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  #21  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2020, 7:53 PM
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Interestingly (or not), Chicago does not use neighborhood mailing addresses.

Every address within city limits ends with "Chicago, IL 606 _ _"
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  #22  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2020, 7:59 PM
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chicago already sort of has that with its designated "community areas", though they don't hold much actual political power.
The City of Los Angeles has something similar, I guess. Back in 2002, Hollywood and the San Fernando Valley both had secession movements to form their own respective cities, complaining that the City of LA was too big and their areas were not getting the attention that they needed. Their proposals made it to the election ballot, but ultimately voters rejected both secessions. But, LA City government got the hint, and as a consolation, formed neighborhood councils, which don't really have any real political power, but act as advisory boards who advocate for their respective communities.

Here's a list of them, and there are a lot of them:
https://empowerla.org/councils/

And here's a map of the neighborhood councils; note the gray areas, which are separate cities and three unincorporated County areas (Universal City, the VA Hospital campus on the Westside, and Marina del Rey):
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  #23  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2020, 8:15 PM
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
It’s because the borough is so big, with so many portions, identities, and zip codes. You see it similarly in Brooklyn... Flatbush NY, Greenpoint NY, Canarsie NY

And the Bronx too... Mott Haven NY, Hunts Point NY

Not suggesting that a weak cohesive borough identity isn’t present in Queens, just that you see the neighborhood mailing addresses elsewhere too
I know this is getting nit-picky, but if you lookup zip codes for Brooklyn or the Bronx though the recommended city name is "Brooklyn NY" or "Bronx NY."

Whereas for Queens it's Whitestone, Astoria, Jamaica, Flushing etc.

https://tools.usps.com/zip-code-look...?citybyzipcode

But I would agree Brooklyn has the strongest identity though given that is used to be an independent city, has a downtown, sports teams etc.

The Bronx in contrast really developed as an extension of Manhattan.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2020, 8:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Interestingly (or not), Chicago does not use neighborhood mailing addresses.

Every address within city limits ends with "Chicago, IL 606 _ _"
I find it interesting actually, being that the city of Chicago covers a large area, and I assume it grew by annexing other communities? If that's the case, I would think the USPS would have given those annexed communities their own post office/ZIP code designations.

Los Angeles has neighborhood mailing address/ZIP codes, mainly in the San Fernando Valley (e.g., Van Nuys, CA; Woodland Hills, CA etc.), but it does have some outside the SF Valley as well (Pacific Palisades, CA; Venice, CA; Wilmington, CA; San Pedro, CA).
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  #25  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2020, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
It’s because the borough is so big, with so many portions, identities, and zip codes. You see it similarly in Brooklyn... Flatbush NY, Greenpoint NY, Canarsie NY

And the Bronx too... Mott Haven NY, Hunts Point NY

Not suggesting that a weak cohesive borough identity isn’t present in Queens, just that you see the neighborhood mailing addresses elsewhere too
I think the habit of addressing places in Queens by the local post offices, instead of as "Queens", is because Queens itself was never a city, but a lot of the neighborhoods in Queens were incorporated cities before the amalgamation. Brooklyn was a city pre-amalgamation.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2020, 8:38 PM
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In Toronto, Weston, Downsview, Willowdale and Don Mills (as well as Etobicoke and Scarborough) are still used, though less so than in the past. A lot of people just write Toronto and it gets there with the postal code (ZIP code).

The former boroughs of Etobicoke and Scarborough have more "firm" boundaries than "the Yorks" (York, East York, North York) and hence stronger identities.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2020, 8:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
I know this is getting nit-picky, but if you lookup zip codes for Brooklyn or the Bronx though the recommended city name is "Brooklyn NY" or "Bronx NY."

Whereas for Queens it's Whitestone, Astoria, Jamaica, Flushing etc.

https://tools.usps.com/zip-code-look...?citybyzipcode

But I would agree Brooklyn has the strongest identity though given that is used to be an independent city, has a downtown, sports teams etc.

