The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[ErickMontreal]

Thanks for the comments regarding the pictures

The new 24-unit apartment building being built on Arlington Cr (Millidgeville) is almost completed, they got a website. Also, there is another 3 or 4-story apartment building getting built on Noel Avenue, still located in Millidgeville. Altogether, there are three apartment complexes currently under construction in this part of town.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by ErickMontreal

Thanks for the comments regarding the pictures

The new 24-unit apartment building being built on Arlington Cr (Millidgeville) is almost completed, they got a website. Also, there is another 3 or 4-story apartment building getting built on Noel Avenue, still located in Millidgeville. Altogether, there are three apartment complexes currently under construction in this part of town.

I was just down on Arlington not too long ago and I don't remember it being close to being finished...that's impressive!

The building you mentioned on Noel...is that a second building or the same one that i've posted photos of on here?

[ErickMontreal]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I was just down on Arlington not too long ago and I don't remember it being close to being finished...that's impressive!

The building you mentioned on Noel...is that a second building or the same one that i've posted photos of on here?

Good question, I think it is the same one but honestly I am not even quite sure of the street as I was out there yesterday at night. The building is stacked up a hill in a dead end, if it helps any.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by ErickMontreal

Good question, I think it is the same one but honestly I am not even quite sure of the street as I was out there yesterday at night. The building is stacked up a hill in a dead end, if it helps any.

Yes, that's the same building. When you said three buildings in Millidgeville I didn't think you included the apartment building on Technology & Somerset.

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by Peter_johnns

Can someone please develop a shipping container condo in uptown SJ?

The Port City should have this kind of development

I like it.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by Wishblade

I personally wish we were completely converted to electric by now, and there's honestly no good reason why we haven't.

Saint John should start planning now how it will survive in a world void of fossil fuels.

Nobody can afford the true cost of alternate fuel/energy sources now or in the foreseeable future. I see multiple installations of solar panels going up in my area the last few years - most likely every single one of them financed by the provincial government with an 'unsustainable' agreement. These small installations on private property are reducing the income of a heavily debt burdened power utility, and selling power back to the grid at 64 or 80 cents/kwh. Check it out:

http://www.solarpowernrg.com/index.p...t-program.html

You check your electric bill and see if you're paying anywhere near that. I know you're not, so just figure out how much you would be paying if 64 to 80 cents per kwh plus markup for the grid was your rate.

Another thing to consider is the 5 hour quick charge time for the humongous batteries in these cars. Some quick math:

A fill up at a gas station 5 or 10 mins max.
A fill up at a quick charge station 5 hrs.

So a 'quick' fill takes about 30 to 60 times longer at a high energy consumption rate.

That also means you wiill need 30 to 60 times MORE 'quick' charge stations than the current total number of gas pumps.

A Chev Volt costs about $90,000 and only because it is heavily, heavily subsidized by governments (your own money by the way) can it be sold at all.

Hydro companies already have a hard time keeping up with demand in peak periods. How does adding 30 - 60 times as many 'quick' charge stations conserve our available energy market?

These problems and many more that I can't even think of are why we are utilizing our current energy infrastructure the way we are. It is unimaginable how much it would cost to stop using fossil fuels at this time. If there was a way to do it, it would have happened or it would be in the midst of occurring right now.

2050 is as far in our future as 1976 is in our past. The infrastructure changes necessary to make this happen face a lot more resistance now than they would have 37 years ago. The capital available to do this is relatively far less than it was 37 years ago because governments are hanging over the edge of a steep cliff in debt already.

So until our economy is much more buoyant, and everybody is buying $90,000 vehicles, nobody can afford it.

[Ire Narissis]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

So a 'quick' fill takes about 30 to 60 times longer at a high energy consumption rate.

That also means you wiill need 30 to 60 times MORE 'quick' charge stations than the current total number of gas pumps.

A Chev Volt costs about $90,000 and only because it is heavily, heavily subsidized by governments (your own money by the way) can it be sold at all.

[...]

So until our economy is much more buoyant, and everybody is buying $90,000 vehicles, nobody can afford it.

Regarding charge stations: the difference is that you can bundle high-current chargers with the cars so everyone can have one at home. Can't do that with a gas pump.

Regarding the cost of electric cars: they're an emergent technology, so of course they are expensive. Early computers cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and were only affordable to the richest companies; now you can get a computer that fits in your pocket and is thousands of times more powerful than those early machines for $200. EV prices will drop as they become more widely adopted and manufactured.

