[Halifax] The Mills (5484 Spring Garden) | 21 m | 7 fl | U/C

[LikesBikes]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Your "handle" or name says a lot. This quote from your post is also telling. It implies that you think SGR doesn't "need" visitors from the hated suburbs (and presumably further afield). It is akin to saying "we don't want your kind here."

I guess suburbanites should remain in the suburbs and mind their own business, and that only bicycling downtown urbanists should have any say on the nature or character of streets like SGR. The dichotomy of peninsular and non-peninsular Haligonians is only going to deepen.

In the old days, people like my in-laws would look forward to driving into the city (from Antigonish) and visiting the unique shops on SGR. They visited only a few times per year, but they spent a lot of money in places like Mills Brothers (they had a sense of style). It is not as easy to visit any more. Traffic is worse, and getting around the city is harder. They preferred to park on street and avoided parking garages. They would not park in the suburbs and take a bus downtown. This would be inconvenient (especially if you have many parcels). I'm sure they were not unique. People like them are getting shut out of downtown, and, with the uniqueness of SGR disappearing, they are less likely to go there in the first place..........

LOL. I never said anything about hating the suburbs or suburbanites, just that the street should be able to survive off of locals and people who use transit. That's just my impression from taking the bus down the street pretty much every day and going to a few cafes and restaurants since I've been here. A big chunk of the people I see on the street appear to be students and people using the bus. It's sad people from outside the city will be inconvenienced when they visit downtown or city centre but that's kind of the case in every big city. Further, I don't see the problem of planning downtown and central Halifax for people who already live there, as opposed to people who live hours away and visit once a month.

Project all you want about my username but there's not a whole lot of deeper meaning besides I like to ride bicycles and think they are a solution to a lot of our traffic and environmental solutions in a city. I'm surprised you would be so antagonistic about this given this is an urbanism forum.

[LikesBikes]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I assume you must not be a HRM resident if you think our Transit system can make a street. Transit here is essentially a last-resort option because it is just very poorly run. It can't maintain a reliable schedule, it can't provide reliable connections, and the overall experience is very unpleasant.

I am new to the HRM but I live on the peninsula and am transit dependent. I wouldn't say it's last resort as the buses I take are regularly packed and filled with all types of people. I think there's definitely room for improvement but it also could be worse.

[kzt79]

Originally Posted by LikesBikes

Project all you want about my username but there's not a whole lot of deeper meaning besides I like to ride bicycles and think they are a solution to a lot of our traffic and environmental solutions in a city. I'm surprised you would be so antagonistic about this given this is an urbanism forum.

You think this is bad, go check out the Halifax reddit if you want to see a whole new level of self-disparagement.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by LikesBikes

I am new to the HRM but I live on the peninsula and am transit dependent. I wouldn't say it's last resort as the buses I take are regularly packed and filled with all types of people. I think there's definitely room for improvement but it also could be worse.

Yes, this. There's a TON of room for transit improvement, but our transit isn't some sort of poverty-mobile of last resort. I work from home so I don't commute, but I still use transit fairly often--usually the ferries to cross the harbour, or the number 7 for a quick and easy way downtown when I don't want to haul my car around town. I don't find it "very unpleasant."

[someone123]

Halifax has a high transit modal share and comparatively good service for a North American city. To me "the bus is for poor people" sounded like something people who don't take transit say (speaking of Reddit...).

Regarding the question of character, it doesn't require architectural marvels, just basics like permeability, visual interest or variety, and sense of place. The old streetscape there had multiple facades of different scales with finer-grained details in some cases in local styles. There's no reason why the new building couldn't be like that; it's a stylistic choice and the costs of building a wooden or masonry facade are likely minimal in the scheme of a major development.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by someone123

There's no reason why the new building couldn't be like that; it's a stylistic choice and the costs of building a wooden or masonry facade are likely minimal in the scheme of a major development.

Indeed. There is no reason why the developer could not have paid homage to the historical streetscape by including some of the pre-existing features such as the faux Tudor facade of Mills Brothers. This would have created visual interest and would have helped to avoid the generic commodification of SGR which is well underway.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Indeed. There is no reason why the developer could not have paid homage to the historical streetscape by including some of the pre-existing features such as the faux Tudor facade of Mills Brothers. This would have created visual interest and would have helped to avoid the generic commodification of SGR which is well underway.

I'd like to see something like that for the building on Grafton by Maxwell's Plum. Build some nice-looking facades out of real materials that fit in with the streetscape. Put whatever you want above and along Market Street. It would look good and be popular and I doubt it would break the bank.

But I'm not sure many local developers view the city in the same way. Instead they tend to like shiny modern looking buildings, maybe "value engineer" the facades, the economics are probably better with big clean slate blockbusting buildings, etc. Sometimes this is okay, as with Richmond Yards, because of the context. Theoretically this is an area to cover with municipal planning, but the results have often been pretty bad and seem mostly governed by the budgets and taste levels of the developers. The Argyle Street red brick hotel was meant to be historic looking and was at one point described as "brick and sandstone", but it looks like an assemblage of stuff that was on sale at Home Depot.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

That latter sentiment seems to be supported by many Nova Scotians of late, thanks to our Premier, Finance Minister and others in the provincial govt who want to drive away non-resident property owners with punitive taxation measures that have no rational connection to the problems they are claiming it will solve. There has always been a strong undercurrent of xenophobia among some in this province and this seemed to appeal to those groups.

IMHO
Fewer non-residents will mean less demand for services in Halifax including the revamped SGR district.

