Commuter Rail/Regional Rail in Canada

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by someone123

Not sure where this should be categorized but the previously twinned track in Halifax that got ripped up years ago is being restored:

This is one of those areas where there was a pretty straightforward irritant in the city yet there was no progress for decades and many of the proposed solutions that got a lot of airtime in the local media made no sense. There is a container terminal in South End Halifax served by a fully grade-separated rail line yet a portion of the containers there get loaded onto trucks that then barrel through downtown.

It's unclear what this would mean for commuter rail (probably nothing immediate in practice?) but I think in the long run if the physical infrastructure is kept in a better, higher capacity state there are more possibilities.

I highly doubt CN is doing for commuter rail, but doing it would be good if commuter rail ever comes there. Mind you, there could be backroom conversations between the city and CN about the needed infrastructure to make commuter rail possible.

[Loco101]

Did anybody notice that the Ontario Government announced that passenger rail service will be returning in Northeastern Ontario? Apparantly it will run from Toronto to Timmins (Porcupine to be exact). Nobody here believes that it will actually happen.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Did anybody notice that the Ontario Government announced that passenger rail service will be returning in Northeastern Ontario? Apparantly it will run from Toronto to Timmins (Porcupine to be exact). Nobody here believes that it will actually happen.

There has been lots in the news, but no actual timeline or date of opening that I am aware of.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by someone123

I did Google walking directions and its 1.8 km from the station to the first intersection with stuff. I just wonder why it's not.. nicer. One problem around there is poor pedestrian connectivity and the rail line contributes to that. Proper crossings are infrequent and a lot of them are at-grade, even Highway 7.

Canada seems to spend way too little on infrastructure. There are so many obvious problems even in expensive built up parts of major metro areas. We have the same issues around here, possibly worse because some of those crappy at-grade rail crossings carry lots more freight traffic (my impression is most of these north-south GO rail lines are not that busy with freight if they carry any at all).

Another problem the 905 specifically including Markham is the huge footprints of these developments. I understand why they make sense financially for developers but I don't think it's good for the cities in the long run. Markham could have done so much more by really taking the reins and demanding fine-grained, more modern infrastructure here (including prepping areas for more automation).

Development is pushing towards Unionville GO. It's not going to happen overnight. I would say Downtown Markham (excluding the office parks) is built to a higher standard for 905 masterplans.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8494...7i16384!8i8192

and it probably has more in common with this than it doesn't

https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2827...7i16384!8i8192

The atmosphere is so different. I don't see landscape maturity and additional development bringing Markham up to par with Coquitlam Centre (which itself is only a few blocks with plenty of room to grow)

[someone123]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Development is pushing towards Unionville GO. It's not going to happen overnight. I would say Downtown Markham (excluding the office parks) is built to a higher standard for 905 masterplans.

Definitely not overnight. If you go back in time in streetview you will see this area had already begun to take shape 10 years ago. I've passed by there for a couple decades and it seems like this concept dates from maybe the mid-late 2000's. So if it's another 10 years off that's maybe 25 years to wait to be able to walk to the train.

I think Coquitlam Centre is miles better than this part of Markham although I didn't have such a comparison in mind (why not compare large greenfield developments in rapidly growing major metro areas to the best neighbourhoods? It might be 60% as good as Coquitlam Centre but Coquitlam is maybe 40% as good as a real city). You can walk from Lincoln SkyTrain to a few blocks of OK mixed use condo developments. Of course the Coquitlam mall itself still sucks and doesn't integrate properly with the train station. In a lot of countries (or New Westminster) the train would go right to the mall, not at the other end of a sea of parking. I am sure there is some plan to improve this but how old is the Evergreen extension as a concept? It is too bad because around here so many are priced out of downtown and so they must put up with this simulacrum.

I bet these areas all still have 20th century style servicing like loud large garbage trucks that drive around once a week.

[casper]

Originally Posted by someone123

Definitely not overnight. If you go back in time in streetview you will see this area had already begun to take shape 10 years ago. I've passed by there for a couple decades and it seems like this concept dates from maybe the mid-late 2000's. So if it's another 10 years off that's maybe 25 years to wait to be able to walk to the train.

