PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by arkitect13

^^ Actually i think those apartments are a great idea, id prefer they be closer to the library, which is near lifetime fitness, but the township has high hopes to redevelop the entire office park over time and they have some great trails and parks nearby. wish it was a bit easier to get to the station but I see more positives then negatives on them.

Yeah outside of the flooding and traffic during rush hour there isn't much downside really. Virginia Dr. is a ghost of its former self and needs some more life and a reinvention and there are a lot of amenities in the area. And if the "downtown" ever comes to fruition on Pennsylvania Ave. that will be an added bonus for the area also.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

I might catch hell for this, but oh well: I don't get the appeal of Newtown Square. It's just as expensive as the Main Line without, IMO, any of the benefits.

I would say for all intents and purposes it functions as more of a Main Line town than say Malvern and Paoli. It's a big township and feels very differently depending on where you are, but pre-Ellis Preserve, it was sorta divided up into quadrants roughly divided by 30 and 252. The quadrants NW of 252/30 (Pre-Ellis) was very bucolic. Same feel as Willistown next door. Radnor Hunt Country actually begins in Newtown Township here. SW of 252/30 is the reservoir. Basically the only place in Delaware County where you can have a waterfront home. NE of 252/30 is St Albans and Aronimink. St Albans is older and more traditional (you're seeing teardown activity here now because the homes are quite small but the lots pretty generous). When you get north of Goshen Road its very wooded and bucolic. Today it feels much more posh with all the demo and new construction that has surrounded Aronimink but as a reminder, many people think it's the best country club and golf course in the entire region. I don't care about that stuff, but other people do. When your in this part of Newtown Square, you're basically in Wayne. 5 minutes by car on back roads to all that charm. SE of 252/30 I would say is the most working class and normal part/non-Main Line feeling of the township. Feels more like Marple/Broomall than Newtown Square.

Tbh, the complaint about Rt 30 is a valid one but when I think of Newtown Square, it has more of a N-S orientation to me. I feel like most people who live there are driving north on 252 to get to route 30 or 202 and all that's up there or on back roads to get the the eastern part of the Mainline...Bryn Mawr, Wayne, etc. These are not people who are driving east on 30 to get to the Llanarch Diner in Upper Darby.

[PHLtoNYC]

Longwood Gardens to acquire, operate 505-acre du Pont estate

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...state-del.html

Longwood Gardens announced plans Thursday to purchase the 505-acre Delaware estate of a late member of the du Pont family.

The Kennett Square tourist destination and the Conservation Fund, an organization that protects land and waterways throughout the country, have entered into an agreement with Granogue Reserve LTD LLC to acquire the estate of Irénée du Pont, who died on Jan. 16. The more than 100-year-old estate is located off of Smithbridge Road about seven miles from Longwood Gardens.

Longwood Gardens will own and operate Granogue, though the full scope of its plans are not yet clear.

This isn't Longwood Gardens' only large undertaking of late. The tourist destination is currently undergoing a $250 million, 17-acre capital expansion project called "Longwood Reimagined." Development on the project began in 2021 and includes a new, 32,000-square-foot West Conservatory, a bonsai courtyard, a public restaurant and a private event space. The first phase, redevelopment of Longwood's Orchid House, was completed in February 2022.

Longwood set a visitation record in fiscal year 2022, welcoming 1.6 million guests. That marked a 5% increase from the 1.54 million visitors it saw in 2019, when it set its previous record.

Longwood Gardens spans 1,100 acres and features gardens, woodlands, meadows, fountains and a conservatory. It was founded in 1906 by Pierre S. du Pont, when he purchased the property to save a collection of historic trees from being sold for lumber.

[iheartphilly]

Newtown Square has a good vibe; not a bedroom community at the very least but not bustling yet like Rt 30 on the Mainline with all those businesses that line Rt 30. Somewhere in between and I think that's what makes it attractive. Definitely has grown over the past decade in the old Dupont Estate now known as Ellis preserve that link Rt. 252 and sections of Rt 3. Plenty of luxury new single family homes and town homes over the years that popped up as part of their development, including Episcopal Academy sprawling campus.

[Knight Hospitaller]

^ Ellis Preserve is the former Ellis property (who sold it to Arco Chemical). The former duPont property (Foxcatcher Farm, now the site of the Toll Brothers "Liseter" development and Episcopal Academy) is across Goshen Road.

Ellis: https://www.phillymag.com/property/2...ewtown-square/
Foxcatcher: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...velopment.html

[iheartphilly]

^
ok, I thought Dupont once owned that land that Arco Chemical sat on. But yes on Liseter. I once looked at buying a home there but decided not too. I know Liseter was Dupont land. That's where the weird stuff happened with the Olympic guy friend.

[mcgrath618]

I wouldn't want to live anywhere near Ellis Preserve or Newtown Square. It's urbanist hell; reminds me of the crap going up around Raleigh NC. Havertown, Springfield, Oakmont, etc. are all much nicer places to live with housing stock that doesn't look like it was built from cardboard.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

I wouldn't want to live anywhere near Ellis Preserve or Newtown Square. It's urbanist hell; reminds me of the crap going up around Raleigh NC. Havertown, Springfield, Oakmont, etc. are all much nicer places to live with housing stock that doesn't look like it was built from cardboard.

