Phoenix Development News (3)

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Considering Aristotle didn’t live through the plague of Athens and he personally tutored a genocidal megalomaniac named Alexander maybe his musings aren’t necessarily always correct.

As for emotional reactions I agree that it is quite obviously instinct is some sort of built in survival mechanism, however I don’t agree that because emotions are part of our survival strategy as individuals that they are valid for making group (society wide) decisions

There are many things things we do as humans that are, evolutionarily speaking, disadvantageous to the individual or even “family” or “community” small group. but are beneficial overall. And while humans are “social” animals we are not a hive, and thus do not have the sort of natural instincts to protect the greater good beyond our immediate..

So while appreciate your justification for emotional appeal I do not think it’s relevant to the topic which is, should we really destroy our society economically to save a bunch of old people who had only a few years left anyway. Instincts to protect grandma while deeply harming the the national health are foolish and dangerous.

Oh, I'm not justifying it. I'm just citing the person who is likely one of (if not THE) most influential in how we structure our current society. Our storytelling is very explicitly run along what he outlines in the Poetics, and our structure of governance largely follows what he outlines (although these days, Plato's Republic feels increasingly more real). You can argue against him. I'm just the messenger.

As for whether or not our really crappy intuitive reasoning (what Kahneman calls "fast thinking" a.k.a. what almost all of us call "thinking," unlike the really difficult things like calculus and statistical rationality on a very detailed level) is an evolutionary flaw or an advantage is the central argument of behavioral economics. We have a really strong ideology of individualism to make claims about not being a hive, but this virus is ripping that illusion apart, unfortunately. 95%+ of our activity is unconsciously influenced by others. I wish it wasn't so, but we are an incredibly social species that adheres to group reasoning. Emotions are just the nervous system. I'm not saying that it is beneficial to particular ideas of community, but that selfishness eventually organizes into species advantage, or we go extinct.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by DesertRay

Oh, I'm not justifying it. I'm just citing the person who is likely one of (if not THE) most influential in how we structure our current society. Our storytelling is very explicitly run along what he outlines in the Poetics, and our structure of governance largely follows what he outlines (although these days, Plato's Republic feels increasingly more real). You can argue against him. I'm just the messenger.

As for whether or not our really crappy intuitive reasoning (what Kahneman calls "fast thinking" a.k.a. what almost all of us call "thinking," unlike the really difficult things like calculus and statistical rationality on a very detailed level) is an evolutionary flaw or an advantage is the central argument of behavioral economics. We have a really strong ideology of individualism to make claims about not being a hive, but this virus is ripping that illusion apart, unfortunately. 95%+ of our activity is unconsciously influenced by others. I wish it wasn't so, but we are an incredibly social species that adheres to group reasoning. Emotions are just the nervous system. I'm not saying that it is beneficial to particular ideas of community, but that selfishness eventually organizes into species advantage, or we go extinct.

What’s the point of going off on this tangent ?

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by Obadno

What’s the point of going off on this tangent ?

Just conversing with someone on the board about what they brought up. If it offends, nuke it. Doesn't bug me in the least. I read everything that people put up here, and would much prefer to see updates (which I totally appreciate).

[biggus diggus]

It's the internet, guys. No requirement to read anything you don't want to read.

[BA744PHX]

Soooo.... any update on Astra or Rastegar projects? I hope with everything going on they still move forward!

[PHX31]

Here's my concern: let's say it turns out that millions have already been infected by this coronavirus (and yes, without effective social distancing millions more might be). But in turn, the death rate turns out to be extremely low. Even lower than typical influenzas. (I think this may end up being how this all turns out - once testing proliferates not just on those that are likely to have covid-19, but others, and we find it's extremely widespread but not as deadly for the general population). Then what? How are we going to proceed as a society once this coronavirus abates? Are we all going to become a bunch of Howard Hugheses? Are we going to shut down schools and businesses and sports next winter when the first kid that gets the flu, or pneumonia, or covid-19 again surfaces? By then we'll know that covid-19 isn't as deadly (just more infectious), so does that that mean we all start to freak out over all sickness and the potentially deadlier diseases that we never really cared about, and end up ceasing to function as a "normal" society?

