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  #8761  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2012, 4:52 AM
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ethereal_reality ethereal_reality is online now
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FYI: Los Angeles Times article on the long lost dutch-themed chocolate shop.


latimes

here's the link.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,4132257.story
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  #8762  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2012, 9:02 AM
fhammon fhammon is offline
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Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
FYI: Los Angeles Times article on the long lost dutch-themed chocolate shop.


latimes

here's the link.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,4132257.story
There's something that struck me as a little bogus about the previous "discovery" story. People with inquiring minds obviously knew it was there but I suspect there wasn't a manager or owner willing to be bothered with it until recently. "Historical Landmarks" might interfere with the bottom line - rent. Now all of a sudden it's "Look what was here all along and we didn't know it!" I'm glad it's finally been uncovered and restored. Kudos to the new proprietor, Charles Aslan for his appreciation.

Quote:
Tile was visible on the ceiling and walls, poorly lighted by fluorescent bulbs. But the stalls had plywood walls where the murals should have been, and there was no way to see what was behind them.

Last edited by fhammon; Aug 2, 2012 at 9:55 AM.
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  #8763  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2012, 12:57 PM
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MichaelRyerson MichaelRyerson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhammon View Post
No lie.
Check out the light mast in this frame from Scott's blog (don't laugh at my obsession).
It's an older one rigged for climbing and set almost directly in front of the St. Charles (Bella Union!) Hotel.
That makes three light masts that are out of place according to popular history. Ferguson Alley, the Plaza Church rectory and now the St. Charles Hotel.



Los Angeles Public Library Photo Collection
http://losangelespast.blogspot.com/2...ker-block.html

Edit:
...or maybe not. It seems the older "climber" model was soon replaced with this higher and maybe even more powerful self-adjusting electrode gap model soon after.


one of first seven electric street lights, los angeles
No, both of these pictures are of the same mast, one of the first two original masts (Main and Commercial and First and Hill). This being the mast identified by DWP as being at Main and Commercial Streets (although it is clear that strictly speaking it was off the corner by a couple hundred feet, being pretty much in front of the Bella).


DWP Historical notes: "By December the only hold-up was the delayed arrival of the dynamo and lamps. In growing anticipation, the citizens anxiously awaited the moment in history when the first streetlights would illuminate the night skies of Los Angeles. That moment came on December 30, 1882 before an admiring crowd of spectators. Mayor Toberman threw a switch at twenty minutes past eight, simultaneously lighting two mast tops, one at Main and Commercial and the other at First and Hill."

"An account in the Express newspaper at the time, recounted the historic event in this way: “The Main Street light burned steadily and beautifully and it cast a light similar to that of the full moon on snow. The First Street light was very unsteady, glowing at times with brilliancy and again almost fading from sight. The only complaint so far is from young couples who find no shady spots on the way home from church or theatre.”"

"By the following evening, five more masts were lighted on First Street and Boyle Avenue; Avenue 22 and North Broadway; First Street and Central Avenue; Fourth Street and Grand Avenue; and Sixth and Main Streets."


The only question is which is the older pic and although it's hard to tell, the image from my earlier post (the second in your post) is what is used in the DWP archives as being the original mast. How these arc masts were modified and how many more of them were installed around the city isn't clear. I haven't been able to find any more information on these early lights. But we do know that ornamental posts, what we typically think of as 'streetlights', weren't installed until 1905. So one might deduce, over the years from 1883 to 1905, the old arc lights and their masts proliferated and were modified as new technology became available. Hence the appearance of 'out of place' arc lights. But the location of the original seven is pretty well established.


Again from the DWP Historical notes: " In May 1905, the first ornamental post system in the city was introduced on Broadway between First and Main Streets. This installation consisted of 135 posts each equipped with six small glass globes, enclosing 16 candle-power lamps, and one large glass globe, enclosing a 32 candle-power lamp. This system operated until 1919 when it was demolished to make way for a more modern system."

And yes, your obsessiveness is noted. You're a perfect fit around here.

