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  #121  
Old Posted May 25, 2017, 1:18 PM
DDP DDP is offline
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Originally Posted by fuller View Post
Somewhere, SOMEBODY must have had a good experience with that guy. But I don't think I've heard that story yet.

Actually, it's rather hard to find any sort of commentary on him, which seems surprising considering his long pedigree.

By now I would have expected a couple good books on the subject, but there's nobody interested in writing it? I understand why current owners might hesitate but what about all those people who no longer have a connection to him or any of his various creations/eccentric visions.
Look at is track record starting way back.

1 King west, where owners were essentially screwed by him. It was a condo style hotel, and got crushed in valuations and cash flow. He went bankrupt there and came to Hamilton.

He did initially buy the Royal caughnaught and had to sell it off after that didn't work. He had another hotel that didn't work. For some reason he always wants to be a hotelier, and tried to bring that into every project. Stinson may be the only one he will complete in Hamilton and that was with a lot of issues.

He has vision but no business plan or execution.
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  #122  
Old Posted May 25, 2017, 1:51 PM
markbarbera markbarbera is offline
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Originally Posted by DDP View Post
Look at is track record starting way back.

1 King west, where owners were essentially screwed by him. It was a condo style hotel, and got crushed in valuations and cash flow. He went bankrupt there and came to Hamilton.

He did initially buy the Royal caughnaught and had to sell it off after that didn't work. He had another hotel that didn't work. For some reason he always wants to be a hotelier, and tried to bring that into every project. Stinson may be the only one he will complete in Hamilton and that was with a lot of issues.

He has vision but no business plan or execution.
Prior to 1 King West, Stinson developed Candy Factory Lofts, High Park Lofts, and the Graphic Arts Building, all very successful loft and live/work conversions of historic buildings in Toronto.
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  #123  
Old Posted May 25, 2017, 4:28 PM
NortheastWind NortheastWind is offline
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Stinson has also been doing work in New York state. He bought the closed Hotel Niagara in Niagara Falls, NY, then sold it for 4.77 million and now is working on a project in Buffalo to redevelop Buffalo's Central Terminal.
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  #124  
Old Posted May 26, 2017, 3:13 AM
fuller fuller is offline
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I remember when he announced the Candy Factory way back in the 90s but I thought someone else did the build out.

Condos.ca has the developer listed as "Metro Ontario Group", and a company called Metrontario Group lists the Candy Factory as one of their developments here but no mention of Stinson, so is Metrontario another of his companies perhaps?
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  #125  
Old Posted May 26, 2017, 12:11 PM
fizzle fizzle is offline
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Originally Posted by DDP View Post
Look at is track record starting way back.

He has vision but no business plan or execution.
This.

He picks interesting locations and interesting buildings. He has an eye for it actually.

But that's about it. He needs someone to handle the money side of things. He needs someone to handle the details around building stuff. He needs someone to handle the promotional stuff.

Somewhere along the way he determined that his celebrity (and really it's based almost solely off of Candy Factory Lofts) was enough to get him what he needed, and the rest would fall in place. In retrospect, even Candy Factory was more of a 'right place right time' sort of situation, seeing how development in Queen West ended up.
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  #126  
Old Posted May 26, 2017, 7:05 PM
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davidcappi davidcappi is offline
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It also doesn't help that Hamiltonians expectations have changed dramatically when it comes to development. If you're going to launch a project, plan to have shovels in the ground as soon as possible. We're no longer accepting of sub-par design, and we expect that developers will keep their promises. Stinson isn't following through on any of these things, and it's very upsetting.

The city should never have allowed him to win the bid for Cannon Knitting Mills when there were three other contenders.
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  #127  
Old Posted May 26, 2017, 7:23 PM
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King&James King&James is offline
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Originally Posted by davidcappi View Post
It also doesn't help that Hamiltonians expectations have changed dramatically when it comes to development. If you're going to launch a project, plan to have shovels in the ground as soon as possible. We're no longer accepting of sub-par design, and we expect that developers will keep their promises. Stinson isn't following through on any of these things, and it's very upsetting.