As it is now, i'm on the side of we're blowing this way out off proportion and causing innumerable consequences that are worse than the problem we're trying to prevent. And i say this with my wife being an RN on the "frontlines" (dumb term, even she hates hearing that). I feel like we should isolate those that are high risk (they should do it themselves and be free to) and let society and people getting sick run its course. Back in the day (3 weeks ago and prior) people would get terribly sick with something, it would suck, and in a few weeks they were fine, maybe they even worked their job through it. Now is everyone going to lose their minds if they catch a cold?

My mind can easily be changed with more factual and data-driven information, but this is what i feel like right now. My hope is that we as a society just get less disgusting and simply wash our hands more and all sickness rates plummet.

[Wildcats]

I have not lived in Phoenix or Tucson for a long time. The best thing I get with this website is the current/updated developments going on in downtown Phoenix. You do much better than the media and individual websites for the developments. Especially, I like all the photos you guys post on here. I don't understand when I see other websites ...or, articles that have a picture of downtown Phoenix - it is from 15 years ago!! How difficult is it show a current photo!?! Please show more photos - I think you guys do a great job with them. More photos - less text. It is great when you shoot from different distances ...different sides - looking east ...then, looking west ...then, north, etc. Also, appreciate when you say something like: "I walked past the Aspire today..." I have to struggle to understand "who, what, where," that is. I think - after researching - the Aspire is a 17 story residential building going up on Fillmore and 2nd Ave. Appreciate if you could say, "The 17 story Aspire going up at Fillmore and 2nd Ave." There only seems to be one good webcam - ironically, from the city of Phoenix - the webcam looking north ...the building of that 20 story "X" residential building - I believe at Van Buren and 2nd Ave. Even the webcam - building that new hotel/apartment complex in Tucson outside of the main gate at the UofA - has stopped/frozen ...like three months ago! Have no idea what the development looks like currently. You guys don't get paid for what you are doing - yet, do a great job!

Regarding the (current) world crisis (thank you government and media - they strike again) I agree - 24/7 talk and media … enough! They can't even keep it simple and just show the FACTS: How many active/symptoms cases in relationship to the death rate (1.5%??). Then, just compare to the annual (regular) flu rates (60,000 deaths?) in this country and the Swine flu that killed 20,000 Americans in 2009. I'll draw my own conclusions.

[Code5]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

Just in case everyone missed this

I saw. Kenects crane is all the way down or almost down near street level. Not sure what progress Derby is at yet. I'm going for a walk around tomorrow though.

[Wildcats]

Originally Posted by Code5

I saw. Kenects crane is all the way down or almost down near street level. Not sure what progress Derby is at yet. I'm going for a walk around tomorrow though.

What and where is Derby? When to be built ...started construction? How tall?

Is there going to be a very tall, new building - to built next to the Hyatt Regency Hotel - like, 40 stories or so? If so, what are the details on it?

[Nobody-Important]

Derby has its own thread and the other project is nowhere near 40+ stories

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by Nobody-Important

Derby has its own thread and the other project is nowhere near 40+ stories

The Hines proposal is 34 stories + parapet. So pretty close to 40.

[fawd]

Originally Posted by PHX31

And i say this with my wife being an RN on the "frontlines"

It's a tiny bit concerning that you of all people don't appreciate how delicate a localized healthcare system actually is. That's most of what this comes down to.

[ASUSunDevil]

Originally Posted by fawd

It's a tiny bit concerning that you of all people don't appreciate how delicate a localized healthcare system actually is. That's most of what this comes down to.

Completely agree with PHX31. Where did he say that he doesn't appreciate the healthcare system?

This 'quarantine' has been an absolute failure. I've never seen more people out and about riding bikes, walking dogs etc. than ever before. Bikini Beans Espresso is an essential business? Fine with me that they're open, but don't force the little guys and other 'non essential' businnesses to close down.

The U.S. will cover it's ass by printing $ no matter the situation. Whether it causes mass inflation and more unemployment is yet to be seen. Hopefully by the end of summer everything is back to 'normal' - besides the hypochondriacs and alcoholics that this global panic attack has created. But hey, the media wins again!

[gymratmanaz]

Moderators??????.... Any chance to create a separate thread for Corona Virus discussions? They are important for sure!!!!! We need to talk about it. ....I enjoy coming here for construction news as a fun getaway from the daily bad news. Again, the virus is vital for us to talk about and making a thread for it might be a great way for venting and sharing of ideas. Could we do that and save this thread for construction news and a pleasant getaway?

