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  #301  
Old Posted May 22, 2020, 9:36 PM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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Originally Posted by allovertown View Post
People hate on toll because they're in the Philadelphia suburbs and yet what have they actually built in Philadelphia? They'll build nice skyscrapers in other cities and then their big foray into the Philadelphia Market involved a highly controversial project that knocked down historic buildings and their original design was so dog shit terrible, it might as well have been a giant middle finger to this city.

The fact that they're a fortune 500 company, is just more bad news. Because you're definitely right, they could sit on this for as long as they want and not really feel any pain. Unfortunately I don't think there's a chance in hell they sell it for a loss. If they don't want to start building, why wouldn't they hang on to it for years and wait until it makes more sense to build? All the hard work of securing demolitions and getting approval for the project is over. This will be a profitable development location at some point again in the future, and they have the resources to wait until however long that is.

And I know people hate to hear it, but after the buildings were demolished, they did shit for months before the pandemic became an issue. Clear as day that their rush to demolish the buildings was all about the fear that a future decision could prevent their demolition, and nothing to do with a rush to actually start construction. If they were already dragging their feet in a good economy, hard to imagine they're very motivated in the midst of a global pandemic.
Exactly. All of this.
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  #302  
Old Posted May 23, 2020, 10:46 PM
Larry King Larry King is offline
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I'd like to see them build it as well but they did sell their development site on 8th near lombard a couple years ago, they bail on development sites sometimes.
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  #303  
Old Posted May 28, 2020, 4:17 PM
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I listened to Toll's earnings call today. It doesn't sound like they're going to start this project. I will post the relevant components from the earnings call once the transcript comes out, but I believe the phrasing was "We have some land inventory for projects that we have chosen not to start in this environment", and they later mentioned Philadelphia and Seattle as markets where they have land they are sitting on.

Last edited by DudeGuy; May 28, 2020 at 5:08 PM.
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  #304  
Old Posted May 28, 2020, 5:15 PM
allovertown allovertown is offline
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Originally Posted by DudeGuy View Post
I listened to Toll's earnings call today. It doesn't sound like they're going to start this project. I will post the relevant components from the earnings call once the transcript comes out, but I believe the phrasing was "We have some land inventory for projects that we have chosen not to start in this environment", and they later mentioned Philadelphia and Seattle as markets where they have land they are sitting on.
Wow. I'm shocked. Totally shocked.

Thanks for the update though.
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  #305  
Old Posted May 28, 2020, 6:08 PM
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Ugh. I'm all for daily penalties for fallow ground, cleared in anticipation of construction that is severely delayed or never starts.
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  #306  
Old Posted May 28, 2020, 6:15 PM
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Ugh. I'm all for daily penalties for fallow ground, cleared in anticipation of construction that is severely delayed or never starts.
I second that.
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  #307  
Old Posted May 29, 2020, 2:56 AM
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Originally Posted by DudeGuy View Post
I listened to Toll's earnings call today. It doesn't sound like they're going to start this project. I will post the relevant components from the earnings call once the transcript comes out, but I believe the phrasing was "We have some land inventory for projects that we have chosen not to start in this environment", and they later mentioned Philadelphia and Seattle as markets where they have land they are sitting on.
Here's that transcript of the Toll Bros Q2 earnings call, including Q7A: https://seekingalpha.com/article/435...pt?part=single

The segment of the Q&A where Philadelphia is mentioned:
Operator

Next question comes from Jade Rahmani of KBW. Please go ahead.

Ryan Tomasello

This is Ryan Tomasello for Jade. Jut regarding apartments and City Living. You gave some color in your prepared remarks on the former. But can you speak a bit more about how you’re thinking about the outlook for those businesses post the dust settling? Can you remind us how much equity you currently have allocated in each of those segments? And you mentioned you’ll be closing a few apartment JVs in the second half of the year. I was wondering how much capital that relates to and what the intention is to do with those proceeds, if you expect to reinvest those back into the apartment business.

