Halifax Stadium Discussion

[hfx_chris]

Speaking of Dartmouth Crossing, what about that HRM football field constructed along Commodore Drive? There's not much to it, and the seating capacity is pretty lame...I wonder how difficult it would be to erect some proper seating around that. They'd have to get rid of the soccer field right next to it though.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

Anybody know what the plans are for the undeveloped section to the immediate north of Dartmouth Crossing? Is it just me, or would that be perfect for a stadium? Right on a major highway, quick walk/drive to the restaurants of DC... shopping.

Residential neighbourhood I believe with maybe a bit more commercial.

[hfx_chris]

Well that's no good. But there is still the land to the west of DC. Unless that's claimed as well. I think it would be a great site for a stadium.

Even better than Shannon Park

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

Well that's no good. But there is still the land to the west of DC. Unless that's claimed as well. I think it would be a great site for a stadium.

Even better than Shannon Park

If you consider HRM owned lands set aside for industrial use as claimed then yes unfortunately its claimed.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

Agreed Halifax is a huge football town. Big Huskies supporter myself.

Saskatoon is actually not a CFL city, the RR's are in Regina. But they are embraced by the entire province of Saskatchewan.

As for size and support, Halifax is a larger city than both Regina and Saskatoon. 400k vs about 206k for Regina and 233k for Saskatoon. They have a slight edge in provincial pop., (1M) but not if you take NS, NB and PEI together. We have a combined pop. of 1.5M and a far more compact area than Saskatchewan.

Well then, I see no reason why we couldn't have a team.

Those DND lands are also close to the burbs and traffic coming from farther outside the city. Parking isn't a problem in that part of town at all.

[hfx_chris]

Originally Posted by Bedford_DJ

If you consider HRM owned lands set aside for industrial use as claimed then yes unfortunately its claimed.

Okay, then you tell me where there's any land around that isn't owned by somebody. Point is, no matter where a stadium goes, somebody already owns the land, whether it's privately owned or owned by the government.

[hfx_chris]

Oh and don't forget, HRM already built a couple of sports fields on part of that land, so don't assume everything is set in stone.

[Dmajackson]

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

Okay, then you tell me where there's any land around that isn't owned by somebody. Point is, no matter where a stadium goes, somebody already owns the land, whether it's privately owned or owned by the government.

Woah sorry I didn't mean to touch a nerve there I was just stating what are currently the plans for the area.

I'd personally have it in town but somewheres that won't block future developments so the Young lands would work since the likelyhood of that ever being truely urban looking is low and its at the edge of the peninsula but still walkable.

Another good area might be on the Mainland Commons as close as possible to the Canada Games Centre and Lacewood interchange.

Heck a bomb spot would be the Ashburn Golf Club. It's right next to a Bi-Hi interchange (out-of-towners), Armdale Roundabout (Spryfield), Windsor Street Exchange (Bedford & Dartmouth), the future trail to BL. What I would do is extend Mumford Rd to Northwest Arm Drive, and a new overpass for Hillcrest St to the new road and then Winter St.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Well then, I see no reason why we couldn't have a team.

Those DND lands are also close to the burbs and traffic coming from farther outside the city. Parking isn't a problem in that part of town at all.

There is no question in my mind that HRM would be granted a franchise if HRM had a stadium since they were granted a conditional franchise in 1983 (Atlantic Schooners). However, the franchise was withdrawn because the different levels of government would not support a stadium. Maybe now it would be different since Halifax and Dartmouth have been amalgamated so the municipality is larger with a proportionately larger tax base. Now would be a good time to try to get federal stimulus money for a stadium (although it would likely only be 10 - 15%, similar to the percentage offered for the Blue Bombers stadium). Then they would need at least a matching amount from the provincial government. Unlike other facilities like a library (which HRM needs also) there will be some income from a stadium so it could be financed over a number of years.

With regards to the Dartmouth Crossings site, I wonder if this is something that the developers of Dartmouth Crossings would be interested in. One advantage of this location is that there is lots of vacant land and since it is industrial there shouldn't be much opposition. I think that this would also be a good location for a sunken bowl (partially excavated). I like the forum site the best since it is close to downtown Halifax, however it might be easier to get something build at the Dartmouth Crossings site.