Last edited by MichaelRyerson; Aug 2, 2012 at 2:05 PM. Reason: added second image
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  #8764  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2012, 2:36 PM
fhammon fhammon is offline
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Not the same mast. Notice the mushroom or rivet shaped joint visible at the same level between the 2nd and 3rd floor of the St. Charles absent from the first photo. The older mast with climbing struts doesn't have that feature.
Look closer. I suspect the newer version was collapsible telescopically at least by half for servicing.


...and furthermore, what do you see beyond the dried-out yucca stems in this Campo Santo photo from 1890?
I calculate this lighting mast (no climbing struts) to be nearly center (maybe north-western edged) to the Plaza.
Different from the Plaza church rectory fronted "climbing" mast shown earlier.

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/assets...CHS-3868B?v=hr

Last edited by fhammon; Aug 2, 2012 at 3:19 PM.
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  #8765  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2012, 3:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhammon View Post
Not the same mast. Notice the mushroom or rivet shaped joint visible at the same level between the 2nd and 3rd floor of the St. Charles absent from the first photo. The older mast with climbing struts doesn't have that feature.
Look closer. I suspect the newer version was collapsible telescopically at least by half for servicing.
I misspoke. I meant both pics are of the same mast 'location', that being the one identified as Main and Commercial Streets. I read your post as implying somehow that you'd found yet another mast in addition to those already enumerated. That one pic has some apparent differences from the other only tells me that they were taken at different times and changes (one imagines, for the better) had been made. But which pic is the earlier is open to interpretation. You have come up with an explanation based on your own interpretations of what you (personally) see in the photographs. I won't argue with you as to whether or not your conclusions are sound but I can find no evidence in the DWP archives which confirms (or denies) those conclusions. I just don't know. Maybe the earlier masts were climbable or maybe they were tilt-ups. I don't know. Maybe the later models had self adjusting arcs or maybe not. Let me tell you, in my young adulthood, my Bohemian days, I worked for a time as a projectionist in a movie house down in Newport Beach (the Balboa Theater out on the peninsula) and as it was getting a bit long in the tooth even then (1969-71ish) the equipment was dated. We worked with a couple of big old 35mm projectors that had old fasioned arc lamps. They had an automatic feed (springloaded) so that, theoretically, once you'd struck the lamp, that is run the eletrodes nearly together so that you could induce the current to leap across the gap and produce a remarkably bright light, you were able to turn your attention to threading sequential 12 minute reels of film and changing the running projector, one for the other, so that an apparently seamless movie appeared on the screen. That was the idea. But the reality was this, you always had to be aware of exactly where the electrodes were in relation to each other throughout the evening, the automatic feed being only vaguely effective. If they worked their way too far apart you lost the light, or, worse, too close and the electrodes would, literally, weld themselves together. Now this is eighty years after those 150 foot masts and their arc lights. I do not believe they had come up with a superior automatic feed to what we had in that projection booth four generations later. Hence, I believe there had to be some way, from the very first day, to inspect and adjust each arc light every single day it was in service.

I see you've added a picture. What do I see? I don't know what I see. It may be a mast mounted arc light or not. Your powers of interpretation are way better than mine. I see what you are saying but I don't see enough visual evidence to come up with all your backstory. It's a tall, thin pole with a small cross member near the top. That's it from this end. Oh, by the way, I really like this picture.

Back to you.

Last edited by MichaelRyerson; Aug 2, 2012 at 4:04 PM.
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  #8766  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2012, 4:12 PM
fhammon fhammon is offline
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The first story I heard was that a guy on horseback would ride around every day to replace the 12" electrodes which were placed end to end. Every day.
per: Fortune Favors the Brave - The Life and Times of Maj. Horace Bell. (get it - read it).
I believe it's wrong because 12" of carbon electrode doesn't burn out in a night. I believe they adjusted the gap every day.
The gap will for sure change because of the intense heat causing the ends to burn back regardless of any stabilizing feature.
The nature, design and very name of arch-light depends on gap. This gap must be maintained accurately to get the maximum effect.

Harris Newmark (1834-1916) in his book "Sixty Years in Southern California" might have a few words to say about this.
Get that and read that too. (available on-line as are Maj. Horace Bells books "Reminiscences of a Ranger: Or, Early Times in Southern California" and

On the Old West Coast, Being Further Reminiscences of a Ranger

Last edited by fhammon; Aug 2, 2012 at 4:33 PM.
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  #8767  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2012, 4:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhammon View Post
The first story I heard was that a guy on horseback would ride around every day to replace the 12" electrodes which were placed end to end. Every day.
Fortune Favors the Brave - Maj. Horace Bell biography. (get it - read it).