•The non-resident tax is the worst negative PR possible
•Will hurt rural property values…less tax base for municipalities
•No new construction for vacation homes and people planning to retire in their current vacation home will now look elsewhere
•Reduced requirement for building supplies / services
•Many affected properties are non-winterized and cannot be occupied more than a couple of months in our harsh climate so they should be exempt
•A vacant 2.5million vacation home will not make housing more available for locals
•Most locals looking for housing would need to be close to employment
•Exempt from tax if rented to Nova Scotians has a very bad ring….locals won’t be renting at the price required to pay taxes, utilities, maintenance etc.
•Non-residents have very little to no financial demand on health care or Gov. funded programs
I’m sure there are more negative ramifications to this poorly design tax and time will tell.

Non-residents should get a tax break to encourage more non-resident construction.

[LikesBikes]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Yes, this. There's a TON of room for transit improvement, but our transit isn't some sort of poverty-mobile of last resort. I work from home so I don't commute, but I still use transit fairly often--usually the ferries to cross the harbour, or the number 7 for a quick and easy way downtown when I don't want to haul my car around town. I don't find it "very unpleasant."

Absolutely. Everyone says their city's transit is terrible but from the cities I've lived in, Halifax seems more or less fine for its size.

[LikesBikes]

Originally Posted by kzt79

You think this is bad, go check out the Halifax reddit if you want to see a whole new level of self-disparagement.

No self-disparagement here. If people are triggered by people in cities riding bikes that's their problem.

[kzt79]

Originally Posted by LikesBikes

No self-disparagement here. If people are triggered by people in cities riding bikes that's their problem.

I enjoy riding a bike myself! Doesn't mean I don't make fun of the bike mayor

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Empire

IMHO
Fewer non-residents will mean less demand for services in Halifax including the revamped SGR district.

•The non-resident tax is the worst negative PR possible
•Will hurt rural property values…less tax base for municipalities
•No new construction for vacation homes and people planning to retire in their current vacation home will now look elsewhere
•Reduced requirement for building supplies / services
•Many affected properties are non-winterized and cannot be occupied more than a couple of months in our harsh climate so they should be exempt
•A vacant 2.5million vacation home will not make housing more available for locals
•Most locals looking for housing would need to be close to employment
•Exempt from tax if rented to Nova Scotians has a very bad ring….locals won’t be renting at the price required to pay taxes, utilities, maintenance etc.
•Non-residents have very little to no financial demand on health care or Gov. funded programs
I’m sure there are more negative ramifications to this poorly design tax and time will tell.

Non-residents should get a tax break to encourage more non-resident construction.

Agreed on all points, a well-reasoned post. Don't post that on the Halifax subreddit though, or the rabble there will downvote you into oblivion and the mods who run that echo chamber will accuse you of trolling and ban you.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

Halifax has a high transit modal share and comparatively good service for a North American city. To me "the bus is for poor people" sounded like something people who don't take transit say (speaking of Reddit...).

The "poverty-mobile" line was stated here by Drybrain, not those of us critical of Transit. And clearly, if you are tuned into the various social platforms, Transit is very widely held in low esteem by those who use it because they have no other viable choice. I used it for years and it was just not good. It sounds like little has changed.

Regarding the question of character, it doesn't require architectural marvels, just basics like permeability, visual interest or variety, and sense of place. The old streetscape there had multiple facades of different scales with finer-grained details in some cases in local styles. There's no reason why the new building couldn't be like that; it's a stylistic choice and the costs of building a wooden or masonry facade are likely minimal in the scheme of a major development.

I think this is an excellent idea. I wouldn't necessarily want to replicate what was there before the cheque processing building was built because I suspect it wasn't particularly memorable, but something nicely retro at street level - but not the faux-Victorian treatment like the Marriott across the street - would be a good improvement.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I think this is an excellent idea. I wouldn't necessarily want to replicate what was there before the cheque processing building was built because I suspect it wasn't particularly memorable, but something nicely retro at street level - but not the faux-Victorian treatment like the Marriott across the street - would be a good improvement.

My belief is that a lot of preservationist sentiment stems from the simple reality that a lot of people find the new buildings less appealing than the old ones. It's not that they demand that every old building be saved as is or that they want to live in 1950. This shift happened in the modern era, when modern architecture was dominant, and would probably seem pretty foreign to somebody living in 1850 or 1550. Some buildings are worth preserving as time capsules but that is a very small percentage of the building stock.

[kzt79]

All of these comments make me wonder if the day will come people are bemoaning the destruction and replacement of the current newly built/developing bland or otherwise objectionable buildings? Hard to say!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by kzt79

All of these comments make me wonder if the day will come people are bemoaning the destruction and replacement of the current newly built/developing bland or otherwise objectionable buildings? Hard to say!

Nobody shed any tears for the bunker on Grafton.

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by someone123

Nobody shed any tears for the bunker on Grafton.

Bunker? There was a bunker on Grafton?

[LikeCranes]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Agreed on all points, a well-reasoned post. Don't post that on the Halifax subreddit though, or the rabble there will downvote you into oblivion and the mods who run that echo chamber will accuse you of trolling and ban you.

Nobody has mentioned private equity funds buying up properties and trading them like commodities. Does that not have some influence on home prices? Is that not the kind of thing the non resident tax is supposed to address?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by LikeCranes

Nobody has mentioned private equity funds buying up properties and trading them like commodities.

This also has some bearing on the concept of sacrosanct property rights and how reasonable it is for the municipality to do something like register a heritage property that was, say, built 100 years ago purchased by a Chinese shell company 2 years ago and could be resold at any time for a profit, registration or no registration.

[mleblanc]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

Bunker? There was a bunker on Grafton?

There was. In between Grafton and Market Street - the old cheque processing building.