Having said that, there are other problems with EVs, some of which I mentioned in my last post and some of which you've also touched on. I'm not sure if I would concede your point about load on the grid; you could just as easily propose that the reduction in electricity used to produce the gasoline in the first place would make up for it.

My prediction is that we'll see a more practical alternate-fuel vehicle enter production before EVs manage to overcome the range and charge time hurdles.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

A Chev Volt costs about $90,000 and only because it is heavily, heavily subsidized by governments (your own money by the way) can it be sold at all.
.

I think this was a very good post, however a Chevy Volt is in the $30-$40K range, no where near $90K subsidized or not.

[JHikka]

Demo work being done on Main Street. Judging by the fact that power cables are still attached to the building i'm assuming the front portion is going to stay for the time being.


Photo by myself, courtesy of Flickr.

[Taeolas]

Commuter Rail for Saint John?

Interesting idea, and the rail nut in me hopes it gains traction.

On the other hand, the city they mention (Denton, TX) looks like it's on the edge of the Dallas/Fort Worth Megalopolis, so it's not really comparable.

Plus our winters probably have more of an effect on ridership than their summers do, as far as Weather reasons go.

[kwajo]

I'm as optimistic about Saint John has anyone, but the commuter rail thing just isn't going to work with a city our size. I would rather concentrate funding on increasing bus routes and frequencies, because diversifying transit into another modum would simply increase costs of an already taxed system.

[JHikka]

I like the idea of commuter rail but i'm afraid the outlying areas (and even inner areas) aren't quite urban enough to warrant it. That is to say, too many people would still prefer to drive rather than take the train, and thus it would become unfeasible. Perhaps at 150/200K it would become feasible. I'm sure that somewhere there is a magic number where suddenly commuter rail to outlying suburbs is ideal.

[IslandTek]

Originally Posted by HardTruth

I would appreciate a brief explanation as to what market there will be for so much paper in 2030.

In 2012 ebook sales surpassed paperback.

Paper editions of newspapers and magazines have continued to decrease circulation.

Many large companies are requiring employees to receive paystubs online.

The use of Internet billing and banking is growing.

E-mail is winning out over paper mail (Canada post would be dead now if not for ads, which won't save it indefinitely)

The market for paper is decreasing dramatically so Irving may have some keen business sense to play the market for the next 10 years, however the plant will close eventually.

I dont know about you guys, but I cant see myself wiping my butt or blowing my nose with an ebook!

What about diapers? Paper towel? Technology cant replace everything.....just sayin..

[Fischbob]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Commuter Rail for Saint John?

Interesting idea, and the rail nut in me hopes it gains traction.

On the other hand, the city they mention (Denton, TX) looks like it's on the edge of the Dallas/Fort Worth Megalopolis, so it's not really comparable.

Plus our winters probably have more of an effect on ridership than their summers do, as far as Weather reasons go.

I agree that adopting commuter rail would be super-cool (I even included it in that fantasy transit map a couple pages ago), and the SJ metropolitan area is actually laid out perfectly for it!

However, it's another thing entirely to determine whether the move makes practical/financial sense. Here's a rough breakdown of what you'd need to consider:

- An outlay of capital costs for things like rolling stock (probably a few DMU's), station construction, any track/signalization improvements that would be necessary, and a depot for storage/servicing. Amortize this over the life cycle of the vehicles and infrastructure.
- Changes in staffing costs. Presumably you'd be able to run a smaller number of higher-capacity vehicles compared to the bus option (so fewer operators), but you'd also need to hire dedicated maintenance staff to service the trains: not sure what the net effect would be here.
- On the revenue side of things, the hope would be that the mode change from bus to commuter rail would either increase overall ridership (the assumption in the article that you'd reduce service to two daily trips over a more geographically limited area makes the prospect of a ridership increase difficult to believe) or you'd be able to command higher fares (also unlikely).

I invite someone who's less busy to throw together some spreadsheets, but my gut feeling is that commuter rail will neither significantly reduce costs nor significantly increase revenue.

Now, given Saint John's layout and the potential for future suburban population growth, commuter rail might make sense later on if:
-Population levels increase in suburban municipalities across the board (boo) such that suburban feeder bus routes become feasible, and most of these new households' jobs are located uptown.
-There is the market and political will to establish transit-oriented development (TOD) areas around commuter rail stations to maximize the potential to generate ridership.

As we look to design such a service in the future, Ottawa's O-Train might be a helpful model to consider.

EDIT: And as for what NOT to do, Montreal's Train de l'Est makes for an interesting parable.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by IslandTek

I dont know about you guys, but I cant see myself wiping my butt or blowing my nose with an ebook!

