Lamenting the decline of the car

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Not in my pocket money range, but I think the Etron GT is way sexier than the Taycan Cross Turismo from any angle but the front.

That said, I like what Porsche is doing with their interiors more.

I'm the opposite. Give me real buttons any day.

[stevanford1]

Originally Posted by theman23

I'm the opposite. Give me real buttons any day.

Yes! I have seen some of the new Ferrari's have giant screens to do things as simple as changing the climate controls. It just seems like another thing that will break to me.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Jaws

They start at $120k, and with Porsche there's no way you can get away without adding at least 10% to the base price in options - and that’s being frugal. It is a nice car but value and Porsche are mutually exclusive. Love my 911 that I bought used, but their new car pricing is just stupid. And the dealers’ service rates add to the obscenity. Do basic wrenching myself and use an indy for the next level stuff.

It’s ridiculous that Porsche charges so much for “options” that come standard on any KIA Forte.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by theman23

I'm the opposite. Give me real buttons any day.

I'm a fan of real buttons too. But it requires a certain finesse to combine virtual buttons for some functions with real buttons on others.

The ETron interior just seems way too cluttered for my taste. They could have been a bit more minimalist while keeping lots of physical controls.

[WarrenC12]

My Tesla has very few physical buttons and I don't miss them at all.

The steering wheel has 2 push button scroll wheels that have different functions at different times. The only thing I might like is some more fine control over wiper speeds with a physical button. This could be programmed into the scroll wheels bot nothing yet. A very Vancouver problem.

[Truenorth00]

I've done enough human factors stuff on the air side to know that Tesla's take is less than optimal.

Yeah. People can get used to it. But that doesn't make it good design. There's a happy medium between Tesla and the buttons galore 90s interiors.

Personally, what I want to see is the same approach as aviation. Eliminate the dash and go with a HUD, so the driver never has their head down. Driving controls and climate controls (including windows here) need to be physical to be accessible blind. Infotainment can all be virtual controls, with voice commands for heads up functionality.

[theman23]

I think the push to eliminate buttons has more to do with simplifying production lines and cutting costs. It also helps that touch screens look cool when a car is parked in a showroom. Outside of Tesla fanboys, I dont know of anyone that thinks having a touch screen to control every thing is a good idea.

I used to like Porsche's approach too, but they're incrementally moving more and more controls over to the touchscreen. My biggest pet peeve is now having to go into the infotainment system to turn off the auto start-stop or the recirculate air functions. These were easy to reach buttons in my 991.

[Truenorth00]

I'm always surprised by the fact that the auto sector doesn't have established guidelines or flat out regulation on human factors considerations when it comes to secondary controls. Anything that had a driver's head down adds to risk. I would think regulators and insurers would work hard to push carmakers away from that.

[megadude]

I hate the touchscreen! Only had it a couple months ago for the first time when I got a '21 Escape as a rental. It protrudes upward past the dash is a distraction for me. And ya, I prefer buttons over a screen. I don't like having an ipad 11 as my control panel. Just doesn't look natural to me, especially in a regular car like an Escape.

[rousseau]

Touchscreens have to be more dangerous, you would think. You literally have to take your eyes off the road for every little thing, like volume control.

Or are there buttons for volume control on the steering wheel of the Tesla?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Touchscreens have to be more dangerous, you would think. You literally have to take your eyes off the road for every little thing, like volume control.

Or are there buttons for volume control on the steering wheel of the Tesla?

Tesla has buttons for volume control/pause, also obviously the stick for turn signals, high beams, immediate wiper activation.

Climate control is probably the one people complain about the most. But you can also alter that via voice commands, if you're into that kind of thing.

[theman23]

Isn't that only if you want to do a single wipe? Last time I drove a Tesla, you had to go through the touch screen if you wanted the wipers to continuously run. Really bad design.

[Truenorth00]

I admire Tesla marketing. They cheaped out physical hardware to improve cost and standardization and somehow convinced everyone is the way of the future.

The good thing to come out of this is carmakers finally understanding the importance of software and UI/UX design.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by theman23

Isn't that only if you want to do a single wipe? Last time I drove a Tesla, you had to go through the touch screen if you wanted the wipers to continuously run. Really bad design.

Yep. Mostly I just leave it on "auto" though, it's not perfect but good for 90% of the situations. Probably the #1 complaint out there for what should go back to a physical interface.

It could be added to the system and controlled via steering wheel buttons if they wanted. I guess they don't care or don't get too many complaints about it.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I admire Tesla marketing. They cheaped out physical hardware to improve cost and standardization and somehow convinced everyone is the way of the future.

The good thing to come out of this is carmakers finally understanding the importance of software and UI/UX design.

UI/UX is important, but I do recall diehard Blackberry supporters saying something about physical keys too.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

UI/UX is important, but I do recall diehard Blackberry supporters saying something about physical keys too.

Blackberrys are still way better for texting and driving

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

UI/UX is important, but I do recall diehard Blackberry supporters saying something about physical keys too.

Cause a car and a mobile phone have the same human factors concerns?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Cause a car and a mobile phone have the same human factors concerns?

It's about change being hard to accept.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

It's about change being hard to accept.

Hardly. Having dealt with cockpits, these issues are a bit more obvious to me. The aerospace world takes human factors seriously and actually does analysis on what should and shouldn't be behind a touchscreen. And also what should be an expected learning curve.

Applying those standards to the automotive world would show how bad design is in the automotive world. And Tesla is bad. Just in a different direction.

Luckily for the OEMs, there's not much in the way of standards in the automotive world and sensors can make up for distracted driving to cover up bad controls design. So what is an actual human factors engineering problem has been reduced to user preference with fanboys or haters simply dismissing criticism on either side.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Hardly. Having dealt with cockpits, these issues are a bit more obvious to me. The aerospace world takes human factors seriously and actually does analysis on what should and shouldn't be behind a touchscreen. And also what should be an expected learning curve.

Applying those standards to the automotive world would show how bad design is in the automotive world. And Tesla is bad. Just in a different direction.

Luckily for the OEMs, there's not much in the way of standards in the automotive world and sensors can make up for distracted driving to cover up bad controls design. So what is an actual human factors engineering problem has been reduced to user preference with fanboys or haters simply dismissing criticism on either side.

Have you seen the Rivian interior? Looks the same as Tesla.