I think Coquitlam Centre is miles better than this part of Markham although I didn't have such a comparison in mind (why not compare large greenfield developments in rapidly growing major metro areas to the best neighbourhoods? It might be 60% as good as Coquitlam Centre but Coquitlam is maybe 40% as good as a real city). You can walk from Lincoln SkyTrain to a few blocks of OK mixed use condo developments. Of course the Coquitlam mall itself still sucks and doesn't integrate properly with the train station. In a lot of countries (or New Westminster) the train would go right to the mall, not at the other end of a sea of parking. I am sure there is some plan to improve this but how old is the Evergreen extension as a concept? It is too bad because around here so many are priced out of downtown and so they must put up with this simulacrum.

I bet these areas all still have 20th century style servicing like loud large garbage trucks that drive around once a week.

I think we are more likely to see the mall going to the station. New Westminster was like that. When that station was originally build there was nothing there but a railyard. The development can after the fact.

Brentwood is also a good example. They basically filled in the parking lot between the mall and skytrain with development. I suspect Loughead at the end of the day would be the same.

Marine Drive is the same way.

I think the theme should be skytrain comes first, you then do zoning to encourage the development to absorb the station.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Hold on, let me see if I'm keeping up with all of this. So first public funds provide for the initial construction of much of the country's rail infrastructure prior to it being given over to the (largely foreign owned) private section to profit off of, then said private sector abandons passenger service to focus on the more profitable freight side. Then the private corps are intransigent toward requests for public use of the infrastructure for passenger services and downgrades the infrastructure to save money. And now, we're offering additional tax dollars to rebuild infrastructure they negligently dismantled with no guarantee of any public transit concessions?

Just want to make sure I understand all of this correctly.

I believe you are spot on. Maybe for a few billion the government should take over the tracks and dispatching and leave the rest to the railways. Mind you even when CN was a crown corporation there was a lot of push back against spending taxpayer dollars on CN.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Did anybody notice that the Ontario Government announced that passenger rail service will be returning in Northeastern Ontario? Apparantly it will run from Toronto to Timmins (Porcupine to be exact). Nobody here believes that it will actually happen.

I will believe it when it happens. Even when it happens it probably won't be daily service.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

I will believe it when it happens. Even when it happens it probably won't be daily service.

Rumor on a FB group is that they are doing a test run between North Bay and Toronto on Monday at 6am leaving North Bay. They did the test between North Bay and Cochrane already.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Rumor on a FB group is that they are doing a test run between North Bay and Toronto on Monday at 6am leaving North Bay. They did the test between North Bay and Cochrane already.

Monday is not the best time to do a test as there may be less freight traffic due the situation out west. Apparently trains are staged; sitting on sidings or in yards all the way from Kamploops to Central Alberta. Having just driven from Kamloops to Calgary via Jasper there were many freights parked on sidings with snow on them that hadn't moved in a few days. Most of the delays to the Northlander will probably occur south of Washago which where the most of the freights run.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

Monday is not the best time to do a test as there may be less freight traffic due the situation out west. Apparently trains are staged; sitting on sidings or in yards all the way from Kamploops to Central Alberta. Having just driven from Kamloops to Calgary via Jasper there were many freights parked on sidings with snow on them that hadn't moved in a few days. Most of the delays to the Northlander will probably occur south of Washago which where the most of the freights run.

Huh?
The Northlander will run only a short portion of busy mainline track.

Is there a day that would be better?

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Huh?
The Northlander will run only a short portion of busy mainline track.

Is there a day that would be better?

Yes, any day where freight operations are back to a representative levels. The whole point of a test is to check how a plan under realistic circumstances...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

Monday is not the best time to do a test as there may be less freight traffic due the situation out west. Apparently trains are staged; sitting on sidings or in yards all the way from Kamploops to Central Alberta. Having just driven from Kamloops to Calgary via Jasper there were many freights parked on sidings with snow on them that hadn't moved in a few days.

I know I'm off topic here, but what are the railways doing with the blockages in the Fraser Valley? Just waiting for the main line to reopen or are they rerouting trains through Prince George and down the former BC Rail line? Or through the USA?

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by someone123

Definitely not overnight. If you go back in time in streetview you will see this area had already begun to take shape 10 years ago. I've passed by there for a couple decades and it seems like this concept dates from maybe the mid-late 2000's. So if it's another 10 years off that's maybe 25 years to wait to be able to walk to the train.

