash and then flip in a couple years.
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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
447 sq. ft. one bedrooms are standard in China/HK, but absurdly small in the West, esp. for new construction. Heck, studios aren't that small.

Those condos have to be for recent immigrants, no? I can't imagine native-born Canadians want to live Hong Kong style.

400-500 sqft is the norm for 1-bedrooms here; while 2-bedrooms start at 500-600 sqft. That's just what's available at a price that middle-class people can actually afford.

Don't think too many recent immigrants are buying condos though - most rent until they can afford to buy a house in the suburbs.
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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 4:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
That would be illegal in California.

In California, for a room to be considered a bedroom, it has to have a window---at least that's what I was told. So a real estate agent or apartment owner can't advertise a room with no window as a bedroom.

Does your bedroom at least have a door to the exterior of the building? I'm wondering if that makes it count as a bedroom. I had a friend back in my youth where he would let me in and and out of his room through a door that went directly to the outside/inside of his room without my having to go through the house. But his bedroom also had a window.
The bedroom has two doors, one to the bathroom and one to the main hall. My only knowledge of what constitutes a bedroom in the US is that it must have a closet.

To the light point, my apartment is a clear rectangle with the living room having a complete wall of windows. If I open my bedroom door I get a lot of light, too much for my licking.
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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 4:21 PM
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Really? Very odd.

Why would a non-poor couple live in a 280 sq. ft. unit? You can't even have a normal bed or furniture or have anyone over. I understand not wasting space but 280 sq. ft. is ridiculous if you have wealth.
I've heard that (a) some people are poor, and (b) some people are single.

Why pick a 280-square-foot place? Because a new one can rent for maybe $1,300, in a decent location!
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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 4:22 PM
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It's no mystery why they do it. It's so much more profitable to build 200 units @ 300sqft instead of 100 units @ 600sqft. I don't think they do much to alleviate the housing crunch either. They just get people accustomed to paying more for less and accepting a lower quality of life.
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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 4:25 PM
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Size. My first apartment in Norfolk was 560 sq ft and besides the large bathroom and bedroom, the apartment felt very small and had little storage. My current place is 630 sq ft but with a much better layout that maximizes the space. With me, the gf, and our large dog, the apartment is just right, right now. If we were going to buy we would want at least another 150 sq ft more, at the minimum.

As a single dude, I could easily live in a studio with 400 sq ft. It would have to be temporary though.
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Old Posted May 30, 2019, 4:40 PM
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It's no mystery why they do it. It's so much more profitable to build 200 units @ 300sqft instead of 100 units @ 600sqft.
I get that, I'm just mystified of why there are such different preferences in different markets. In NYC, developers definitely make more money building fewer, larger units.

And sellers often work in tandem, when convenient. Two 800 sq. ft. one bedrooms combined are worth much more combined than sold separately. Building smaller units wouldn't make sense, because buyers don't want a Murphy bed and IKEA furniture in a seven-figure apartment.

And I've lived in small apartments, and it was fine, but it was when I was young and had little money or possessions. I couldn't imagine living in something smaller than a hotel room nowadays.
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