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  #1  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2020, 1:44 PM
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[Moncton] Active Transportation

To steal a line/thread idea from the Halifax forum:

"I think its about time we have a place to talk about non-car related transportation like cycling or walking."

What are your ideas for integration of alternate transportation types?
What are your experiences using them?
Are those experiences recreational or professional? (ie: commuting)

Let's, as always, keep it constructive, even when we are expressing frustrations.
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  #2  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2020, 1:52 PM
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You had to do it..........

I think I'll let KeithP know about this affrontery so he can keep an eye on things over here as well.
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Old Posted Oct 4, 2020, 2:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post


You had to do it..........

I think I'll let KeithP know about this affrontery so he can keep an eye on things over here as well.
I thought of chiming in there but a large part of why I didn't is that while active transportation is a philosophy, it's also geography dependent and I wouldn't much feel qualified talking about trying to cycle in Halifax... which definitely has it's own unique challenges different from Moncton. Our geography / growth patterns definitely make our situation a bit... easier.
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Old Posted Oct 4, 2020, 2:23 PM
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To be clear, I am a supporter of active transportation where appropriate.

In particular, I think Moncton is well placed to expand a trail based active transportation system as the city grows. For example, the Northwest Trail is a fabulous resource, and if I wanted, I could cycle downtown about 85% of the way on a trail system completely divorced from the street grid. This is where bicycle trails belong - well away from the street grid. I would be in favour of enhancing the trail system in the city by paving them all.

Expanding active transportation on the street grid is more problematic, and should be approached in a rational manner. In general, I do not oppose the conversion of Salisbury Road and Shediac Road to single lane/central turning lane from four lane, with the creation of bicycle lanes on either side. I think this approach is reasonable given current traffic volumes.

I however am a fierce opponent of pedestrianization of Main Street. Main Street is the only continuous cross town route in the core, and the experiment they tried this summer was an abysmal failure, which should never be repeated. I likewise was gratified to see the return of the western portion of Mountain Road to four lane traffic this year. If a bicycle trail is to be created at some point along Mountain Road, then sacrifice one of the sidewalks to do this. There is no room for bicycles on busy commuter roadways.

There is no room for zealotry in dealing with active transportation issues; only rational thoughts and compromise..........
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Old Posted Oct 4, 2020, 2:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
In particular, I think Moncton is well placed to expand a trail based active transportation system as the city grows. For example, the Northwest Trail is a fabulous resource, and if I wanted, I could cycle downtown about 85% of the way on a trail system completely divorced from the street grid. This is where bicycle trails belong - well away from the street grid. I would be in favour of enhancing the trail system in the city by paving them all.
You won't find much disagreement there. I'll take gravel over nothing, though!
Quote:
Expanding active transportation on the street grid is more problematic, and should be approached in a rational manner. In general, I do not oppose the conversion of Salisbury Road and Shediac Road to single lane/central turning lane from four lane, with the creation of bicycle lanes on either side. I think this approach is reasonable given current traffic volumes.
I admit I haven't tried those particular routes yet.
Quote:
I however am a fierce opponent of pedestrianization of Main Street. Main Street is the only continuous cross town route in the core, and the experiment they tried this summer was an abysmal failure, which should never be repeated. I likewise was gratified to see the return of the western portion of Mountain Road to four lane traffic this year. If a bicycle trail is to be created at some point along Mountain Road, then sacrifice one of the sidewalks to do this. There is no room for bicycles on busy commuter roadways.
I'll agree AND disagree here... I agree that the way the lane was added wasn't very well done. To be fair, I think it's intent was more about patios/walking traffic than cyclists, as the latter weren't helped much at all (might have been worse, to be honest).

I cycle Main before, during and now after the experiment and I prefer just keeping right and going with traffic. I have flashing rear light, wear a helmet, and don't run red lights or stop signs. If there is no bike lane, I won't even pull up next to a car if waiting in line. In short... act like a car.

That said, I know that's not an option for everyone... it takes a minimum level of technology and physical fitness to be able to go with traffic flow and not inhibit it too much. It's also good practice for when you are outside the city and have no choice but to travel on narrower, less busy, but in many ways more dangerous (speed) roads.