Sure. But the houses in Havertown and Springfield are legit small for the most part. Many of them 3 bedrooms 1 bath. And they're on tiny lots, like 0.12 acre with not a lot of opportunity to expand in any direction. If the houses were even 300-400 sf bigger they'd be among the most desirable suburbs in the region.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Sure. But the houses in Havertown and Springfield are legit small for the most part. Many of them 3 bedrooms 1 bath. And they're on tiny lots, like 0.12 acre with not a lot of opportunity to expand in any direction. If the houses were even 300-400 sf bigger they'd be among the most desirable suburbs in the region.

My childhood home in Havertown was built as a 3 BR 1 Bath, but was added to in the 1970s to become a 3BR 3 Bath. We put a 4th bath in the basement.

Look at the homes along Darby Road, north of Eagle.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

My childhood home in Havertown was built as a 3 BR 1 Bath, but was added to in the 1970s to become a 3BR 3 Bath. We put a 4th bath in the basement.

Look at the homes along Darby Road, north of Eagle.

I'm aware of the bigger homes in Haverford Township. North of Darby Road...Merion Golf Manor, Coopertown, etc. They're gorgeous. But most of the housing stock are square albeit charming 3br 1 bath homes. Ditto for Springfield. It has larger homes along Rolling Road (not sure what that neighborhood is called) but again its the exception.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I'm aware of the bigger homes in Haverford Township. North of Darby Road...Merion Golf Manor, Coopertown, etc. They're gorgeous. But most of the housing stock are square albeit charming 3br 1 bath homes. Ditto for Springfield. It has larger homes along Rolling Road (not sure what that neighborhood is called) but again its the exception.

Interesting, I grew up thinking that it was Havertown. Upon closer inspection, you’re right. It’s Haverford Township.

[iheartphilly]

Haverford and Havertown are both towns in Haverford Township. Boundaries for Haverford run along Ardmore Ave and north of it, generally.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

I wouldn't want to live anywhere near Ellis Preserve or Newtown Square. It's urbanist hell; reminds me of the crap going up around Raleigh NC. Havertown, Springfield, Oakmont, etc. are all much nicer places to live with housing stock that doesn't look like it was built from cardboard.

That is not nice nor entirely accurate. Much of Newtown Square is beautiful, bucolic, with a great variety of quality housing stock. Ellis Preserve is a nice but small mixed-use pocket, not my definition of "urbanist hell" (that would be Houston). I've toured some of the new builds in the town, definitely a higher caliber of construction than your average 400 home subdivision in Raleigh.

And Havertown is great, but housing options and space can be limited.

I'm a city person through and through, but I wouldn't go so far to make negative comments about a very nice suburb just because it's not my preference. We all get upset when people talk smack about Philadelphia after all...

My parents live just over the reservoir in Upper Providence (hell by your standards :p)

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Sure. But the houses in Havertown and Springfield are legit small for the most part. Many of them 3 bedrooms 1 bath. And they're on tiny lots, like 0.12 acre with not a lot of opportunity to expand in any direction. If the houses were even 300-400 sf bigger they'd be among the most desirable suburbs in the region.

We have one of the larger houses in Oakmont. It's still a bit small for us. I guess desirability is relative. Stuff hasn't been lasting more than a day or two on the market here.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

We have one of the larger houses in Oakmont. It's still a bit small for us. I guess desirability is relative. Stuff hasn't been lasting more than a day or two on the market here.

Interesting, this proves my comment about older homes being outdated & not being big enough to accommodate new standard families.

[iheartphilly]

^
hmm...I think knight disclosed his family has like 7 kids. Not typical in today's time to have that many. An exception not the norm.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

^
hmm...I think knight disclosed his family has like 7 kids. Not typical in today's time to have that many. An exception not the norm.

But it was more common back when these homes were built. They somehow managed. Our sense that we could use a better layout comes down more to modern preferences/lifestyle than true fitness for the purpose.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

But it was more common back when these homes were built. They somehow managed. Our sense that we could use a better layout comes down more to modern preferences/lifestyle than true fitness for the purpose.

I think most of the housing stock in your area were built from 1920s-40. Household size back then was 6. Household size now is 4. But yeah, unless you were super well to do, you made it work back then with a family size of 6. I imagine kids doubled up in bedrooms and kitchens were smaller. People used dining rooms and no such things as breakfast nooks or family rooms (like an addition to an older home).

Also, over the decades builders increase square footage on homes, as that was the trend, but there may be a reversal happening now in some part of the country. I remember reading an article about it.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Knight Hospitaller

We have one of the larger houses in Oakmont. It's still a bit small for us. I guess desirability is relative. Stuff hasn't been lasting more than a day or two on the market here.

I'm not saying its not desirable. I never said that.

I'm simply stating I understand why somebody would want to be in a 6,000 sf custom build colonial revival home with all the modern accoutrements overlooking Aronimink Golf Course or the Springton Reservoir or in a community like Licester that has a club house, pool, etc minutes from the Main Line.

There are buyers for all of them. And they're both wonderful places in their own right.

[Knight Hospitaller]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

I think most of the housing stock in your area were built from 1920s-40. Household size back then was 6. Household size now is 4. But yeah, unless you were super well to do, you made it work back then with a family size of 6. I imagine kids doubled up in bedrooms and kitchens were smaller. People used dining rooms and no such things as breakfast nooks or family rooms (like an addition to an older home).

Also, over the decades builders increase square footage on homes, as that was the trend, but there may be a reversal happening now in some part of the country. I remember reading an article about it.

A great recent take on that was “we have larger homes for smaller families, so that we have a place for all the stuff that we don’t need.”