I believe it's wrong because 12" of carbon electrode doesn't burn out in a night. I believe they were adjusted every day.
The gap will for sure change because of the intense heat causing the ends to burn back regardless of any stabilizing feature.
The nature, design and very name of arch-light depends on gap. This gap must be maintained accurately to get the maximum effect.
Lotta variables at work on how long 12" electrodes will last. Probably most critical is what gauge are we talking about? Unknowable. Smaller gauge gonna burn faster. We used 6" electrodes (one on each side) and could just barely get two nights out of them. We ran two movies a night, but only three showings, that is, 1st movie at 6:30 pm, 2nd movie at around 8 pm and then the first movie again at around 10ish. So three movie length runs. Of course the arcs remained on throughout the evening. We would never take the chance to shut them down for intermission. So they were on maybe six hours a night and as I said we could just about get two nights out of them. So if you loaded the old arclight streetlights with 12" electrodes and struck them at 8 pm and shut them down at 6 am, you'd be asking for ten hours out of those electrodes. I'm not sure you could get two nights out of them. Maybe. As for the good Major, I can't imagine climbing one of those 150' masts and changing out the electrodes. At that height, in even a mild breeze, it would be like holding onto a fiberglass fishing pole. I would guess a small crowd of townies, loafers and layabouts followed Maj. Bell from one mast to another hoping for a cheap thrill. I hope he made a few bucks.
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  #8768  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2012, 8:11 PM
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Shulman City Hall image revisited


los angeles city hall, julius shulman 1933 reference marked

I've chosen and marked two points of reference on this image. One is the southernmost corner of the Hall of Records where it appears just above the International Exchange and Savings Bank (marked with a red dot). Secondly, I've chosen the ninth verticle window (technically this is actually the tenth verticle window but I'm discounting the verticle window closest to the corner of the building) in the Hall of Justice where it appears directly above the cupola of the Baker Block (again a red dot).


Using those points of reference, I've now laid out an azimuth from each point on this 1927 image of the civic center...


los angeles civic center 1927 with reference

which gives us this intersection which seems to correspond to the Aliso side of the main train platform at Union Station. This is admittedly a somewhat imprecise method but I think it gives a good approximation of Mr. Shulman's likely position.

Staying with the red dot theme, here is, approximately speaking, Mr. Shulman's spot. I think.


los angeles union station, julius shulman

Actually, I think the little structure on top of the train platform wasn't there when Mr. Shulman exposed his film. I think the rebar we see in the image was going to be used to anchor this structure. So he was standing back from the front edge looking across the foot print of this little building.

Last edited by MichaelRyerson; Aug 2, 2012 at 10:31 PM.
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  #8769  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2012, 8:29 PM
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Originally Posted by fhammon View Post
Notice the mushroom or rivet shaped joint visible at the same level between the 2nd and 3rd floor of the St. Charles absent from the first photo.
That first picture is actually an illustration, not a photograph. While it appears extremely accurate and was probably based on a real photograph, there still exists the probability that some aspects of the scene were altered for clarity. Certainly the people and vehicles were altered to some extent; at least some of them would have been blurry in a source photo. The road is also remarkably flat and consistent, especially compared to the real photo. It looks more like pavement than dirt. This might be the artist's alteration, or maybe the road really was better. It's possible some minor alteration was made when illustrating the mast as well. In any case, I think the illustration is from somewhat later than the photo.
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  #8770  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2012, 8:54 PM
fhammon fhammon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProphetM View Post
That first picture is actually an illustration, not a photograph. While it appears extremely accurate and was probably based on a real photograph, there still exists the probability that some aspects of the scene were altered for clarity. Certainly the people and vehicles were altered to some extent; at least some of them would have been blurry in a source photo. The road is also remarkably flat and consistent, especially compared to the real photo. It looks more like pavement than dirt. This might be the artist's alteration, or maybe the road really was better. It's possible some minor alteration was made when illustrating the mast as well. In any case, I think the illustration is from somewhat later than the photo.
Fair enough for the sake of historical accuracy. To tell you the truth, I don't remember ever seeing the original unaltered (digitally altered?) photo before. We'll have to ask brother Scott where it came from.