The Bronx in contrast really developed as an extension of Manhattan.
That’s interesting about the Queens addresses. And now that I think about it, when I lived in Whitestone, mail was usually addressed to me in “Whitestone, NY”
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  #28  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2020, 8:45 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I think the habit of addressing places in Queens by the local post offices, instead of as "Queens", is because Queens itself was never a city, but a lot of the neighborhoods in Queens were incorporated cities before the amalgamation. Brooklyn was a city pre-amalgamation.
Yeah, that’s another good point
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  #29  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2020, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
I find it interesting actually, being that the city of Chicago covers a large area, and I assume it grew by annexing other communities? If that's the case, I would think the USPS would have given those annexed communities their own post office/ZIP code designations.

Los Angeles has neighborhood mailing address/ZIP codes, mainly in the San Fernando Valley (e.g., Van Nuys, CA; Woodland Hills, CA etc.), but it does have some outside the SF Valley as well (Pacific Palisades, CA; Venice, CA; Wilmington, CA; San Pedro, CA).
Even more confusing is when you have the mailing address of a neighboring city, like this area above Beverly Hills which is in the city of Los Angeles but has a Beverly Hills mailing address: https://goo.gl/maps/uRVwY6vgnfzo9kUd9
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  #30  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2020, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
I find it interesting actually, being that the city of Chicago covers a large area, and I assume it grew by annexing other communities? If that's the case, I would think the USPS would have given those annexed communities their own post office/ZIP code designations.
Chicago did grow by annexing neighboring municipalities that I'm sure had their own post offices back in the day, but the vast majority of Chicago's land annexing was done back in the late 19th/early 20th centuries.

Perhaps back then the USPS was more flexible on changing mailing addresses and zip codes when growing cities gobbled up adjoining towns.

Maybe Chicago made it a condition of annexation that the towns it swallowed up had to give up their independent mailing address name and adopt a "606" zip code (I don't know how things work in other large cities, but ALL zip codes within the city of Chicago start with "606").
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2020, 1:50 AM
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In NY, it really varies. You can use neighborhood name anywhere in the city, and your mail will arrive (obviously zip has to be correct). It's not uncommon to use, say, Bay Ridge (in Brooklyn) or Chelsea (in Manhattan).

But Queens is the only borough where the neighborhood is typically used (though Queens, NY is still frequently used). And Manhattan is the only borough where NY, NY is typically used.

To me, it's confusing in metros where the center city name is used for a huge swath of suburban mailing addresses. I've noticed this in Baltimore, St. Louis and Cincy.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2020, 2:17 AM
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Originally Posted by badrunner View Post
Even more confusing is when you have the mailing address of a neighboring city, like this area above Beverly Hills which is in the city of Los Angeles but has a Beverly Hills mailing address: https://goo.gl/maps/uRVwY6vgnfzo9kUd9
Oh yes; that area is referred to by real estate agents as the "Beverly Hills Post Office Area." Back when I used to read an actual newspaper, in the entertainment section of the LA Times, there would be articles about fill-in-the-blank celebrity "just bought a house in the Beverly Hills Post Office Area, blah blah."
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  #33  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2020, 2:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post

To me, it's confusing in metros where the center city name is used for a huge swath of suburban mailing addresses. I've noticed this in Baltimore, St. Louis and Cincy.
I was wondering about this... if there were other places that use the city name, even if the address is 20+ miles from city limits. Pittsburgh does this too.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2020, 3:23 AM
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It would be great, we really need it. I believe a councilman proposed it 20 years ago but was shut down. Right now, the LA city council and it's 15 members have more power than the mayor and each district acts like the others don't matter.

I would break it down as follows (very rough idea since we have so many other municipalities and odd shaped borders). These are for LA city and keep areas and districts together that share values and mindsets for the most part..