With regards to the cost, the Moncton stadium is only going to cost 17 million dollars for 10,000 seats. The least expensive option would be to build say 20,000 permanent seats (or benches) for say 40 million with all the washroom facilities and then have 10,000 temporary seats. This is something that would be relatively painless and then if things work out then additional permanent seats/benches could be added. Possibly even a partial roof could be added after it is up and running. Or just put up 10,000 permanent seats with room for 20,000 temporary seats so that it can get built in the very near future.

[someone123]

I think the best site is on the large field by Robie Street (Gorsebrook I guess). The site is close to Dal, SMU, and the downtown. Putting it near Young Street would likely also work, and would provide a good impetus for some other improvements.

I dislike the idea of putting the stadium in the suburbs somewhere next to a highway. That kind of development promotes sprawl, leads to less interesting venues, and is not necessarily even any better from an accessibility point of view. The Common worked fine for a concert with 50,000 people with very little purpose-built infrastructure - lots of people can just walk, the city's easily served by transit, and there are plenty of nearby roads and parking spaces.

Supporting a CFL franchise in Halifax seems like a foregone conclusion, given a stadium. Not sure it's worth the public funds, however.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

This was posted in the "CFL in the Maritimes" thread of the Atlantic Provinces section ( http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...153061&page=11 ). This is the sort of stadium and price that I had in mind for Halifax. The proposed Blue Bombers Stadium is nicer but about twice the price. The new stadium in Akron is called the Summa Field at InfoCision Stadium and there is information at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summa_F...Cision_Stadium . It was built for 61.6 million US dollars and has bench type seating with a capacity of 30,000. The end zones are open which would allow for temporary seating for a Grey Cup. It appears as though the first tier of seating is sunken which would reduce the construction cost. The end zones are simply a grassy knoll.

Just imagine this at the site north of the Halifax Forum.

This type of stadium is ideal for Halifax. The north end of DC would be a good location and if DND would be willing to do a land swap, Willow Park would be perfect. No buildings worth saving, central and lots of space.

I think condominiums could be part of the stadium structure. Much like High Rise II at SMU overlooks Huskies Stadium you could have a similar building being part of the stadium structure. May as well add a hotel to the mix.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by Takeo

What exactly would we do with this stadium if we had one?

I know you are genuinely asking the question, and not just being negative (so I am not being critical at you)... but I fear that this is exactly the reaction that many on HRM will have.

But really, at that point, why have any performing arts theaters when they just sit empty 95% of the time, why have the metro centre when it sits empty 95% of the time, why have a convention centre when it sits empty 95% of the time... etc etc etc

Public venues such as this are never ever going to be money makers. They will always require public funds, and I am ok with that. Because the fact is that what the public is paying for is quality of life, civic pride, the ability to attract young educated people who are mobile and looking for a place to live and work that has "life" to it.

I know that there will always be people in the HRM who will say "but I don't watch football so why should my money go to a stadium", which to me is just short sited and misses the point. Because sports people can simply say the same thing about public money going to the arts. At the end of the day, the best overall quality of life comes from cities imaginative enough to figure out a) how to build good public venues like this and b) what they should be used for that will improve peoples enjoyment of the city.

What will a stadium be used for? LOTS of things. Football. Concerts. Track & Field. Etc. Etc. Etc. 95% of the time it will be empty (as will Neptune Theatre, Metro Centre...), but the payback in terms of quality of life for people in Halifax is priceless.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by beyeas

I know you are genuinely asking the question, and not just being negative (so I am not being critical at you)... but I fear that this is exactly the reaction that many on HRM will have.

But really, at that point, why have any performing arts theaters when they just sit empty 95% of the time, why have the metro centre when it sits empty 95% of the time, why have a convention centre when it sits empty 95% of the time... etc etc etc

Public venues such as this are never ever going to be money makers. They will always require public funds, and I am ok with that. Because the fact is that what the public is paying for is quality of life, civic pride, the ability to attract young educated people who are mobile and looking for a place to live and work that has "life" to it.