Marty Connor

Sure. I think with respect to the apartment business, we have around $700 million invested in that business, and we hope to recoup $400 million through the balance of the next 12 months or so through JV formations. With respect to City Living, we’re actually at a good time in terms of where we have investments. We have around $170 million net invested in existing inventory, active communities. We have another $30 million in our couple off balance sheet joint ventures, and then we have some land inventory for projects that we have chosen not to start in this environment.

Ryan Tomasello

And just in terms of outlook, particularly in City Living, post this environment becoming a bit more certain if you expect City Living demand to be -- continue to be a driver for the business?

Douglas Yearley

Yes. I think, short term, we’re going to be very cautious. Right now, we only have five buildings in City Living, three are completed and the other two are nearing completion. But, we do have some land for future buildings that where we have not started any construction. And right now we are just sitting on the land. It’s not just in New York. We have some land in Seattle and Philadelphia as two examples. So, as Marty said, I think we’re at a good time in terms of our City Living business, which had been shrinking significantly. And in those five buildings that I mentioned, which are in -- two are in New Jersey, Hoboken, Jersey City and the other three are in Manhattan. They’re all positioned sort of mid-market. We talked about kind of $2,000 a foot, $1,800 a foot in New Jersey. They’re down at a $1,000 a foot. And so, they had been performing fairly well for us through what we all know, has been a difficult a few years in New York.

And short term, I think we’re very realistic that it will take some time to see where New York City falls out on this. And then, longer term, I’m comforted by what I just described, which was limited inventory in these five buildings that are all kind of mid market. But longer term, we will be very cautious with our expansion, of City Living in and around New York City until we have more clarity on where the long-term market stands. Today, only about 3% of our business is in Toll Brothers City Living.
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Last edited by Jayfar; May 29, 2020 at 8:46 AM.
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  #308  
Old Posted May 29, 2020, 8:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Jayfar View Post
Here's that transcript of the Toll Bros Q2 earnings call, including Q7A: https://seekingalpha.com/article/435...pt?part=single

The segment of the Q&A where Philadelphia is mentioned:
Operator

Next question comes from Jade Rahmani of KBW. Please go ahead.

Ryan Tomasello

This is Ryan Tomasello for Jade. Jut regarding apartments and City Living. You gave some color in your prepared remarks on the former. But can you speak a bit more about how you’re thinking about the outlook for those businesses post the dust settling? Can you remind us how much equity you currently have allocated in each of those segments? And you mentioned you’ll be closing a few apartment JVs in the second half of the year. I was wondering how much capital that relates to and what the intention is to do with those proceeds, if you expect to reinvest those back into the apartment business.

Marty Connor

Sure. I think with respect to the apartment business, we have around $700 million invested in that business, and we hope to recoup $400 million through the balance of the next 12 months or so through JV formations. With respect to City Living, we’re actually at a good time in terms of where we have investments. We have around $170 million net invested in existing inventory, active communities. We have another $30 million in our couple off balance sheet joint ventures, and then we have some land inventory for projects that we have chosen not to start in this environment.

Ryan Tomasello

And just in terms of outlook, particularly in City Living, post this environment becoming a bit more certain if you expect City Living demand to be -- continue to be a driver for the business?

Douglas Yearley

Yes. I think, short term, we’re going to be very cautious. Right now, we only have five buildings in City Living, three are completed and the other two are nearing completion. But, we do have some land for future buildings that where we have not started any construction. And right now we are just sitting on the land. It’s not just in New York. We have some land in Seattle and Philadelphia as two examples. So, as Marty said, I think we’re at a good time in terms of our City Living business, which had been shrinking significantly. And in those five buildings that I mentioned, which are in -- two are in New Jersey, Hoboken, Jersey City and the other three are in Manhattan. They’re all positioned sort of mid-market. We talked about kind of $2,000 a foot, $1,800 a foot in New Jersey. They’re down at a $1,000 a foot. And so, they had been performing fairly well for us through what we all know, has been a difficult a few years in New York.