1) Valley
2) West Los Angeles bordered by 101 at the north, lax to West, Beverly hills to the east, Inglewood to the south east
3) Mid city south - below 10 freeway on the north, 105 freeway on the south, west LA to the west, 110 freeway to the east
4) Mid city north - south boundary above 10 freeway including Hollywood to Hollywood hills to the rest and north
5) San Pedro, Wilmington, Torrance, Venice, marina del Rey and beach areas
6) Greater Downtown LA including Chinatown and area up to the LA River, down south to USC and expo Park to the south and east until MacArthur Park to the west (mid city boundary)
7) East Los Angeles / Boyle heights / South LA east of 110 freeway
I feel like this is too many.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2020, 12:27 PM
ChiMIchael ChiMIchael is online now
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Interestingly (or not), Chicago does not use neighborhood mailing addresses.

Every address within city limits ends with "Chicago, IL 606 _ _"
Not quite, I know Altgeld Gardens uses 60827, and Galewood, Montclare use 60707.

Also Stickey (and I think Bedford Park) uses 60638 and Burham uses 60633
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  #36  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2020, 4:59 PM
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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
I was wondering about this... if there were other places that use the city name, even if the address is 20+ miles from city limits. Pittsburgh does this too.
Its very common in Cleveland too. The entire suburban east side of Cuyahoga County basically has Cleveland as the mailing address. Its strange because from what I understand (always have been an eastsider) it's not the same for the west side. Of course, you can put in the respective suburb name as the city and there wont be any issues, but the default address typically will come up as Cleveland.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2020, 6:11 PM
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Colloquially, Chicago is basically already organized into the boroughs that Steely mentioned. I think the boundaries of the "greater downtown" area would be quite obvious: North Ave and Kennedy/Stevenson Expressways. Built environment, points of interest, and neighborhood geographic definitions (at least according to Google Maps) all support that delineation. It's very nice when things fit neatly into boxes like that, whether intentional or by accident.

For LA, boroughs would work only at the county level since there's less distinction between city and suburb here:

Central LA (including Glendale, West Hollywood, Inglewood)
Westside
San Fernando Valley (including Burbank and Santa Clarita)
San Gabriel Valley
Gateway Cities (southeast)
South Bay (south of 105, west of 710)
Antelope Valley

Central LA would have the highest concentration of poverty by far; everything else would be at least decently middle class. South Bay would be the most racially balanced.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2020, 7:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
Chicago did grow by annexing neighboring municipalities that I'm sure had their own post offices back in the day, but the vast majority of Chicago's land annexing was done back in the late 19th/early 20th centuries.

Perhaps back then the USPS was more flexible on changing mailing addresses and zip codes when growing cities gobbled up adjoining towns.

Maybe Chicago made it a condition of annexation that the towns it swallowed up had to give up their independent mailing address name and adopt a "606" zip code (I don't know how things work in other large cities, but ALL zip codes within the city of Chicago start with "606").
Likely the only reason New York didn't bother normalizing all of addresses of the amalgamated city is that many street names and addresses are duplicated from borough to borough. Brooklyn, Queens, and Staten Island each have their own distinct Broadway, for instance (Broadway in the Bronx is the same street as the one in Manhattan). There are many street addresses through NYC that is also the street address for a building in another borough. It would be very trick
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  #39  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2020, 7:29 PM
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When Haussmann created the new arrondissements for Paris with the annexion of surrounding municipalities in 1860, the idea was to have boroughts with similar population but not to enlight local identity.

Quite the opposite, places with a too strong identity (especially a left wing one) were either divided into several arrondissments or "drowned" with many other neighborhoods.
The Town hall of the arrondissment was put centrally in a neutral space.

See how the turbulent muncipality of Belleville was separated in two different arrondissement and put with other localities..
https://observatoiregrandparis.files...riquenov08.jpg

As the result what is now known as Belleville today is at the limit of 10th, 11th, 19th and 20th arrondissements.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2020, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
I think the boundaries of the "greater downtown" area would be quite obvious: North Ave and Kennedy/Stevenson Expressways. Built environment, points of interest, and neighborhood geographic definitions (at least according to Google Maps) all support that delineation. It's very nice when things fit neatly into boxes like that, whether intentional or by accident.
With the explosion of mid and highrise development in the west loop west of the Kennedy trench, I think most city observers would now include the west loop out to ashland in the Central Area/Greater Downtown.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Jul 18, 2020 at 11:39 PM.
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