Detached Townhomes & What Houston Is Doing RIght

[RC14]

I for one, kind of like these "detached townhomes." I think we could use something like this here in Salt Lake for example where housing costs are becoming unaffordable for people who are from here. I hear from people who don't like the idea of renting because they want to own something and build equity but they don't necessarily need a large yard.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by The North One

I feel like LA suffers from the same exact problem. It looks really impressive, dense and urban from above, but then you get to the street and it's like this: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0262...7i16384!8i8192

The worst part is LA neighborhoods have alleys, they could have easily hid all the parking but the developers just didn't give a damn.

Whats interesting about this picture is when I go into the Alleys behind these homes I feel like im in the city, but the front is suburbs...

WOW.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by edale

LA builds a ton of these, too. They call them 'small lot subdivisions'.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1084...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0890...7i16384!8i8192

Yea, they're everywhere in the city and suburbs now. Even places like Van Nuys have alot of these new townhouses.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by The North One

I feel like LA suffers from the same exact problem. It looks really impressive, dense and urban from above, but then you get to the street and it's like this: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0262...7i16384!8i8192

The worst part is LA neighborhoods have alleys, they could have easily hid all the parking but the developers just didn't give a damn.

f

[mhays]

Originally Posted by JManc

A $600k+ townhouse with only one parking space will never fly in car happy Houston. When we were townhouse shopping, it had to have space for two cars side by side (we have three). Our house has a single width drive way (built around a 150 year old tree) and it's a pain in the ass.

As for shared driveways, they have their downsides such as sharing it with a shitty neighbor. My aunt had this problem.

Even Houston must have a SOME people who want a semi-urban lifestyle, and would prefer more yard in lieu of a second space. And obviously single people and one+kids families must exist!

Some people aren't in Houston because they love its lifestyle. Some people (in any city) are there DESPITE the predominant lifestyle. Maybe it's for a job, or to stay close to family, whatever.

Further, with one fewer parking space, smaller units in general will tend to pencil much better. Start offering smaller townhouses and see what happens.

So why not? Covenants?

[JManc]

Originally Posted by mhays

Even Houston must have a SOME people who want a semi-urban lifestyle, and would prefer more yard in lieu of a second space. And obviously single people and one+kids families must exist!

Some people aren't in Houston because they love its lifestyle. Some people (in any city) are there DESPITE the predominant lifestyle. Maybe it's for a job, or to stay close to family, whatever.

Further, with one fewer parking space, smaller units in general will tend to pencil much better. Start offering smaller townhouses and see what happens.

So why not? Covenants?

Most of these are fairly decent sized townhomes; 3 bedrooms and up. Even if someone were more urban oriented, having ample parking is probably still ideal should they want maximize appreciation and sell at some point. There should be smaller options (2 bedroom or less) that aren't as demanding for parking but demand is still probably soft...though growing.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by The North One

I feel like LA suffers from the same exact problem. It looks really impressive, dense and urban from above, but then you get to the street and it's like this: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0262...7i16384!8i8192

The worst part is LA neighborhoods have alleys, they could have easily hid all the parking but the developers just didn't give a damn.

Though I despise your whataboutism, I will take time to point out that your example is an inapt analogy to the subject of this thread. First, the article about Houston refers to new construction, but your example is of decades-old housing built in the peak of the suburban dream, and second, the article refers specifically to Houston's Inner Loop, its urban core, but your example is of a random neighborhood many miles from LA's urban core.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

I guess ask the people that have purchased or rented the 75000 units built in central Houston.

What's the point? LOL.

I'm not saying the townhouses shouldn't be built, I'm saying, from an urbanist/walkability perspective, they have no functional difference from a McMansion in the Woodlands. The primary difference is likely no kids. They're just in-town because DINKs and empty nesters tend to prioritize proximity to stuff rather than good public schools, playspace and kids sports.

So you can build 75 million of these townhouses, but if they're all auto-oriented, no functional change.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I'm not saying the townhouses shouldn't be built, I'm saying, from an urbanist/walkability perspective, they have no functional difference from a McMansion in the Woodlands. The primary difference is likely no kids. They're just in-town because DINKs and empty nesters tend to prioritize proximity to stuff rather than good public schools, playspace and kids sports.

So you can build 75 million of these townhouses, but if they're all auto-oriented, no functional change.

I don't know Texas, but my general impression is people pay less attention to public school districts in the South. Part of this is public school districts tend to be more expansive/less "gerrymandered" than in the north. Part of this is that even suburban areas tend to be semi-integrated (the Woodlands is around 20% non-white, for example), and part of that is just more people use private schools in general.

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by The North One

I feel like LA suffers from the same exact problem. It looks really impressive, dense and urban from above, but then you get to the street and it's like this: https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0262...7i16384!8i8192

The worst part is LA neighborhoods have alleys, they could have easily hid all the parking but the developers just didn't give a damn.

The developers provided parking in the alley. There are more cars and parking in the alley than are in the street facing parking spots. This is directly behind your google street view image. Also the alley has overhead electrical wires and trash storage, instead of being on the street.
https://goo.gl/maps/JM8FQRZud7muReCT9

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by craigs

Though I despise your whataboutism, I will take time to point out that your example is an inapt analogy to the subject of this thread. First, the article about Houston refers to new construction, but your example is of decades-old housing built in the peak of the suburban dream, and second, the article refers specifically to Houston's Inner Loop, its urban core, but your example is of a random neighborhood many miles from LA's urban core.

