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  #81  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 6:42 PM
homebucket homebucket is online now
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Austin is one of the top 10 tech markets in the US, and is by far the most affordable one (not sure how it compares to Atlanta and Ottawa though), so it's not surprising it's only going to become less affordable as more people move there for work.

According to CBRE, these are the top tech talent markets:


https://www.cbre.us/research-and-rep...h-america-2021
     
     
  #82  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 6:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Live close to what, though? Austin isn't a large or centralized metro. There are nice neighborhoods all around Austin. My friend in Austin lives on a lake, in an attractive older suburban area.
Lol, “live close to what”, that’s adorable. You just wouldn’t understand.

Quote:
And the issue isn't age, it's infrastructure. The infrastructure in some of the in-town neighborhoods of Austin and Nashville are basically developing-world standards. No curbs, open drainage ditches, no sidewalks, no transit, leaning utility poles, etc.
You’re just telling me you don’t travel to certain areas but drainage ditches, lack of sidewalks, no transit, and leaning utility poles is what older, working class neighborhoods look like across parts of the US/ Texas. Shotgun shack neighborhoods in places like Austin, Waco, Dallas, and Houston are gentrifying.
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  #83  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 6:47 PM
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
Yeah, it reminds me of rural Appalachia. How is there a supertall going up just a mile or two away from this? It just doesn't make sense to me.
And it doesn’t have to make sense to you. Why would people be urban pioneers in Brooklyn in the 90s? Why would people be okay with the amount trash in the streets and sidewalks of Manhattan?

You just aren’t the market because many folks just simply don’t care or mind there aren’t any sidewalks. Utilities work just fine and people either drive or take ride share in these areas in 2021.
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  #84  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 7:07 PM
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I don’t see what the big deal is regarding sidewalks in residential neighborhoods. I used to live in Travis Heights (South Austin) and the walkability was great. You could get downtown in a matter of minutes without sidewalks. Plus a lot of the heritage oaks grow too close to the street to allow for sidewalks. I would prefer greenery over a 4’ wide concrete slab any day.
     
     
  #85  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 7:09 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasPlaya View Post
And it doesn’t have to make sense to you. Why would people be urban pioneers in Brooklyn in the 90s? Why would people be okay with the amount trash in the streets and sidewalks of Manhattan?

You just aren’t the market because many folks just simply don’t care or mind there aren’t any sidewalks. Utilities work just fine and people either drive or take ride share in these areas in 2021.
What I meant was it doesn't make sense that such intense urbanization is occurring in a city whose appeal obviously isn't its urbanity. A 1000+ footer going up a mile from a neighborhood that looks like it could be rural Kentucky is odd, just from an urban development standpoint.

I enjoyed my visit to Austin. I understand why people want to live there. I just don't understand why its core is booming like a Chinese city when much of the rest of the city is suburban, low density, and with few urban amenities.
     
     
  #86  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 7:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
And the issue isn't age, it's infrastructure. The infrastructure in some of the in-town neighborhoods of Austin and Nashville are basically developing-world standards. No curbs, open drainage ditches, no sidewalks, no transit, leaning utility poles, etc.
You have to realize that the south was poor/ undeveloped for quite awhile and 50-60 years ago, much of these areas you are referring to were semi-ruralish/ outlying areas even if the city annexed them. They were redeveloped in a matter of 20 or so years at a far more rapid pace than the city can come in and upgrade infrastructure. Plus, the city is broke and probably doesn't want to fork over the extra cash if the residents aren't complaining. My wife and I looked at a townhouse where there were the ditches and jacked up utility poles but we really didn't care. Anything built recently has to have sidewalks though but older houses are grandfathered in as not requiring them.

Meanwhile, 100+ years ago, northern cities were pretty much fully developed and affluent.
     
     
  #87  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 7:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edale View Post
What I meant was it doesn't make sense that such intense urbanization is occurring in a city whose appeal obviously isn't its urbanity. A 1000+ footer going up a mile from a neighborhood that looks like it could be rural Kentucky is odd, just from an urban development standpoint.

I enjoyed my visit to Austin. I understand why people want to live there. I just don't understand why its core is booming like a Chinese city when much of the rest of the city is suburban, low density, and with few urban amenities.
I've never been to Austin myself. What'd you think of its public transit network and walkability/pedestrian friendliness?
     