I think Coquitlam Centre is miles better than this part of Markham although I didn't have such a comparison in mind (why not compare large greenfield developments in rapidly growing major metro areas to the best neighbourhoods? It might be 60% as good as Coquitlam Centre but Coquitlam is maybe 40% as good as a real city). You can walk from Lincoln SkyTrain to a few blocks of OK mixed use condo developments. Of course the Coquitlam mall itself still sucks and doesn't integrate properly with the train station. In a lot of countries (or New Westminster) the train would go right to the mall, not at the other end of a sea of parking. I am sure there is some plan to improve this but how old is the Evergreen extension as a concept? It is too bad because around here so many are priced out of downtown and so they must put up with this simulacrum.

I bet these areas all still have 20th century style servicing like loud large garbage trucks that drive around once a week.

I don't have that kind of optimism to compare suburban greenfield development to my ideal best neighbourhoods. It's one in which you have a school, a pool, a library,etc. within walking distance in any direction. We just don't build neighbourhoods at that scale anymore. Like we said, these blocks in Coquitlam Centre are miles ahead and, IMO, aren't that much different than what has been built in Markham Centre.

Full build out is at least another 25 years. It could be cut down significantly if the one developer would parcel out to other developers. Planning hasn't taken any consideration for people walking to the train. The sidewalk is pathetic and the indirect route adds another kilometre. The station has been rebuilt for two tracks and a new centre platform. As far as I know, there was no consideration to extend the tunnel between the two platforms to the west side creating a new entrance for Downtown Markham. I can definitely walk the route. Surely, people do walk it.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

Yes, any day where freight operations are back to a representative levels. The whole point of a test is to check how a plan under realistic circumstances...

Thank you, I was going to mention the same thing.

[swimmer_spe]

https://www.facebook.com/RobinPascoe...31224835953118

Monday at 05:55, the test train will depart North Bay to Toronto and return the same day.

[Djeffery]

Toronto Star story this weekend saying the recently launched London-Toronto GO train is running around 30 passengers a day. Story is paywalled so I can only see the first 2 paragraphs, no idea what else it says.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/202...l-ttc-bus.html

[ssiguy]

^ We have been talking about GO London quite a bit at urbantoronto.

Small wonder no one is on this train.......no one would be stupid enough to use it.

Why use an uncomfortable commuter train for 4 hours when you can take a comfortable VIA one that will get you to your destination in almost half the time? Also, the Torontonian who wrote down this proposal on the back of a napkin {no Londoner would stupid enough} obviously doesn't realize that London is a tad smaller than Toronto. In other words London doesn't have near the transit as Toronto and this stupid service {and I use that term in the loosest possible way} leaves London BEFORE London Transit starts it's day. In other words, you have to take an expensive taxi to get to downtown train station making it, for most, more expensive than taking VIA.

The demand is there. London is the 4th busiest VIA station in the country and since Greyhound stopped running, 2 new bus services have taken it's place including MegaBus.

This GO service is a joke and to Londoners, it's not a very funny one.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Toronto Star story this weekend saying the recently launched London-Toronto GO train is running around 30 passengers a day. Story is paywalled so I can only see the first 2 paragraphs, no idea what else it says.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/202...l-ttc-bus.html

It basically just says there's been criticism of the service which, as presented, simply isn't attractive to people. They mentioned that it costs $30 for GO compared to $37 for VIA which is significantly faster and that Metrolinx needs to look for ways to improve it such as by increasing speed and service frequency. Yet despite the low initial ridership, Metrolinx feels that improved transit services are important for the area which is undeserved, especially given recent cuts and points out that it's early in a 2 year pilot so they aren't drawing any conclusions yet since it often takes time for new transit services to attract ridership.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Toronto Star story this weekend saying the recently launched London-Toronto GO train is running around 30 passengers a day. Story is paywalled so I can only see the first 2 paragraphs, no idea what else it says.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/202...l-ttc-bus.html

Is that a success or a failure? Depends on how you look at it. 30 people wouldn't even fill a highway coach. The fact that the schedule does not match those working 9-5 jobs and yet they can get 30 people a day speaks loudly. If I were in the Metrolinks office and looking at this, I would adjust the schedule to work better for real commuting and then just watch the numbers climb.