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by gymratmanaz

Moderators??????.... Any chance to create a separate thread for Corona Virus discussions? They are important for sure!!!!! We need to talk about it. ....I enjoy coming here for construction news as a fun getaway from the daily bad news. Again, the virus is vital for us to talk about and making a thread for it might be a great way for venting and sharing of ideas. Could we do that and save this thread for construction news and a pleasant getaway?

This. I come to this forum because it provides an escape from the harsh realities of daily life at the moment. If I want to read idiotic posts about conspiracy theories or how this is all overblown, I could just stick with city-data.com posts and the crazies over there.

Don’t even lump it in with the General Phoenix thread, just create a separate dedicated thread if you must

[biggus diggus]

There's not really any development news to talk about while everything is in limbo but I agree, I suggested a couple of days ago we have a separate discussion and it was ignored.

Like the moderators on ferrarichat and 6speedonline it's more about enforcing rules than it is about finding helpful alternatives for people so they are less likely to break them.

[TJPHXskyscraperfan]

Originally Posted by ASUSunDevil

Completely agree with PHX31. Where did he say that he doesn't appreciate the healthcare system?

This 'quarantine' has been an absolute failure. I've never seen more people out and about riding bikes, walking dogs etc. than ever before. Bikini Beans Espresso is an essential business? Fine with me that they're open, but don't force the little guys and other 'non essential' businnesses to close down.

The U.S. will cover it's ass by printing $ no matter the situation. Whether it causes mass inflation and more unemployment is yet to be seen. Hopefully by the end of summer everything is back to 'normal' - besides the hypochondriacs and alcoholics that this global panic attack has created. But hey, the media wins again!

Well our state is allowing restaurants/coffee shops and such to remain open, not just essential business. Let’s hope it stays that way so at least we can still do take out or delivery and support our local business.

[ASUSunDevil]

Just hoping that construction can power through this nightmare

[Ballister]

Originally Posted by Wildcats

I have not lived in Phoenix or Tucson for a long time. The best thing I get with this website is the current/updated developments going on in downtown Phoenix. You do much better than the media and individual websites for the developments. Especially, I like all the photos you guys post on here. I don't understand when I see other websites ...or, articles that have a picture of downtown Phoenix - it is from 15 years ago!! How difficult is it show a current photo!?! Please show more photos - I think you guys do a great job with them. More photos - less text. It is great when you shoot from different distances ...different sides - looking east ...then, looking west ...then, north, etc. Also, appreciate when you say something like: "I walked past the Aspire today..." I have to struggle to understand "who, what, where," that is. I think - after researching - the Aspire is a 17 story residential building going up on Fillmore and 2nd Ave. Appreciate if you could say, "The 17 story Aspire going up at Fillmore and 2nd Ave." There only seems to be one good webcam - ironically, from the city of Phoenix - the webcam looking north ...the building of that 20 story "X" residential building - I believe at Van Buren and 2nd Ave. Even the webcam - building that new hotel/apartment complex in Tucson outside of the main gate at the UofA - has stopped/frozen ...like three months ago! Have no idea what the development looks like currently. You guys don't get paid for what you are doing - yet, do a great job!

Regarding the (current) world crisis (thank you government and media - they strike again) I agree - 24/7 talk and media … enough! They can't even keep it simple and just show the FACTS: How many active/symptoms cases in relationship to the death rate (1.5%??). Then, just compare to the annual (regular) flu rates (60,000 deaths?) in this country and the Swine flu that killed 20,000 Americans in 2009. I'll draw my own conclusions.

Let’s see where you stand in 3-4 weeks.

[Wildcats]

Originally Posted by Ballister

Let’s see where you stand in 3-4 weeks.

I agree. I don't know. However, I just want to see the facts. How many deaths compared to the annual regular flu (60,000 Americans) and the 2009 pandemic swine flu (killed 20,000 Americans). Since the end of January of this year, roughly 2,500 deaths in USA from corona virus. About a 1.5% death rate of those exhibiting symptoms. Dr. Fauci stated that possibly 100,000 to 200,000 Americans could die from this. I didn't read anywhere - in what time frame. Six months? One year? Time will tell.