In the end, a lot of the issues are resolved with education of both types of transportation (car/cycle).
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Old Posted Oct 4, 2020, 3:23 PM
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Main Street is far from the only cross town route in the downtown area. Alternatives include St. George St, Queen St., Assomption Blvd and, if a 5 minute drive isn't too much, we can drive up Vaughn Harvey to Mountain Road. In the past when we closed Main Street for events, ie in Ian Fowler's day it was closed with great regularity, it took about two work days for the traffic to become accustomed to not using Main Street, and then everything went exceedingly smoothly. I know. I worked downtown in a 8:30-to-5 pm job when traffic was heaviest. (I live in the 'burbs so had to drive through this five days per week.) So let's not pretend Main Street East and Main Street West are landlocked when the street is closed.
Dieppe has got it right when it comes to active transportation, with paved signed and lined biking/walking trails crisscrossing their city. This is mostly thanks to forward thinking when the city was about to boom. Moncton is in a tougher position as the city has matured before active transportation became a thing. Now they've done a great job with the northwest trail and the Humphrey Brook trail, but only after both these two trails were created by atvers and snowmobilers, after which the city noticed the good job the people had done with their own money, time, blood, sweat and tears and took them over and developed them for the walkers\cyclists only, banning those who built them in the first place, rudimentary as those trals were before the city took over.
I'm not sure how Moncton can build more nice trails like that at this point in its development, certainly it would help when planning new subdivisions to incorporate room for such nice trails. While I no longer have cause to look at new subdivision plans, I do scan a few from time to time and haven't noticed any trails incorporated into them, the exceptions being where the new homes either front or back on to an existing trail, or there is a pre-existing trail nearby. I will stand corrected if I'm wrong on this as I could have easily missed some.
This silly notion of drawing a line on the side of a four-lane road like MOuntain Road and declaring a safe zone for cyclists is foolishness in the extreme. It's hard to believe no one has been killed yet. By their same logic, we don't need to build a new bridge between Moncton and Albert County, we can just draw one on the side of the road.
Sorry for the long rant. I got no skin in this game as I don't bicycle any more and I do my walking in the woods, not in a city. But it irks me to see my tax dollars being pissed away on poor planning that any high school student could foresee that is going completely in the wrong direction.
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Old Posted Oct 4, 2020, 3:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I would be in favour of enhancing the trail system in the city by paving them all.
For cycling to be even considered as a commuter option the trails need to be paved.
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Old Posted Oct 4, 2020, 4:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L'homard View Post
Main Street is far from the only cross town route in the downtown area. Alternatives include St. George St, Queen St., Assomption Blvd and, if a 5 minute drive isn't too much, we can drive up Vaughn Harvey to Mountain Road. In the past when we closed Main Street for events, ie in Ian Fowler's day it was closed with great regularity, it took about two work days for the traffic to become accustomed to not using Main Street, and then everything went exceedingly smoothly. I know. I worked downtown in a 8:30-to-5 pm job when traffic was heaviest. (I live in the 'burbs so had to drive through this five days per week.) So let's not pretend Main Street East and Main Street West are landlocked when the street is closed.
While the other routes you mentioned are indeed east-west crosstown routes, there is only one street that extends the entire way across the entire city from Salisbury Road to Dieppe, and that is Main Street.

As far as I'm concerned, the ideal street to funnel bicycle traffic on to in the downtown area is Gordon/Queen Street. It is already the street that the Northwest Trail funnels on to, and there is a pedestrian activated crossing light at the western intersection of Gordon and Vaughan Harvey. Further east, bicycle traffic could be encouraged down Botsford and across Main to Downing Street and then the Riverfront Trail.

I have no objection to occasionally closing Main Street for special events, but I think the emphasis should be on keeping Main Street open as much as possible, and diverting street closures to side streets like Downing Street, especially when the next phase of the Downing Street reconstruction is completed.
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Last edited by MonctonRad; Oct 4, 2020 at 11:42 PM.
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  #9  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2020, 10:10 PM
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It's funny this thread should be created now, because look what I've been doing the last couple days:



I also just recently moved here and have been living car-free for the most part, so I know a little bit.

My ideas (at their absolute most imginative) are as follows:



In the Northwest area, Plaza Dr is a great candidate for the centre-passing-lane concept, allowing an on-street lane for its length. The marked area is likely to be developed at some point, so the existing Worthington Ave lane should be extended. The big project here is based on an idea I got from this very forum: an overpass connecting the two segments of Ryan St, connecting to a trail that would run along Mountain Rd where there is currently no access, and around the corner to the bit that's already there. This part is important because the current sharrow on the Mapleton overpass is an absolute joke unlikely to encourage any non-enthusiast cyclist. I would add a painted lane along the length of Maplehurst Dr, including its future extension to Ryan St. Lastly, A painted lane further along Gorge Rd, before taking a two streets in the new residential areas around Mountain Woods golf and maybe Ensley Dr, rather than bothering with the current 4-lane section of Mountain Rd.

