Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright
You just love distracting from the topic at hand. We are not talking about what sites "could be" crated, we are talking about which existing surface lots remain versus how many there used to be. Stop trying to expand the conversation to include all of God's creation. So please, explain to me why developers who have largely been chewing through parcels of vacant land in the near West Loop are going to suddenly shift strategy and start looking for teardowns in the Loop Proper?
My point is very simple, there is not a lot of nuance to it: in 2008 there were about 20 large surface lots in the section of town I posted. Now there are only about 10. What makes you think that suddenly everything is going to change and that trend will cease? You can leave your "you are carried away" attitude at the door and respond with facts. I am not speculating, I am observing what has, in objective fact, happened. I can drive down there and see each and every one of the developments that have replaced lots with my own eyes.
Finally, when did I ever say a proposal is guaranteed to happen? Again you are just making shit up to attempt discredit a simple observation: those parcels have serious active proposals. That is a fact and you can't deny it. Second you yourself just said in another thread that proposals (or at least the parcels they are planned for) are likely to get developed when backed by serious serial developers like Related or Fifield. That was the only reason I even mentioned proposals.
So again, oh great wise sage, explain to me the future tectonic shift that will occur making tear downs in the loop attractive when companies like McDonalds are choosing to locate all the way over on Morgan Street. You were the one who made the first statement that McDonald's is just chasing trends by locating there, so please share your great wisdom as to why walking 8 blocks West from Union station is any different than walking 8 blocks East. Because so far all you've done is repeat your claims without even an argument, let alone hard stats or facts, supporting it. You made the statement that the CBD shouldn't or wouldn't ever push into the West Loop, so the burden of proof is on you to explain why it's not going to happen because it's already happening.
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All my main point ever was is that corporate hq/large regional office office locations are not appropriate west of the expressway. Fulton Market District makes little sense as a large scale office job center. Makes perfect sense for residential, and a combination of residential, hotel, some retail - but mostly of the dining variety, and perhaps food/entertainment. As a commuter destination for jobs, it just doesn't add up. I've explained very clearly that this is distance - but not only distance. A walk of similar distance 'feels' much longer and less pedestrian-friendly/welcoming etc, when that walk is west of the expressway than when you're walking east. Eight blocks east is still a trek, but it feels like a trek of around 8 blocks. 8 blocks west is a trek that probably feels more like 12 or 13, and is less pleasant/urban/cohesive to boot......
You are the one insinuating something that just isn't so - that easy/relatively easy development opportunities east of the expressway (again, I definitely wouldn't even hold this is true east of the river!) are somehow in danger of disappearing by next cycle. It will certainly take at least a couple more than that - there will be plenty of good (re)development opportunities in the Loop and Near West Loop for the few next cycles, and that also happens to continue to be where it makes the most sense to overwhelmingly concentrate new large scale office construction over the next couple decades. More boutique and professional office type stuff is of course fine in certain pockets expanding outward. But for large corporate offices (yes, even including tech) - no dice. It doesn't add up, from both the employer's perspective (wanting to maximize your talent pool, ease of broadest swath of metro area human resources to get to your door), and from the city's - the urban planning perspective (the city would be wise to recognize this and look to funnel new hq/large corp offices into the core/truly transit nexus area and away from these fringes)....
Further, nobody is suggesting that the West Loop isn't - and won't continue to do so - booming......obviously it is, I think that's great and want to see more....what I am saying, however, is that that growth should overwhelmingly consist of residential, with retail (food-focused, but some other more service-oriented) and entertainment thrown in for good mix. Large office just doesn't add up (and, yes, this includes Google's mistake on Fulton!)...
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