I know that there will always be people in the HRM who will say "but I don't watch football so why should my money go to a stadium", which to me is just short sited and misses the point. Because sports people can simply say the same thing about public money going to the arts. At the end of the day, the best overall quality of life comes from cities imaginative enough to figure out a) how to build good public venues like this and b) what they should be used for that will improve peoples enjoyment of the city.

What will a stadium be used for? LOTS of things. Football. Concerts. Track & Field. Etc. Etc. Etc. 95% of the time it will be empty (as will Neptune Theatre, Metro Centre...), but the payback in terms of quality of life for people in Halifax is priceless.

Well said. Someone shoud start a Stadium Trust Fund now. HRM, Fusion, Downtown Buisness Assoc, Young Entrepreneurs, Sport Nova Scotia......someone....and then fundraise and have a stadium scratch & win etc. perhaps even shares as with the farmers market. The problem is that no one takes the first step. We should have been fundraising since the Atlantic Schooners fizzled and we could build with cash now!

[someone123]

Neither the Metro Centre nor the Neptune are empty 95% of the time. During the next week or so the Metro Centre will host a Mooseheads game, David Copperfield (twice), and a concert. A stadium could similarly host a variety of events, not just the CFL games.

[q12]

fenwick16 I just wanted to re-post your comments here to help people get interested.

Originally Posted by fenwick16

With regards to the Halifax commons, I realize that it likely will not happen, however, what a great location. I didn't realize that the Exhibition Park was difficult to get into, maybe it should be ruled out. It seems like the Forum lands and Dartmouth Crossings vicinity are the two best possibilities so far.

I think that this forum is a great way for people to become proactive regarding getting a stadium built in the Halifax area. Once it gets to say 200 posts, I think that it would be good to start contacting people who can actually start the ball rolling, for example in the Halifax Regional Council, Provincial government, Scott Ferguson, Trade Centre Limited, etc.They could be contacted by email and send a link to this thread (or probably the Halifax thread). Maybe a representative in Halifax could contact them in person. It would be great to get someone like Scott Ferguson involved in this discussion on Skyscraperpage (I don't think that this is too far fetched). I don't know him, but maybe there is someone on this forum who does. Also, does any Skyscraperpage forum-er know someone in the city council who would champion this cause?

Saint Mary's University is an organization that should be looked at.


Section of Huskies Stadium declared unsafe, to be torn down



A portion of the derelict Huskies Stadium grandstand will be removed in the next few weeks. It is the second time in a decade a section of the stadium has had to be dismantled. (Christian Laforce / Staff)

By MONTY MOSHER Sports Reporter
Tue. Sep 1 2009 - 4:45 AM

Another chunk of the derelict Huskies Stadium grandstand is headed for the wrecker’s ball.

For the second time in a decade, engineers have determined a portion of the 40-year-old seating area is unsafe and must be removed. Seating for upwards of 300 spectators at the top of the grandstand will be torn out and replaced with a grass embankment, much the same as occurred on the opposite side nine years ago.

The Huskies football team plays its first two games on the road and won’t be home until Sept. 26 against Sherbrooke. Plans are to have the concrete torn out by then.

Saint Mary’s athletic director Steve Sarty said the area of the grandstand to be demolished is the only area deemed unsafe.

"The engineers have confirmed that the rest of the stands are totally safe," Sarty said on Monday.

The problem is not rotting concrete and steel but deterioration of the earth embankment behind it. "The mud in the back of the seats is sliding," Sarty said.

The remaining concrete infrastructure will seat up to 1,700, said Sarty. The university has some temporary seating at field level and will bring in a portable club-seat section, which includes some luxury boxes, to add more than 500 seats for football.


It is a bad year to lose seating with the stadium set to be the site for the 2009 Uteck Bowl between the AUS and Canada West winners.

"Anyone who has been over there to see those seats … it’s certainly not new by any stretch," said Sarty. "Some of them are in worse shape than others. I guess the positive is it’s going to balance out the look of the seats and bring the crowd a little closer together and, hopefully, will help the sales of the club seats on the other side, too."

Sarty said the university has a long-term plan for a "bigger, proper" seating area to replace the grandstand, but there is no timetable for the job.