The city should never have allowed him to win the bid for Cannon Knitting Mills when there were three other contenders.
^^ I like that a perfomance and quality bond for any bidder on public properties
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  #128  
Old Posted May 27, 2017, 5:48 AM
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ScreamingViking ScreamingViking is offline
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Originally Posted by davidcappi View Post
The city should never have allowed him to win the bid for Cannon Knitting Mills when there were three other contenders.
For most procurements, it's not an easy thing to exclude a bidder based on their past record. It would need to be set out in the RFB, and even then I'm not sure that kind of restriction or judgment-based criteria could be included. It usually comes down to the business case for the project under consideration, and that's it.
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  #129  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2017, 2:20 AM
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  #130  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2017, 2:21 AM
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Chronamut Chronamut is online now
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Sigh,.. so beautiful restored.. looks like it may need some of that excess soda washed off but still beautiful

I'd love to see all the cladding taken off the windows and the sills and casings restored properly too.
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  #131  
Old Posted Dec 26, 2017, 11:28 PM
drpgq drpgq is offline
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Any more news on Gibson? I heard that Stinson is now on the Barton Village BIA board of directors.
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  #132  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2018, 12:49 PM
dandori dandori is offline
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I've got news from a private meeting Harry Stinson had with buyers from Beasley Park lofts, Gibson School lofts, and the Buffalo hotel project.

Basically, the 4th and 5th floors of Gibson School will not be built.

Apparently, this is because city officials are saying he will have to rebuild the foundation of the entire building to accommodate for the additional 2 floors on the building. This was not originally required in the review of the plans, but now they want it. So owners of the 4th/5th floor suites are basically fucked.

He also mentioned the city offered $4 million loans to anyone developing in the city of Hamilton (downtown), but the city never actually gave out these loans and it was all just word of mouth stuff that he was depending on.

So now, the owners of the 4th/5th floor suites will either have to take a refund or transfer their downpayment to another one of his developments with an 'equity credit' meaning that they will get some additional monies for the time their money has been sitting in the development trust.

Let me know if you guys have any questions.
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  #133  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2018, 2:35 PM
king10 king10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandori View Post
I've got news from a private meeting Harry Stinson had with buyers from Beasley Park lofts, Gibson School lofts, and the Buffalo hotel project.

Basically, the 4th and 5th floors of Gibson School will not be built.

Apparently, this is because city officials are saying he will have to rebuild the foundation of the entire building to accommodate for the additional 2 floors on the building. This was not originally required in the review of the plans, but now they want it. So owners of the 4th/5th floor suites are basically fucked.

He also mentioned the city offered $4 million loans to anyone developing in the city of Hamilton (downtown), but the city never actually gave out these loans and it was all just word of mouth stuff that he was depending on.

So now, the owners of the 4th/5th floor suites will either have to take a refund or transfer their downpayment to another one of his developments with an 'equity credit' meaning that they will get some additional monies for the time their money has been sitting in the development trust.

Let me know if you guys have any questions.
I'd think the Gibson school property would fall under the Barton St CIPA as opposed to the downtown CIPA.

https://d3fpllf1m7bbt3.cloudfront.ne...-12/16-125.pdf

8.1.1 Hamilton Downtown, Barton and Kenilworth Multi-Residential
Property Investment Program
The Hamilton Downtown, Barton and Kenilworth Multi-Residential Property
Investment Program supports residential development within Downtown
Hamilton, the Barton Village BIA and the commercial corridors along Barton
Street, east of the Barton Village BIA and along Kenilworth Avenue North as
identified in the Downtown and Community Renewal Community Improvement
Schedule “A” to By-law No. 16-126 (Page 27 of 38)
Downtown and Community Renewal Community Improvement Plan, May 2016
Project Area By-law. The Program offers financial assistance to projects that
result in predominantly residential development, including:
• the creation of a new multiple dwelling upon vacant land or parking areas;
and / or
• a building addition containing at least three new dwelling units; and / or
• the conversion of existing commercial, industrial, institutional space into a
multiple dwelling; and / or
• renovations to existing multiple dwellings.
A multiple dwelling must contain at least three dwelling units. Projects involving
fewer than three dwelling units may be eligible for the Commercial Corridor
Housing Loan and Grant Program (see Section 8.1.4).
The maximum loan is $4 M per development. The loan is based on 25% of the
project’s Cost to Construct Budget including uses accessory to the dwelling units

(e.g. parking, laundry, gym / pool used by residents); for mixed use projects, only
the residential component of the project’s Cost to Construct Budget, together with
uses accessory to the dwelling units, is factored into the loan amount.
The maximum loan term is five years and six months from the date of the final
advance exclusive of holdback. The loan interest rate will be 0% for the first five
years. For the last six months of the loan, interest shall be payable on the
principle outstanding at the then prevailing rate established by Council for
interest on tax arrears.
The detailed program description, terms and administrative procedure for the
Hamilton Downtown, Barton and Kenilworth Multi-Residential Property
Investment Program, as adopted by City Council resolution, are provided in
Appendix “A” to this Community Improvement Plan.

https://d3fpllf1m7bbt3.cloudfront.ne...-12/16-126.pdf
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  #134  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2018, 2:43 PM
dandori dandori is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by king10 View Post
I'd think the Gibson school property would fall under the Barton St CIPA as opposed to the downtown CIPA.

