[Halifax] Southport Halifax | 21 m | 6 fl | Complete

[someone123]

Killam Properties is planning a $30M, 6-7 storey mixed condo and rental building at 1065 Barrington that will contain 150 units. It's going to replace two little buildings between the Superstore and the Tim Hortons. Hopefully the Superstore and Tim Hortons will be redeveloped someday too.

There's also the development site at Barrington and Kent so that neighbourhood may change pretty noticeably over the next few years.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by someone123

Killam Properties is planning a $30M, 6-7 storey mixed condo and rental building at 1065 Barrington that will contain 150 units. It's going to replace two little buildings between the Superstore and the Tim Hortons. Hopefully the Superstore and Tim Hortons will be redeveloped someday too.

Nice! This end of Barrington is starting to get some decent residential density. At some point there may be a tempting business case for redeveloping the Superstore.

I wonder if this rumoured proposal will have commercial space as well?

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

Killam Properties is planning a $30M, 6-7 storey mixed condo and rental building at 1065 Barrington that will contain 150 units. It's going to replace two little buildings between the Superstore and the Tim Hortons. Hopefully the Superstore and Tim Hortons will be redeveloped someday too.

There's also the development site at Barrington and Kent so that neighbourhood may change pretty noticeably over the next few years.

Praise Jeebus. An ideal site.

I wonder what such a development might contribute to Barrington--the old housesacross the street form a commercial streetwall. It would be nice for that storefront character to be mirrored in any new construction, extending Barrington's high-street function further south.

[someone123]

Not sure if it will have commercial but it is easy to imagine the far southern end of Barrington being like the Morris Street area today. It already has a decent mix of mid-sized buildings and shops.

Having more secondary commercial areas like that would make the city feel a lot larger and a lot more interesting. Halifax is lucky that it has so many well laid out streets that it can grow into like this. The equivalent of the south end of Barrington would be out in the bungalow belt of all but a few Canadian cities, and areas like that are much harder to improve upon incrementally.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

Killam Properties is planning a $30M, 6-7 storey mixed condo and rental building at 1065 Barrington that will contain 150 units. It's going to replace two little buildings between the Superstore and the Tim Hortons. Hopefully the Superstore and Tim Hortons will be redeveloped someday too.

There's also the development site at Barrington and Kent so that neighbourhood may change pretty noticeably over the next few years.

Looks like a great development that will replace 2 unremarkable buildings. Excellent!

Questions regarding your redeveloping Superstore comment:
- Doesn't a store such as this support further residential growth in the area by making a walkable grocery run possible for the many local residents?

- Or, are you simply suggesting that replacing the existing Superstore and parking lot with a mixed retail (grocery) / residential complex would be a better use of the land?

The reason I ask is that, other than the undesirable "look" of a sprawling grocery store and parking lot, it seems to serve the local community very well.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by someone123

Killam Properties is planning a $30M, 6-7 storey mixed condo and rental building at 1065 Barrington that will contain 150 units. It's going to replace two little buildings between the Superstore and the Tim Hortons. Hopefully the Superstore and Tim Hortons will be redeveloped someday too.

There's also the development site at Barrington and Kent so that neighbourhood may change pretty noticeably over the next few years.

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Nice! This end of Barrington is starting to get some decent residential density. At some point there may be a tempting business case for redeveloping the Superstore.

I wonder if this rumoured proposal will have commercial space as well?

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Looks like a great development that will replace 2 unremarkable buildings. Excellent!

Questions regarding your redeveloping Superstore comment:
- Doesn't a store such as this support further residential growth in the area by making a walkable grocery run possible for the many local residents?

- Or, are you simply suggesting that replacing the existing Superstore and parking lot with a mixed retail (grocery) / residential complex would be a better use of the land?

The reason I ask is that, other than the undesirable "look" of a sprawling grocery store and parking lot, it seems to serve the local community very well.

The problem with the store is not just the undesirable "look" (although it is one of the ugliest and most blatant surface lots downtown due to it prominent location near the bus/train station) but also the wasteful use of land that could support much more density.

Having a sprawly look isn't just an issue of aesthetics though; it's also a functional issue since it affects pedestrian experience and how it fits into and interacts with the urban landscape. Based on my experience with the store there are easily as many if not more people arriving there on foot and bike than in car, and it's not pleasant to have to walk through a large parking lot to get into a local business when you're supposed to be living in a city.

The main entrance should be at the corner where the gas bar now is, and there should also be a staircare portal to a lower parking level. There should be a residential highrise wrapping around the back similar to the Quinpool set up (obviously with a more attractive building), and the vehicle access for the parking level would be off Barrington where the current loading bays are. The gas bar would be under an overhang portion of the highrise toward the back. The front of the building it wouldn't be built right to the street, but rather behind a loading lane and a few accessible parking spaces similar to the Westin and the train station.