     
  #88  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 7:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edale View Post
What I meant was it doesn't make sense that such intense urbanization is occurring in a city whose appeal obviously isn't its urbanity. A 1000+ footer going up a mile from a neighborhood that looks like it could be rural Kentucky is odd, just from an urban development standpoint.

I enjoyed my visit to Austin. I understand why people want to live there. I just don't understand why its core is booming like a Chinese city when much of the rest of the city is suburban, low density, and with few urban amenities.
“Intense urbanization” is happening in very few areas compared to the overall city. “Urbanization” in the Texas/Austin sense just means proximity to the core and has nothing to do with getting around. Building a residential high rise just blocks away from shotgun stacks is just how it’s been in Texas for the last two decades.
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  #89  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 7:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
I've never been to Austin myself. What'd you think of its public transit network and walkability/pedestrian friendliness?
Regarding public transit to be built:
https://projectconnect.com/docs/libr...rsn=768e4c75_2
     
     
  #90  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 7:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IluvATX View Post
Regarding public transit to be built:
https://projectconnect.com/docs/libr...rsn=768e4c75_2
Thanks! Looks like it's mostly busses at the moment and the Red Line which is commuter rail. Upon closer examination, it looks like the Red Line only gets 2200 weekly riders on average.

Pedestrian connectivity to the stations seems to be... lacking.
https://goo.gl/maps/eaSLsRMUvEGSjyYUA

The other lines are proposed as a part of Project Connect but I don't really see any projected timelines.

I wonder if it's gotten better since this article was written.

Quote:
Austin's Commuter Rail Is A Monument To Government Waste
Jul 29, 2016,01:06pm EDT

Austin, TX--Last Saturday morning, while stumbling upon an Austin rail station, I was able to imagine at micro level what it must be like to visit one of China’s ghost cities. I was in Leander, an Austin suburb that has the northernmost stop on the metro area’s commuter rail system, when I spotted a multi-acre station plopped across what was essentially a rural area. After parking in the empty lot, I got out and walked around, to find a clean, well-landscaped facility that had not one human in sight. The info center was locked, the train platforms were empty, and no trains arrived. There was even a computerized voice humming out service updates over the platform speakers, to an absent audience. In fairness, the station was closed that day until 4pm. But that just begged the question—why would a train station be closed all Saturday morning and afternoon in a major metro area? Meanwhile, the platform offered an unobstructed view of adjacent US-183, where, in the course of 10 minutes, dozens of cars passed by in each direction.

...

The project opened amid a storm of controversy, thanks to construction issues that, according to Politifact.com, escalated the final tab from $90 million to $148 million--$140 million for construction plus $8 million for loan interest on the trains. In the opening months, the line received just 800 riders per weekday. This has since risen to 2,900 passenger trips per weekday, or about 1,500 riders, but that still is just .075% of the metro population, which sits above 2 million. The line accounts for 2.6% of Austin's transit ridership, while using 8.5% of the annual operating expenses for transit.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbe...h=6e8dbc11f18a
     
     
  #91  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 7:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IluvATX View Post
I don’t see what the big deal is regarding sidewalks in residential neighborhoods. I used to live in Travis Heights (South Austin) and the walkability was great. You could get downtown in a matter of minutes without sidewalks. Plus a lot of the heritage oaks grow too close to the street to allow for sidewalks. I would prefer greenery over a 4’ wide concrete slab any day.
Travis Heights doesn't really seem that walkable unless you're near Congress Ave. I was using an electric scooter in TH the last time I was in Austin, and I rode through some cell service dead zone which caused the scooter to become inoperable (there were a bunch of other discarded ones, so it happened to a lot of people apparently). Since that scooter no longer worked, I had a choice of walking a mile back to Congress, walking a couple miles to downtown, or finding the next closest scooter, which was about 1/2 mile away. I don't even think the area had a bus route.
     