https://d3fpllf1m7bbt3.cloudfront.ne...-12/16-125.pdf

8.1.1 Hamilton Downtown, Barton and Kenilworth Multi-Residential
Property Investment Program
The Hamilton Downtown, Barton and Kenilworth Multi-Residential Property
Investment Program supports residential development within Downtown
Hamilton, the Barton Village BIA and the commercial corridors along Barton
Street, east of the Barton Village BIA and along Kenilworth Avenue North as
identified in the Downtown and Community Renewal Community Improvement
Schedule “A” to By-law No. 16-126 (Page 27 of 38)
Downtown and Community Renewal Community Improvement Plan, May 2016
Project Area By-law. The Program offers financial assistance to projects that
result in predominantly residential development, including:
• the creation of a new multiple dwelling upon vacant land or parking areas;
and / or
• a building addition containing at least three new dwelling units; and / or
• the conversion of existing commercial, industrial, institutional space into a
multiple dwelling; and / or
• renovations to existing multiple dwellings.
A multiple dwelling must contain at least three dwelling units. Projects involving
fewer than three dwelling units may be eligible for the Commercial Corridor
Housing Loan and Grant Program (see Section 8.1.4).
The maximum loan is $4 M per development. The loan is based on 25% of the
project’s Cost to Construct Budget including uses accessory to the dwelling units

(e.g. parking, laundry, gym / pool used by residents); for mixed use projects, only
the residential component of the project’s Cost to Construct Budget, together with
uses accessory to the dwelling units, is factored into the loan amount.
The maximum loan term is five years and six months from the date of the final
advance exclusive of holdback. The loan interest rate will be 0% for the first five
years. For the last six months of the loan, interest shall be payable on the
principle outstanding at the then prevailing rate established by Council for
interest on tax arrears.
The detailed program description, terms and administrative procedure for the
Hamilton Downtown, Barton and Kenilworth Multi-Residential Property
Investment Program, as adopted by City Council resolution, are provided in
Appendix “A” to this Community Improvement Plan.

https://d3fpllf1m7bbt3.cloudfront.ne...-12/16-126.pdf
Totally not surprised. This guy just SCREAMS amateur developer. He may have an eye for design (some might say), but he is definitely not great at management and planning.
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  #135  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2018, 5:46 PM
king10 king10 is offline
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ya you'd think he'd do some research and find the actual policies versus word of mouth when you're talking about financing a multi million dollar development.
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  #136  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2018, 4:24 PM
NortheastWind NortheastWind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandori View Post
I've got news from a private meeting Harry Stinson had with buyers from Beasley Park lofts, Gibson School lofts, and the Buffalo hotel project.

Basically, the 4th and 5th floors of Gibson School will not be built.

Apparently, this is because city officials are saying he will have to rebuild the foundation of the entire building to accommodate for the additional 2 floors on the building. This was not originally required in the review of the plans, but now they want it.
When Core Urban puts on additional floors at their projects, they punch holes through each floor to accommodate steel columns, which bares the weight of the addition. Why can't he do that?
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  #137  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2018, 12:09 PM
dandori dandori is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NortheastWind View Post
When Core Urban puts on additional floors at their projects, they punch holes through each floor to accommodate steel columns, which bares the weight of the addition. Why can't he do that?
Nooooooo idea.
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  #138  
Old Posted May 6, 2018, 6:39 PM
yomsen yomsen is offline
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Was here today for the Open Doors event, here are some photos of the interior if anyone is interested. Vandals apparently destroyed the "show room" that they had.











Last edited by yomsen; May 6, 2018 at 6:51 PM.
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  #139  
Old Posted May 6, 2018, 7:23 PM
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Chronamut Chronamut is online now
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Wow it's amazing to see the bare bones of the school inside - I am assuming some of those walls will be knocked out as some of those rooms are extremely narrow..
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  #140  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 12:57 PM
DDP DDP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markbarbera View Post
Prior to 1 King West, Stinson developed Candy Factory Lofts, High Park Lofts, and the Graphic Arts Building, all very successful loft and live/work conversions of historic buildings in Toronto.
Keep in mind he didn't develop any on there own.

The one he talks about the most is Candy Factory Lofts, but he called in Metro Ontario to finance and co-develop the project.

http://metrontario.com/real-estate/c...ory-lofts.html

Even in Hamilton, Stinson school was financed and co-developed by Fram out of Mississauga.

1 King west he was sued out by the Mirvish group, and most initial investors lost money on the concept. It was when new management came in did it turn around.

There are reasons he couldn't get more jobs in Toronto. And after what close to a decade, there is just Stinson lofts in Hamilton.
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