What about diapers? Paper towel? Technology cant replace everything.....just sayin..

I grew up in a small town in Northwestern Ontario - Kimberley Clarke ran a very successfull pulp mill from the 40s right through to the 90s - it ran into hard times, a few sales and bankruptcy until last year. A large Indian firm - I think they also have a mill here in NB - bought it and is converting the mill to a rayon producing mill using wood pulp - it has injected new life into the town....here's a link to the article....I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Irving venture down this path at some point.

http://www.saultstar.com/2012/07/05/...to-rayon-fibre

[Fischbob]

Yeah, both the Nackawic and Atholville mills in NB were reopened after being acquired by the Aditya Birla Group, and are now integrated into the same rayon/viscose cellulose fiber (VSF) production chain. I wrote a research paper on the NB pulp and paper industry a couple years ago, and these two mills were clearly the bright spots in what was otherwise a bleak decade characterized by permanent mill closures (Dalhousie, Bathurst, Miramichi) and employment reductions across the board, even at those mills that remained open.

North American mills in general are facing fierce competition from Brazil, where eucalyptus pulpwood can mature in as little as 5 years. However, mills that are embedded in certain value-added supply chains (textiles such as Nackawic and Atholville; or disposable tissue products such as Irving Pulp and Paper, Irving Tissue and Majesta) are certainly in a safer position than those that rely/relied more on demand from traditional printed media (AbitibiBowater Dalhousie produced newsprint, UPM Miramichi produced glossy magazine paper).

[Peter_johnns]

https://twitter.com/RoadsForRail

CBC article is a bit misleading. Anyone who has questions email roadsforrailcon@gmail.com
Also Denton wasn't meant do be a place to model Saint John after. Denton is a suburb of Dallas.

It would be great if anyone here would like to join the campaign

[Fischbob]

Ah, given your username I assume you're the proponent from the article? If so, congratulations on getting media exposure! It's certainly more than my banter has ever accomplished

While my position is that the current Comex bus system serves SJ's needs well today, I definitely think that consideration should be given to the option of commuter rail (in conjunction with complementary actions like TOD's) in formulating a long-term regional transportation strategy. Like so many other ideas we've discussed here, there's no reason why we can't start thinking about it now and begin laying the groundwork for when conditions are right later.

And although I disagree with the commuter rail part of the picture (for now), I am highly in favour of the second component of your campaign, which is the imposition of highway tolls. I find it incredible that the NB government can spend $500M on the Route 1 twinning, countless more hundreds of millions on other highway projects, not toll them, and then turn around and wonder why we're in a fiscal crisis! That being said, this is going to be a tough sell politically given the car-crazy NB public.

Good luck with the petition!

[Peter_johnns]

Originally Posted by Fischbob

Ah, given your username I assume you're the proponent from the article? If so, congratulations on getting media exposure! It's certainly more than my banter has ever accomplished

While my position is that the current Comex bus system serves SJ's needs well today, I definitely think that consideration should be given to the option of commuter rail (in conjunction with complementary actions like TOD's) in formulating a long-term regional transportation strategy. Like so many other ideas we've discussed here, there's no reason why we can't start thinking about it now and begin laying the groundwork for when conditions are right later.

And although I disagree with the commuter rail part of the picture (for now), I am highly in favour of the second component of your campaign, which is the imposition of highway tolls. I find it incredible that the NB government can spend $500M on the Route 1 twinning, countless more hundreds of millions on other highway projects, not toll them, and then turn around and wonder why we're in a fiscal crisis! That being said, this is going to be a tough sell politically given the car-crazy NB public.

Good luck with the petition!

Highway tolls alone cause too much upset in suburbs. Commuter rail is the compromise. Get people in the city, but not their cars— eliminating the bulk of the damage suburbanites cause on city infrastructure.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Peter_johnns

Highway tolls alone cause too much upset in suburbs. Commuter rail is the compromise. Get people in the city, but not their cars— eliminating the bulk of the damage suburbanites cause on city infrastructure.

The opposition that I saw on Twitter was that you'd be encouraging people to live in the suburbs now that the transportation options are available (commuter rail). As Fischbob said, I think COMEX does a pretty good job right now of ferrying a certain number of people in from the 'burbs to the city and taking away those cars that would otherwise be using those roads. However, those cars wouldn't amount to the wear-and-tear that something like a heavy industry transport truck does when driving on SJ streets. The One Mile interchange will help alleviate that, but moving forward it's a lot more than just passenger cars that are the reason why SJ roads fall apart so quickly.

Commuter rail is something that I think we really need to start pushing for in the coming years.