Further east, we have the Vision Lands. What this area will look like in the future is beyond the scope of this thread, but it's easy to imagine, say, a new crossing of Route 15 from Carson Rd and a trail alongside Leopold F. Belliveau Dr to Mapleton. There is also room for a new lane on the Morton Ave overpass and an extension of trail along Morton (as simple as replacing the sidewalk with asphalt). Granite Dr is going to have a trail on its north side allowing bikes access to go all the way from McLaughlin Dr to Harrisville Blvd.

Speaking of Harrisville Blvd, that road is clearly meant to have a trail running parallel to it, linking up with Dieppe Blvd to eventually provide up to 10km of continuous trail. In Lewisville and on the Dieppe side of Route 15, new lanes on quiet residential streets will combine with the more easy-going section of Acadie Ave and a trail along Champlain where there's no sidewalk. A crossing of the highway could also be built.

Dieppe will really just extend some existing trails, such as along Dieppe Blvd, Melanson Rd, and Fox Creek Rd. The real challenge is the future sprawl, but they seem to have their bases covered on that.

Riverview has a few thing already happening. The new bridge will include a crossing; in addition, the riverfront trails on both sides could be extended. At the most extreme, this could go as far as I've shown. The planned Bridgedale Blvd will have a trail, as will a third bridge if it ever materializes (decades from now I'm sure). Either way the ROW that exists for such a bridge makes for a great future corridor.

Downtown, there are likely more changes to come than I've shown, but I agree with the idea of making Gordon/Queen the artery. The existing sharrow should IMO be replaced by a full-on lane, extended to Steadman St and along Steadman and King to Botsford St.

It's hard to imagine a much more significant network than this.

Bear in mind this is a dream scenario, but about half this stuff is based on what's already planned. Almost none of it requires considerable property acquisition.
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  #10  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2020, 11:22 PM
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This is a good push and motivation to people.
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  #11  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2020, 11:49 PM
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Good post Franco401.

Moncton has better bones and has a good head start WRT Halifax in terms of active transportation infrastructure. The challenges to creating new infrastructure are considerably less in Moncton too, and this is mostly geographically and topographically based.

I'm sure as new neighbourhoods are built out, that active transportation corridors will be automatically implemented and installed. Bridgedale Blvd in Riverview will have a bicycle path along one side when it opens. Certainly the Vision Lands will also be well served by active transportation, with connections to Mapleton Park and to the UdeM lands.

I am quite confident we can find a solution in Moncton without being too much of a nuisance to the motoring public. We certainly have a greater chance at this than Halifax does............
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Old Posted Oct 5, 2020, 11:26 AM
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That's a great post, Franco401! I'm gonna dig into it a bit deeper over the next few days.

* One thing I think we have to work on a bit on existing trail networks is signage... Mill Creek trail network signage is... very confusing, for example.
* Dieppe's network is growing fast, but has a lot of unconnected bits with little direction on how to link them together... you'll get dumped into the middle of a suburban cul-de-sac and without a mapping app, won't find your way out.
* Would be nice if the end of the RV side of the riverfront trail would extend East a little further... right now to link into Mill Creek you need to come up Hawkes and go along Coverdale road for a bit. Not a big deal, but I'd love to have all these "bits" and "segments" properly linked in a safer way.
* Would also be nice if the NW trail had a way to get to the W end of Mapleton park... right now it's backtrack to Evergreen and cross Mountain and down Gorge. Again, not a huge problem, but contiguous loops is a nice goal.

Last edited by Nashe; Oct 5, 2020 at 1:43 PM.
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Old Posted Oct 5, 2020, 2:00 PM
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That's a terrific map! Well done!
There are a few spur trails off of the Northwest trail not shown, specifically the one out by Bulman. The city also has land set aside to continue it behind Wakefield as far as Ryan.

It would also be worth including the trails through the big parks. The fire-break road around Centennial Park should definitely be added.
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Old Posted Oct 5, 2020, 2:16 PM
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Good points about the missing spurs off of the NW Trail. This would include a spur to the new Maplehurst Middle School, and a couple of spurs near the new NW YMCA, including a long one paralleling Twin Oaks which extends past Ecole le Sommet down to the Ryan Street roundabout.