I was gonna say something too.
He always cherry picks. It's not really random to him, I bet he spent awhile looking for his example. He's got some weird thing against LA and California for some reason. LA had nothing to do with this thread lol.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by eschaton

But given the limitations, somewhere like this is becoming pretty close to a rowhouse neighborhood.

I like seeing stuff like this. Despite the (very valid) criticisms of the architecture and public realm, it feels eclectic and haphazard. It's no Brooklyn, but all the same it's got its own charm that is unmistakably Houston:

https://goo.gl/maps/y4i8WzWs1FTEBA9R8
https://goo.gl/maps/NTDjuAZYypdfcmGh6
https://goo.gl/maps/htGx1bidj3VK4MLA9

Besides, it still represents an improvement over what was there before. Throw up a few more mid-rises with street-fronting retail on the main streets and you've got a functional urban neighbourhood.

[Camelback]

Originally Posted by craigs

Though I despise your whataboutism, I will take time to point out that your example is an inapt analogy to the subject of this thread. First, the article about Houston refers to new construction, but your example is of decades-old housing built in the peak of the suburban dream, and second, the article refers specifically to Houston's Inner Loop, its urban core, but your example is of a random neighborhood many miles from LA's urban core.

Third, I zoomed out from his street view image and noticed cars were parked in the alley. So I explored the alley and it's full of cars and reserved resident parking provided and built by the developer and probably at code at the time of construction of I'm guessing 1950 to 1960? It looks mid-century to me.

[Steely Dan]

the open ditches and discontinuous sidewalks in these houston streetviews always throw me for a loop.

that's the kind of thing you might see way out in the boondocks 30+ miles from downtown in most cities, but these are from inner city hoods only 2 miles from downtown houston.


are open ditches a common thing in inner city houston, or are they just a quirk of the rice-military section of town?

also, how are they not huge mosquito breeding grounds? from that perspective alone i would think the city would want to divert its run-off into proper sewers.

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Yeah I wish these were built up to the street and maybe there was an alley in the back of these like you see in Northeastern/Mid-Atlantic cities.

But then you'd only have 2 parking spots, with a smaller lot, and without any increase in density. I mean, it's pretty impressive that they can fit up to 6 parking spots into a 20ft wide lot, aesthetics not withstanding. A lot of suburban families can have 3-4 cars, plus you can have guests over who don't have to find street parking. It's a selling point for these homes.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I'm not saying the townhouses shouldn't be built, I'm saying, from an urbanist/walkability perspective, they have no functional difference from a McMansion in the Woodlands. The primary difference is likely no kids. They're just in-town because DINKs and empty nesters tend to prioritize proximity to stuff rather than good public schools, playspace and kids sports.

So you can build 75 million of these townhouses, but if they're all auto-oriented, no functional change.

Functional difference in housing? Yea, people move in town to be closer to jobs and fun things.

Let's be honest, you've never been there. I've lived there and recently just spent the weekend in my buddy's townhome. We walked a few blocks to get the convenient store for Powerades for the morning after, we walked a few blocks to have dinner, and then had some drinks. You can't really do that in The Woodlands from a McMansion.....

No one is saying these are urban, but clearly building centrally is better where people can reverse commute, have shorter trips, and have a little bit less leapfrog development.

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by Camelback

Third, I zoomed out from his street view image and noticed cars were parked in the alley. So I explored the alley and it's full of cars and reserved resident parking provided and built by the developer and probably at code at the time of construction of I'm guessing 1950 to 1960? It looks mid-century to me.

Yeah, and those aren't SFHs, they're much higher density 8-12 unit apartment buildings on smallish city lots, that still have to provide off street parking for residents. What a totally random comment that was... That area is very walkable too, with a major commercial artery and a stop on the Expo line, and it's still relatively affordable. If anything we should be building more of these. A lot of cities are lacking this kind of medium scale multifamily.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by badrunner

Yeah, and those aren't SFHs, they're much higher density 8-12 unit apartment buildings on smallish city lots, that still have to provide off street parking for residents. What a totally random comment that was... That area is very walkable too, with a major commercial artery and a stop on the Expo line, and it's still relatively affordable. If anything we should be building more of these. A lot of cities are lacking this kind of medium scale multifamily.

Don't talk logic . He won't like it. On a side note, I'm excited to see all the changes in Palms. So many 6 to 8 story buildings uc or proposed. I would consider living there.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I don't know Texas, but my general impression is people pay less attention to public school districts in the South. Part of this is public school districts tend to be more expansive/less "gerrymandered" than in the north. Part of this is that even suburban areas tend to be semi-integrated (the Woodlands is around 20% non-white, for example), and part of that is just more people use private schools in general.

Southern cities also have a lot of private "Christian" schools established purposefully to keep white kids out of those integrated public school systems. This robs public schools of high-performing students and saps the political momentum for improving public schools...

Northern cities have Catholic schools too of course, but those were usually established for non-racial reasons and they are not the first choice for parents outside of core cities or first-ring suburbs with a white ethnic tradition.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

Functional difference in housing? Yea, people move in town to be closer to jobs and fun things.

No functional difference. Two-car, attached garages and no sidewalks. Attached two-car garages aren't auto-lite, they're the same autocentricity you get in exurban America.

If you built a house 40 miles outside of Houston, you'd build the same attached parking. In the Woodlands they're driving to soccer practice, in the Inner Loop they're driving to a restaurant. These buildings add density, but don't functionally change the environment.

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

Let's be honest, you've never been there.

Nope, I've been to Houston a bunch of times. And irrelevent. I've also seen the exact same stuff in Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte and Nashville. It's the same story. In-town densification for DINKs and empty nesters where schools don't matter, but no functional change.