ETA:
PM sent.

Last edited by fhammon; Aug 3, 2012 at 1:21 AM.
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  #8771  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2012, 9:26 PM
BifRayRock BifRayRock is offline
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Originally Posted by kanhawk View Post
The zoo would probably be charged the child endangerment today for that. Still, that cracked me up.


Are you implying that the toddler should be wearing a helmet?

_____________________

Elephants have a long history with noirish Los Angeles. Here they stroll down Broadway heading toward Third St., ca. 1905


At the beach, in compliance with LA's leash laws. (Date and location unknown)


Taking advantage of Mueller Bros. Car Wash, 6380 Sunset Boulevard (date unknown) Tuesday is "Lady Elephant day, Half Price!" (no coupons accepted - void where prohibited by law):


_______________________

Child's play. Don't try this at home! Selig Zoo's carefully planned regimen of work and play prepares both toddler and juvenile pachyderm for strenuous demands of adulthood!




_______________________

Is there really any doubt that elephants can be man's best friend?



Helping keep Selig Zoo presentable, or hamming it up (an impromptu audition for a role in the Wizard of Oz)?
all photos from lapl

Last edited by BifRayRock; Aug 2, 2012 at 11:30 PM.
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  #8772  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2012, 10:52 PM
BifRayRock BifRayRock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
One of the most extraordinary sets ever built in Hollywood.
D.W. Griffith's vision of Babylon for his epic Intolerance 1916.

D.W. Griffith
The elephant sculptures, pictured above, are attributed to the work of Italian-born sculptor, Federico A. Giorgi. It may be interesting to some that he is also reputed to have been responsible for the stone castings that decorate the arches, eaves and pedestal of the found at the Valhalla Memorial Park Cemetery's Aviation Shrine - and the exterior of downtown's ca. 1918 - Million Dollar Theater. Goirgi is buried at Valhalla. http://www.backyardtouristsla.com/ca...orth-hollywood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valhall..._Park_Cemetery (It was another Italian-born sculptor, Carlo Romanelli, who is allegedly responsible for the elephant sculptures that adorned the Selig Zoo. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-lo...b_1565154.html

1969, yes it is a crash site! (Adjacent to Burbank/Bob Hope Airport)
lapl

lapl

google

http://www.flickr.com

1962
lapl

http://mixedmeters.com/2009/10/milli...sculpture.html

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  #8773  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2012, 12:11 AM
Chuckaluck Chuckaluck is offline
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Broadway heading toward Third St., ca. 1905

lapl

_______________________

Awning proliferation = need for shade? (Shadows and overcoats may indicate cool weather or just the trend to overdress.) One or two shade trees too much of a nuisance?

More awnings on Broadway, 1939
USC digital

A view of Eight street, circa 1920, that may not have been posted here before:
http://www.photographium.com/8th-str...alifornia-1920

Last edited by Chuckaluck; Aug 3, 2012 at 3:14 PM.
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  #8774  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2012, 12:18 AM
Chuckaluck Chuckaluck is offline
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Wonderful shot of Fifth and Olive Streets, circa 1910. HandsomeStranger posted a smaller version here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=4301 I don't generally associate the orb laden street lighting with LA. Captures a pre-noir era that it hard to appreciate. At least I see some vegetation on the right!

http://www.photographium.com/5th-str...alifornia-1910

Take a peek inside Clunes?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/theatre...3586/lightbox/

Last edited by Chuckaluck; Aug 3, 2012 at 1:49 AM.
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  #8775  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2012, 1:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuckaluck View Post
Wonderful shot of Fifth and Olive Streets, circa 1910. Don't believe I have seen it on this thread. I don't generally associate the orb laden street lighting with LA. Captures a pre-noir era that it hard to appreciate. At least I see some vegetation on the right!
At one time those were the standard street light pretty much throughout downtown, on every street. Hard to believe. By the way, those are great shots,
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  #8776  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2012, 2:00 AM
Los Angeles Past Los Angeles Past is offline
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Originally Posted by fhammon View Post
Fair enough for the sake of historical accuracy. To tell you the truth, I don't remember ever seeing the original unaltered (digitally altered?) photo before. We'll have to ask brother Scott where it came from.