Huskies need a new stadium badly. The CFL would need a stadium. More outdoor concerts could be held in a stadium. We've got to get the ball rolling on this before we let an opportunity pass us by.

There is an online petition that could use some more signatures as well.

http://www.petitiononline.com/hstadium/petition.html

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by q12

Huskies need a new stadium badly. The CFL would need a stadium. More outdoor concerts could be held in a stadium. We've got to get the ball rolling on this before we let an opportunity pass us by.

There is an online petition that could use some more signatures as well.

http://www.petitiononline.com/hstadium/petition.html

I agree with q12, it is time to get the ball moving. I signed the petition. I wonder if the author of the petition is on this forum.

To bad there isn't enough space on the SMU campus for a large stadium. One negative against the SMU site is that it doesn't have highway access like the DND/Halifax Forum area or Dartmouth Crossings). Do you think that SMU might be interested in playing their games off-campus? If they would be willing to play their games at the new stadium they would be able to redevelop the current SMU field for academic purposes.

Another person to contact would be Peter Mackay the Minister of National Defence and Minister for the Atlantic Gateway (and a Nova Scotian). He was at the announcement of the CFL game in Moncton. It is interesting that the Federal government and New Brunswick government jointly contributed 1.5 million dollars for just one CFL game in Moncton. Also the federal government was to prepared to contribute 400 million to the Commonwealth games bid in HRM.

Great comments by beyeas also. Just look at the positive impact that the Metro Centre has had on the quality of life in the HRM.

[q12]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

I agree with q12, it is time to get the ball moving. I signed the petition. I wonder if the author of the petition is on this forum.

To bad there isn't enough space on the SMU campus for a large stadium. One negative against the SMU site is that it doesn't have highway access like the DND/Halifax Forum area or Dartmouth Crossings). Do you think that SMU might be interested in playing their games off-campus? If they would be willing to play their games at the new stadium they would be able to redevelop the current SMU field for academic purposes.

I think SMU would play games off campus if it meant a better facililty and better attendance.

Another area that a stadium would fit is off of Dunbrack Street between Knightsridge Dr and Wentworth Dr. I'm not sure what the plan is for that land, it was used for radio towers in the past. The access to the 102 from Dunbrack street is excellent, and Dunbrack was built to accommodate six lanes in the future. It would also be close to Mount Saint Vincent University.

I feel that HRM owes its citizens something from the failed commonwealth games fiasco, and especially Mayor Kelly. What we need is to come up with some options to offer to council. They should include 2-3 different size stadiums ranging from a small affordable and upgradeable stadium to a larger facility like the one planned for Winnipeg. Also several sites should be suggested so that there will not be instant rejection due to an unacceptable location.

We've got some pretty development savvy people on this forum, we should be able to come up with some great ideas that could be forwarded to the right people. Just imagine if this little form could be the catalyst to get the ball rolling on a new stadium for Halifax and for Nova Scotia.

[cormiermax]

I could see if I could get some designs if that's needed.

[thurmas]

boy this is sad just my view from winnipeg here but boy is halifax ever getting beat by moncton. Halifax is what more than double the size of moncton yet can't even keep their tiny cis stadium up to code. Halifax deserves cfl football and a new stadium yet your politicians don't seem to give a s*&# about it, how sad.

[q12]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

I could see if I could get some designs if that's needed.

Cormiermax that would be extreamely helpful. We need to get some consensus among members of this forum on what size and locations we should narrow our focus to. Maybe we could get a Poll set-up with some options on location and size.

Originally Posted by thurmas

boy this is sad just my view from winnipeg here but boy is halifax ever getting beat by moncton. Halifax is what more than double the size of moncton yet can't even keep their tiny cis stadium up to code. Halifax deserves cfl football and a new stadium yet your politicians don't seem to give a s*&# about it, how sad.

I hear you Thurmas, it is sad. It's like the idea of Saskatoon getting 5 Phoenix Coyotes Games over Winnipeg, if Ice Edge Holdings buys the team. But as a Haliagonian I'm tired of being sad and indifferent. I'm not gonna bash the politicians in power since we are going to need them on board. I'm also not prepared to let this idea fizzle out like it has in the past.