[Jonovision]

The window wall has gone up on the back half of the building.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

The problem with the store is not just the undesirable "look" (although it is one of the ugliest and most blatant surface lots downtown due to it prominent location near the bus/train station) but also the wasteful use of land that could support much more density.

Having a sprawly look isn't just an issue of aesthetics though; it's also a functional issue since it affects pedestrian experience and how it fits into and interacts with the urban landscape. Based on my experience with the store there are easily as many if not more people arriving there on foot and bike than in car, and it's not pleasant to have to walk through a large parking lot to get into a local business when you're supposed to be living in a city.

There's a sidewalk though. The parking lot is really easy to go around. I live a few blocks from there and buy groceries there every other day.

I agree that the site definitely has a lot more potential than its current use, but I do see this mostly as a case of missed potential, not actual inconvenience to pedestrians, at least in my experience.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

The problem with the store is not just the undesirable "look" (although it is one of the ugliest and most blatant surface lots downtown due to it prominent location near the bus/train station) but also the wasteful use of land that could support much more density.

The reason I mention aesthetics is that it constantly comes up as a main point every time surface parking is mentioned. I understand the land use issues, but I have to address the aesthetic issue because it is always mentioned.

Having a sprawly look isn't just an issue of aesthetics though; it's also a functional issue since it affects pedestrian experience and how it fits into and interacts with the urban landscape. Based on my experience with the store there are easily as many if not more people arriving there on foot and bike than in car, and it's not pleasant to have to walk through a large parking lot to get into a local business when you're supposed to be living in a city.

As Hali mentioned, you never have to walk through the parking lot if you are traveling on foot or by bike. Take a look at it on the Google maps link below and you will see the entrance to the store is directly linked to the sidewalk by a wide walkway. There is also a crosswalk located at about the mid-point of the building to get you to the residential areas.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.63837...7i13312!8i6656

The other side of the store/parking lot only leads to the park or hotel/train station, so I don't see where that would be an issue for pedestrians. I've shopped there many times and have yet to see an empty parking lot, so therefore I believe they need to provide parking for their customers.

So while I agree that perhaps the store could be laid out better from an urban perspective, its current layout is not beautiful but is functional.

As an aside, thinking of an urban-layout grocery store, how would a 2+ storey grocery store work, with everybody pushing carts around? Seems like you would need an abundance of elevators to move people from level to level with their carts. I'm sure they exist but can't recall shopping in one, so I'm wondering how practical this type of layout could be.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

As Hali mentioned, you never have to walk through the parking lot if you are traveling on foot or by bike. Take a look at it on the Google maps link below and you will see the entrance to the store is directly linked to the sidewalk by a wide walkway. There is also a crosswalk located at about the mid-point of the building to get you to the residential areas.

Anytime I've went there I've always been coming down Barrington, so i'd either have to take the long way to avoid the parking lot and gas station, or take the most direct route by going through it. which is what I do. And that's what i was getting at. Inconveniencing pedestrians for the sake of catering to automobiles. It isn't a matter of whether one has to walk thru the parking lot or be forced to walk an extended walk way, but rather having people diverted and forced to walk extra distance to get to an entrance that should have been built at the street, like on Quinpool.

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

The other side of the store/parking lot only leads to the park or hotel/train station, so I don't see where that would be an issue for pedestrians. I've shopped there many times and have yet to see an empty parking lot, so therefore I believe they need to provide parking for their customers.

So while I agree that perhaps the store could be laid out better from an urban perspective, its current layout is not beautiful but is functional.

Just because there's a need (or perhaps desire is a better term than need) to provide parking, it doesn't mean the parking has to be front and centre and be the focus of the development. And some would also argue that the concept of demand inducement applies here. If you invite people to do things a certain way, make it the most visible/obvious way and make it easy for them to do it, then chances are many will do it. From what i can tell, Pete's Frootique doesn't have any parking at all, but I'm 100% certain that if it did, the lot wouldn't sit empty either. So, that would be proof that it was needed?

Besides, things that are built in an auto centric manner are often to some degree functional; my criticism is of how they function. If it didn't function at all then the store would go out of business and we'd have no need for discussion.

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

As an aside, thinking of an urban-layout grocery store, how would a 2+ storey grocery store work, with everybody pushing carts around? Seems like you would need an abundance of elevators to move people from level to level with their carts. I'm sure they exist but can't recall shopping in one, so I'm wondering how practical this type of layout could be.

The shoppers on SGR is two levels as well and they also have the choice of baskets which seem most popular or carts and an elevator with cart capacity (and many people even in grocery stores use baskets nowdays). But I don't think the main shopping concourse would really need to be on more than one level. They could always put axillary functions upstairs, like the NSLC, healthfood section, washrooms, Joe Fresh, canteen/sitting area etc.