     
  #92  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 8:09 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Travis Heights doesn't really seem that walkable unless you're near Congress Ave. I was using an electric scooter in TH the last time I was in Austin, and I rode through some cell service dead zone which caused the scooter to become inoperable (there were a bunch of other discarded ones, so it happened to a lot of people apparently). Since that scooter no longer worked, I had a choice of walking a mile back to Congress, walking a couple miles to downtown, or finding the next closest scooter, which was about 1/2 mile away. I don't even think the area had a bus route.
Travis Heights is a wealthy, hilly old single family neighborhood surrounding by major thoroughfares with bus access.

Walkable is subjective and the people live there walk to Congress for a bite to eat or grab some coffee but it’s not a neighborhood where people commute to work or grab a bus downtown. And people love it and it’s a highly desirable neighborhood.
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  #93  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 8:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^ i don't know how the data breaks down city vs. burbs, but both the dallas and houston MSAs were bluer in 2020 than they were in 2016.

in fact, the Dallas MSA saw one of the bigger blue shifts in the nation among large metros (though still very purple overall because of its much redder starting point).



blue margin by election year:

metro area: --- 2016 -- 2020 -- change

Dallas MSA: ---- -6.68 -- +1.16 -- +7.84

Houston MSA: -- -1.06 -- +1.06 -- +2.12
Which is fair but doesn’t capture the gains made and then lost at the local level.
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  #94  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 10:15 PM
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A very WSJ-type article in today's Wall St. Journal:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/austins...=hp_listc_pos1
     
     
  #95  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasPlaya View Post
Because people care more about jobs than an urbanish standard of living.

I understand this forum likes to complain about Austin, Nashville, Atlanta, etc but it’s what the people want. And people like living in Austin.
Don't confuse wants with options that are merely available. Someone may want to live in NYC. There is certainly no shortage of good paying jobs. But the cost of housing is so high, partly due to NIMBYism restricting new supply, that folks are forced to settle for second tier cities like Nashville in Atlanta.

Permanent WFH is now a real possibility for a segment of the population. They can't live wherever they want, but are still limited by housing affordability.
     
     
  #96  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 10:24 PM
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Without sidewalks, do cars always get out of pedestrians' way, or is it the other way around?

It's really bad to have that situation near the core, and not great anywhere else.
     
     
  #97  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by C. View Post
Don't confuse wants with options that are merely available. Someone may want to live in NYC. There is certainly no shortage of good paying jobs. But the cost of housing is so high, partly due to NIMBYism restricting new supply, that folks are forced to settle for second tier cities like Nashville in Atlanta.

Permanent WFH is now a real possibility for a segment of the population. They can't live wherever they want, but are still limited by housing affordability.
Yeah, between 2010 and 2020 NYC grew more than the three largest cities in Texas combined.
     
     
  #98  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by llamaorama View Post
I think the lack of services in expensive gentrifying old areas of Austin and Nashville is an outlier. Plus these aren’t huge neighborhoods, how many total people have moved into these teardown and replace townhouses on streets with culverts next to warehouses? Maybe this is like the cryptocurrency of real estate- there’s a running fad and combined with a small percentage of the population being excessively loaded with money you get frivolous things like this?

People in Georgetown(the Texas one) and Round Rock do value infrastructure and services. Here in the DFW there seems to be a pretty high standard for these things.
This. Most of the "urbanization" in the City of Austin is occurring downtown and along the major streets like Congress, Lamar, Burnett, and Riverside. Otherwise, it's suburban single family neighborhoods and apartments.

The "cryptocurrency of real estate" is an interesting moniker as people with money like to build cool/odd houses and old working class neighborhoods/old industrial areas gives you a good bang for your buck.
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Last edited by TexasPlaya; Dec 1, 2021 at 11:28 PM.
     
     
  #99  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2021, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by C. View Post
Don't confuse wants with options that are merely available. Someone may want to live in NYC. There is certainly no shortage of good paying jobs. But the cost of housing is so high, partly due to NIMBYism restricting new supply, that folks are forced to settle for second tier cities like Nashville in Atlanta.

Permanent WFH is now a real possibility for a segment of the population. They can't live wherever they want, but are still limited by housing affordability.
Is it not the same thing in the real world? NYC is such an outlier and is very much romanticized. I'm talking about real life not imagined life.
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  #100  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2021, 12:08 AM
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IMO that Austin neighborhood looks fine , don’t see the problem
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