[EDIT] - I see that you have the one on Twin Oaks by the NW YMCA included in your diagram, but there is a second shorter connector between the NW Trail and the new YMCA on the east side of Twin Oaks which extends through a woodlot which is absent from your diagram. Although short, this trail is wide and nicely gravelled.
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Last edited by MonctonRad; Oct 5, 2020 at 2:45 PM.
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Old Posted Oct 5, 2020, 2:32 PM
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Interesting TedTalk:

The Amazing Way Bicycles Change You - Anthony Desnick

I admit I'm only a recent "convert" to the cult of the cyclist... but the benefits espoused (in this and other videos) are tremendous:

1) reduction in accidental death
2) health improvements across the board
3) being happier, overall!

Our largest, hard-to-mitigate issue here in Moncton is climate, really... everything else could be dealth with via $ and policy... more paths (and paving them), better interconnections, etc.

Last edited by Nashe; Oct 5, 2020 at 2:45 PM.
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Old Posted Oct 5, 2020, 3:07 PM
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* Would also be nice if the NW trail had a way to get to the W end of Mapleton park... right now it's backtrack to Evergreen and cross Mountain and down Gorge. Again, not a huge problem, but contiguous loops is a nice goal.
The priority for the Northwest area, IMO, should be keeping bikes off Mountain Rd without sacrificing access to businesses on that road.



With that in mind, one strategy is to add signage and sharrows on most of the cross streets approaching it. A protected lane is tempting, but there isn't enough land and it wouldn't replace the Northwest Trail as an artery. In addition, a lane the length of Glencairn Dr and Mailhot Ave (pending extension) provides access parallel to Mountain without travelling the additional 1km to the trail.
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Old Posted Oct 5, 2020, 3:14 PM
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If anyone's interested in picking through what I decided on or wants to add their own, here's a file with all the existing and proposed segments for Google Earth (web version or desktop app). I recommend Google Earth Pro as you can separate Current and Future. (This stuff is nothing compared to what I did for Fredericton)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D9t...ew?usp=sharing
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Old Posted Oct 5, 2020, 3:28 PM
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Loaded it in GE and it's great.
I think there is an intention (short term) to extend the existing, dead-end trail behind Petsmart/BB&B to somewhere down by Crowley Farm or SOMEHOW cross Wheeler (less likely) to join Rabbit Brook, but I could be wrong.
My preference would be to follow Hall's Creek to Crowley, as it likely would have the best views.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@46.12067.../data=!3m1!1e3

You can see the intent here:

https://www5.moncton.ca/docs/maps/Ac...port_actif.pdf

Something else I'd like to see (more provincial, maybe):

Extension of bike lane on Salisbury road to the head of the NB Trail:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@46.03291.../data=!3m1!1e3

Then development of a bike lane on the 112 (Coverdale road) back to RV from where the trail comes out:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@46.02358.../data=!3m1!1e3

But I suspect there are more ATVs/snowmobiles on that network right now...

Also, investigate the possibility of taking the RV waterfront route farther along the bank of the river towards Salisbury... now that the waterline has far receded (and won't be coming back). There's already a berm/dike/rough path for some length of it.

Last edited by Nashe; Oct 5, 2020 at 3:44 PM.
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Old Posted Oct 6, 2020, 1:52 PM
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Nice job on the map Franco401.

I'm a biker and have been on the off road trails around Moncton for years. I'm not a commuter on the bike, but rather a biker who rides for exercise and site seeing.

I compliment the city's efforts on building the off road trail system, however I consider the on road bike/vehicle sharing system a joke. I avoid riding the streets like I avoid the corona virus.

With that said, I would like to see more asphalt paving along the more popular used trails, riverfront and west end with a center yellow divider line. Similar on Millennium drive. This will help 'commuters' who are using their favorite 'devices' (bicycle, electric scooter, electric hoverboards, skateboards, Boosted boards, Segways, rollerblades, etc.).

Other than that, I'm happy with what the tri community has to offer so far.
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Old Posted Oct 6, 2020, 3:04 PM
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I know that there is some sort of plan to have a bridge from outhouse point to downtown Moncton. What will the widening of the river after the causeway bridge opens do to the potential viability of this bridge? Are there any projections on how wide the river will be at the bend?
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