Why no European supertalls - Page 2

coth · #21 Posted **Nov 29, 2006, 2:34 PM**

shiro, i quote the paper from the complex approval. unlike you.

Jonas · #22 Posted **Nov 29, 2006, 2:42 PM**

coth, just stop it... you make others giggle like that little puppy in your avatar while reading such arguments

GENIUS LOCI · #23 Posted **Nov 29, 2006, 5:11 PM**

In Milan they're thinkin' to build a supertall for Expo 2015 (obviously in the case we host it)
They said they want to project it by an international competition and that it could be seen from the whole Alps arc

On this rendering (just more than a sketch) the tower is about between 500 and 600 m tall
You can deduce it by the confrontation with the central axe, on the left, of the existing fair site (about 1300 m)

http://www.milanoexpo-2015.com/proposta_sito.php#

FREKI · #24 Posted **Nov 29, 2006, 10:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rav

Asia needs to proove it's economic importance. US urbanisme is centered around skyscrapers, Europe just doesn't need supertalls.

So true!

It would however be nice to have a few

Chrissib · #25 Posted **Dec 20, 2006, 11:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuyoPiyo

I am curious why Europe don't have any high rise like over 500 meters buildings? Alot of Eurpoean artichets proposed a tall towers to Asia, but why not Europe? Is there any height restricts there?

I think here isn't a very high demand of new housing in general, as the fertility rates are low and the population is starting to shrink. Also highrises need high ground prices and free areas in the near of the city. As in Europe the citys are full of old buildings you can't tear down, there is not much space. In outer areas, only little one-family-houses are built, and unfortunately no residential highrises, although I'd like to live in one.

Is it the Western culture to build only highrises for offices and not for residential things like in Asia?

coth · #26 Posted **Dec 21, 2006, 11:24 AM**

Highrise residentials is actually European legacy

Bergenser · #27 Posted **Dec 21, 2006, 2:50 PM**

ofcourse we don't need supertalls but why not build'em?

a few supertalls will make Europe less "oldish"

it's great that Moscow create supertall's right now! Will be the first in European history.

Go Supertalls

coth · #28 Posted **Dec 21, 2006, 3:52 PM**

it's you don't need them. but moscow is facing significant shortage of spaces. that's why there are tens thousands of highrises and dozens of supertall projects.

Chrissib · #29 Posted **Dec 21, 2006, 4:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by coth

Highrise residentials is actually European legacy

Where in europe are residential highrises???

coth · #30 Posted **Dec 21, 2006, 6:01 PM**

1. Europe is a homeland of commieblocks.
2. Just go any big city. You will see them.

Minato Ku · #31 Posted **Dec 21, 2006, 8:00 PM**

Paris the city of love

Those residencial high-rises are actually located in Paris (inner city not suburbs)

Swede · #32 Posted **Dec 21, 2006, 10:31 PM**

Sure, the residential highrises aren't clusterd in the very core of the City like the stereotypical US city, but spread all over the metro areas. Apart from pcities like Moscow which is a vast sea of commie-blocks (and their nicer modern equivalents) even cities like Stockholm has many, many high-rise residentials here and there - even in suburbs 2-3 layers out from the City.

Chrissib · #33 Posted **Dec 24, 2006, 4:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minato Ku

Paris the city of love

Those residencial high-rises are actually located in Paris (inner city not suburbs)

I don't mean that 70s highrises, but the new highrises built in the 90s and 00s in Hong Kong and UAE who are like 250m tall and for middle-income-people and not for the poor like in EU.

Jonas · #34 Posted **Dec 24, 2006, 6:04 PM**

Chrissib, there are many new residential highrises rising all around Europe from London and Lisbon to Warsaw and Vilnius. Not only many of them are for "middle class" but, in fact, some of them seem like really luxury pieces to live in and cost loads more than a posh house in a good suburban area outside of the city centre. Highrise living in Europe isn't as popular as in Asia (apparently due to space issues in most cases) but it's certainly there and you can see it pretty much in every major city in the EU and beyound.

anm · #35 Posted **Dec 24, 2006, 6:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrissib

I don't mean that 70s highrises, but the new highrises built in the 90s and 00s in Hong Kong and UAE who are like 250m tall and for middle-income-people and not for the poor like in EU.

In Hong Kong land is very limited, so builing very high residential towers is the only option. Nowhere in Europe there is such limit of space, so residentail high-rises are lower. But this does not have much to do with the subject of supertalls in Europe. Few people live in supertalls even in Hong Kong anyway.

Minato Ku · #36 Posted **Dec 25, 2006, 12:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrissib

I don't mean that 70s highrises, but the new highrises built in the 90s and 00s in Hong Kong and UAE who are like 250m tall and for middle-income-people and not for the poor like in EU.

Those buildings in Paris are not for poor but for upper middle class

Marcu · #37 Posted **Dec 25, 2006, 12:55 AM**

Mostly height restrictions and down-zoning. All the talk about "not needing" supertalls is completely innacurate. Most Western European countries have very expensive housing and land despite a zero growth or declining population. A few supertall residentials could certainly add some much needed living space but Europe can't seem to find a balance between aesthetic quality and practicability, and fundemental economics is usually looked down upon. Also, a lot of the height restrictions are a product of the landed class' desire to maintain high land prices.

Builder-Lemming · #38 Posted **Dec 29, 2006, 9:29 AM**

well, think about which european country starts to build such skyscrapers and which countries and cities are leading in this department...

the first supertall is going to be build in moskow, russia, the country with the world wide worst poor-rich gap, the usa as the leading skyscraper country has the biggest poor rich gap in the western world

the only town in germany with a higher density of skyscrapers is frankfurt am main, the town with the highest crime rate in the whole country, a lot higher than for example in new york!

might be an uncomfortable truth, but skyscrapers always reflect a certain socio-cultural attitude, and its neither good reason nor philanthropy or humanism...

it may be contrary to the nature of market economy but humbleness is still a value in many european countries, its not a matter of capability, european has the most healthy economies with the highest living standards in the world, norway for example has the highest gross national product per person of all territorial state, yet the highest building doesnt exceed 120 meters

skyscrapers are not an indication for wealth and power but rather for wealth and power in the wrong hands

Fabb · #39 Posted **Dec 29, 2006, 10:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by anm

In Hong Kong land is very limited, so builing very high residential towers is the only option.

That's probably true of the HK island, but not the HK territory that is mostly not urbanized and offers plenty of space for housing.
The fact that it's filled with high-rises is a choice, not a necessity.

Let's be honest : high-rises allow the density that makes transportation easier, cheaper, more efficient. Housing the population in low rises results in urban sprawl...

staff · #40 Posted **Dec 29, 2006, 2:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabb

That's probably true of the HK island, but not the HK territory that is mostly not urbanized and offers plenty of space for housing.
The fact that it's filled with high-rises is a choice, not a necessity.

Actually, 97% or so of the Hong Kong territory is protected land where developments are prohibited, so I'd say that it is both a choice and a necessity.