And short term, I think we’re very realistic that it will take some time to see where New York City falls out on this. And then, longer term, I’m comforted by what I just described, which was limited inventory in these five buildings that are all kind of mid market. But longer term, we will be very cautious with our expansion, of City Living in and around New York City until we have more clarity on where the long-term market stands. Today, only about 3% of our business is in Toll Brothers City Living.
Now keep in mind, Toll has/had 2 big projects in the works in Center City. Besides the Jewelers Row condo tower, they also have the proposed apartment development at Broad & Noble by the Rail Park. But those projects are under two different Toll Divisions — Sansom St is Toll City Living and Noble St is Toll Apartment Living. From the context of the text I bolded in the above transcript excerpt I tend to think that it is the Sansom St (City Living) project that they are pausing.
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  #309  
Old Posted May 29, 2020, 11:28 AM
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In the context of the overall earnings call, it kind of sounded like they were planning on winding down their urban format/multi-family business.
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  #310  
Old Posted May 29, 2020, 1:13 PM
reparcsyks reparcsyks is offline
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Another void we’re stuck with for years. Thanks, Toll. I’d like to dig a giant hole in the front yard of their CEO‘s McMansion and walk away from it for years.
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  #311  
Old Posted May 29, 2020, 6:52 PM
UrbanRevival UrbanRevival is offline
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Originally Posted by reparcsyks View Post
Another void we’re stuck with for years. Thanks, Toll. I’d like to dig a giant hole in the front yard of their CEO‘s McMansion and walk away from it for years.
I think you're onto something there. Let's organize a mass shoveling.

In all seriousness, if this doesn't turn out to be the turning point for giving historic preservation in Philly much more power and authority, I don't know what will.
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  #312  
Old Posted May 31, 2020, 8:52 AM
City Wide City Wide is offline
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Originally Posted by UrbanRevival View Post
I think you're onto something there. Let's organize a mass shoveling.

In all seriousness, if this doesn't turn out to be the turning point for giving historic preservation in Philly much more power and authority, I don't know what will.

This might be splitting hairs, but the HC in Phila has consistently said that it doesn't have enough resources to oversee the present rules and regs. They have gotten more staff in the last couple years but who knows how long that will last.

In addition to being well funded I'd like at least one if not two new categories of preservation to be codified, so that not every situation has to be treated the same. The present status is one size fits all. Jewelers Row would have been a hard case to make using the present definitions, as it was such a mix of ages and styles and preservation levels. But far and away the general thinking has been that what Toll was planning to do was not good for the streetscape. That's an example where very strict following of the existing rules got in the way keeping the feel of that block.

I live in UC in a part where large Victorian twins are the norm. One house that long ago had been turned into 3 apartments, got trashed a year ago, much smaller windows that are casement style were installed top to bottom, the front porch---often the key to these twins----was modernized, and the exterior was stuccoed. No one except the owner likes the what happened, but likewise most people unfortunately don't care enough to restore very well. I've heard for years people saying that they just wanted to make things alittle simpler and no one would notice the small changes, but over 40 years they add up. Again it would be nice if there were other standards that were available but not be as costly as true preservation and restoration, which foolishly I still believe in.
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  #313  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 12:57 AM
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Jewelers Row condo-tower developer Toll Bros. pauses work amid coronavirus uncertainty

“As is true for most development in this region, Toll Bros.’ Sansom Street project has been impacted by COVID-19," Toll City Living spokesperson Timothy Spreitzer said in a statement. "We are still proceeding through the permitting process, and we look forward to bringing a beautiful project to Jewelers Row.”
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  #314  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 12:31 PM
Milksteak Milksteak is offline
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Originally Posted by Jayfar View Post
Jewelers Row condo-tower developer Toll Bros. pauses work amid coronavirus uncertainty

“As is true for most development in this region, Toll Bros.’ Sansom Street project has been impacted by COVID-19," Toll City Living spokesperson Timothy Spreitzer said in a statement. "We are still proceeding through the permitting process, and we look forward to bringing a beautiful project to Jewelers Row.”
How many times have we seen statements like this from developers only to have a big hole in the ground for years to come? This should really piss people off, part of our history was torn down only to have Toll start flaking out when the going gets tough.
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