ETA:
PM sent.
I wish I knew where the original photo could be had. It's a lovely view of old Temple Square in its heyday!
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  #8777  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2012, 5:58 AM
Chuckaluck Chuckaluck is offline
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Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson View Post
At one time those were the standard street light pretty much throughout downtown, on every street. Hard to believe. By the way, those are great shots,
Thanks, but you fellows set the bar pretty high, making your posts a tough act to follow! Regarding the street lighting, it smacks more of La Belle Epoch de Los Angeles than the ubiquitous goth-noir styles found in so many Movies. Wonder why they fell out of favor. Too fragile? Costly to replace or maintain? Too passe for a metropolis looking toward the future and its own identity? Disfavored for use during WW2?

googlehttp://www.flickr.comhttp://www.google.com/




_________________________________

Wondering about the Liberty Theater, which may or may not have been at 136 S. Main Street. The image below (note street light) indicates Third and Main, but printing mistakes have been known to happen and businesses can move to a different locations. The '15 directory lists residences of several Liberty Theater employees, but not the theater itself. Splitting the distance, the '23 directory lists the Liberty Theater's Manager at 266 S. Main. http://rescarta.lapl.org:8080/ResCar...ch_doc=theater

The source notes for this post card indicate it bears a 1918 postmark and is addressed to a party in New York.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/theatreposts/5716622361

Cinema Treasures pegs this theater at First and Main: http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/3878/ Some of the posts seem supportive of this address and suggest Lady Liberty shed some of her inhibitions on First Street.

Last edited by Chuckaluck; Aug 3, 2012 at 4:45 PM.
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  #8778  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2012, 3:32 PM
Chuckaluck Chuckaluck is offline
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Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
Another curiosity from ebay.....anyone recognize this rather stately apartment building?



ebay

caption: "Arrived in Los Angeles." Jan 31-1927
___
Original image disappeared - 2012?



Could this be the same edifice?

Beaudry and Sixth?
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=2716
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  #8779  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2012, 5:00 PM
Los Angeles Past Los Angeles Past is offline
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I couldn't find the original of that modified photo, but I did find this similar view that's pretty darned awesome. Look closely at the high-res version (link below). There's actually advertising on the lower portion of the arc light mast! (It looks like 'REID'S' to me.)

Wikimedia Commons (High-res 2737x1613 version here.)


And here's perhaps the original version of a previously-posted pic of Temple and Main c.1880. In this stereoscopic view, you can clearly see the top of the U.S. Hotel's four-storey-tall flag pole.

Wikimedia Commons (High-res 2737x1446 version here.)

-Scott

Last edited by Los Angeles Past; Dec 25, 2017 at 10:02 AM. Reason: Repaired broken image links
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  #8780  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2012, 7:24 PM
Chuckaluck Chuckaluck is offline
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
Here are some pics of the Philharmonic Auditorium. The LA Philharmonic played there until the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion opened in the mid 1960s.

This building replaced an older building called Hazard's Pavilion and was dedicated in 1906. For a while, silent films were shown there, and it was known as Clune's Auditorium. It became the Philharmonic Auditorium in 1920, or thereabouts.

Here it is in 1906:

USC Archive

Here's the interior of the auditorium in 1928:

USC Archive

In the 1930s, it was remodeled into a restrained Deco Moderne style. Here it is in 1984:

USC Archive

In 1985 it was demolished to make way for an office building, but those plans fell through. It has since remained a surface parking lot. And as mentioned before, that parking lot is the site of the planned Park Fifth development, a hotel/residential and commercial high-rise development, but I'm not sure if those plans have been put on hold or canceled.
Hazard's - then Clune's - then the Philharmonic? Last two photos dovetail with wonderful shot of Fifth and Olive street, posted here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=8776

How about the "Currier and Ives" treatment? Date unk. Can almost hear sleigh bells in the background.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/theatreposts

Auditorium under construction, ca. '06
http://www.flickr.com/photos/

Unvarnished version, ca 1910:
USC Digital

Source dates these as "1905."
USC Digital

and http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=8776
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