[Drybrain]

I feel like Cornwallis Park is a totally overlooked and potentially quite grand civic space. As the impressive buildings that used to surround it have been torn down, it's become more and more of an afterthought, and that parking lot is the final insult.

There should be some sort of revitalization plan to address this. It's a great neighbourhood asset that isn't even close to fulfilling its potential.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Anytime I've went there I've always been coming down Barrington, so i'd either have to take the long way to avoid the parking lot and gas station, or take the most direct route by going through it. which is what I do. And that's what i was getting at. Inconveniencing pedestrians for the sake of catering to automobiles. It isn't a matter of whether one has to walk thru the parking lot or be forced to walk an extended walk way, but rather having people diverted and forced to walk extra distance to get to an entrance that should have been built at the street, like on Quinpool.



Just because there's a need (or perhaps desire is a better term than need) to provide parking, it doesn't mean the parking has to be front and centre and be the focus of the development. And some would also argue that the concept of demand inducement applies here. If you invite people to do things a certain way, make it the most visible/obvious way and make it easy for them to do it, then chances are many will do it. From what i can tell, Pete's Frootique doesn't have any parking at all, but I'm 100% certain that if it did, the lot wouldn't sit empty either. So, that would be proof that it was needed?

Besides, things that are built in an auto centric manner are often to some degree functional; my criticism is of how they function. If it didn't function at all then the store would go out of business and we'd have no need for discussion.

So the bulk of your argument is based on the idea of for whom the store layout should be more convenient, pedestrians, cyclists, or motorists. Fair enough.

I suggest the best design would be to put pedestrians first by having the store frontage right up to the sidewalk, as suggested. Then have parking to the rear or underground, as suggested, to accommodate motorists, motorcyclists/scooters, and bicyclists. The reason I would put bicycle racks at the rear entrance is to avoid conflict with pedestrians. I have had a few close calls with bicyclists who ride their bikes on pedestrian access areas for their own convenience with little regard for pedestrians - I see it happening regularly. A bonus for pedestrians is that the cash registers will likely be less busy at the front entrance so they will get out of the store more quickly than their petrol-consuming and pedal-pushing counterparts.

FWIW, both Pete's locations have ample parking. The Bedford location is in Sunnyside Mall, which has parking on upper, lower and underground levels. The Halifax location has parking in the parkade which is located within the building. IIRC, Pete's gives a discount coupon for parking with purchase.

[kph06]

Here is a rendering of Southport:


Source

[mcmcclassic]

That's a decent little building for that end of town. Some more at grade retail down here would do wonders for the neighbourhood too!

[someone123]

I like it. It's simple and almost reminds me of 50's/60's modern buildings. I wish this sort of style would have become popular in Halifax a long time ago.

[Drybrain]

I like it a lot too. It does have a sort of mid-century modern thing going on, like a contemporary reclad of a modernist building.

As usual, sidewalk interaction isn't amazing. Rather than one large, property-spanning storefront, I'd like to see it split in two--more business opportunity, and more amenable to small businesses. Given the size of the space and the location a little off the pedestrian beaten path, we're probably not too likely to see any unique or interesting shops in there. (Hello, Starbucks, or something along those lines.)

But that's a small quibble, overall. Nice to see even small-scale projects getting better and better designed. This would be an above-par project in any city.

[scooby074]

I suppose it's great if you want to look like you live in a shipping container

Get rid of the "rainbow" cladding on the ends and it would look considerably better in my eyes.

Maybe shipping-container-chic is what they are going for

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by scooby074

I suppose it's great if you want to look like you live in a shipping container

Get rid of the "rainbow" cladding on the ends and it would look considerably better in my eyes.

Maybe shipping-container-chic is what they are going for

C'mon. It's different! And the location is amazing.

I wonder how decent the view will be from the 6th floor.

[Wishblade]

Originally Posted by scooby074

I suppose it's great if you want to look like you live in a shipping container

Get rid of the "rainbow" cladding on the ends and it would look considerably better in my eyes.

Maybe shipping-container-chic is what they are going for

I'm almost positive that's what their going for, and there's nothing crazy about it IMO. I actually hope more proposals like it come about. There's just something oddly contemporary about it and I think it would be a great trend to start near the container port .

[Nifta]

Originally Posted by Wishblade

I'm almost positive that's what their going for, and there's nothing crazy about it IMO. I actually hope more proposals like it come about. There's just something oddly contemporary about it and I think it would be a great trend to start near the container port .

They definitely are. This is from their website:

"Halifax's first loft-style condo development is a nod to the city's rich shipping industry - and an exciting indication of things to come. Located in the historic South End, with downtown just minutes away to the north, and the port and Point Pleasant Park a short walk to the south, Southport is designed to be reminiscent of shipping containers, for an old-school industrial look that's new, urban, and unabashedly modern"