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  #41  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
I thought the busiest interchange in Canada was the 401-427 in Toronto.
yes, this would intuitively make sense. I suspect Toronto has a few interchanges that rack up the top three in Canada in terms of traffic volumes.

an older thread on spaghetti junctions: https://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1..._620/image.jpg
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  #42  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 4:31 PM
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Toronto thinks big with the little things. It thinks small with the big ticket items.
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  #43  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 6:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
The previous turcot interchange was the most impressive mess of highway spaghetti in Canada, despite how dilapidated it had become on account of inadequate maintenance, salting the roads, and the extremely harsh winter climate of Montreal.

I drove through the Turcot on the A-720 into downtown a few years ago just after they had torn down a lot of the old structures. For about 1-2 km I was surrounded by ragged concrete pillars and rusty steel bars, with rubble and debris all over the place. The lineup of old pillars with the old roadway collapsed around them reminded me of a Hollywood disaster movie when LA gets destroyed by an earthquake, aliens or Godzilla. Pretty freaky.
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  #44  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 6:44 PM
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Saskatoon thought big when it planned to host World University Games in 2007 but city council backed out by vote of 6 to 5 before winning city of Bangkok eventually went on to win the bid to host those games.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Summer_Universiade

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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
That's interesting, I don't remember that at all. Was the plan for all the athletics events to host them in a temporarily expanded Griffiths Stadium or was a new venue part of the plan?
Not remembering would not be unexpected, I doubt bid got any attention outside the province of Saskatchewan to be honest.

I think the plan at the time was indeed to temporary expand Griffiths to +30 thousand seats, have the athletes village for 12,000 participants where Riverlanding is today.

The Province, City of Saskatoon and University of Saskatchewan weren't able to get any support from Ottawa for a bid unfortunately. This was around the time Toronto was placing Summer Olympic bids for 1996 and 2008 games and eventually received half $billion in Federal funding for their PanAm games. In addition Saskatoon's Universiade Games bid was less than 18 months after September 11th 2001 and the security costs escalation for these types of games.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...games-1.355489

Here's a link to get an idea of the history of the Universiade Games themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universiade
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  #45  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 6:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I drove through the Turcot on the A-720 into downtown a few years ago just after they had torn down a lot of the old structures. For about 1-2 km I was surrounded by ragged concrete pillars and rusty steel bars, with rubble and debris all over the place. The lineup of old pillars with the old roadway collapsed around them reminded me of a Hollywood disaster movie when LA gets destroyed by an earthquake, aliens or Godzilla. Pretty freaky.
Funny, it almost looked the same before any such demolition, on account of the advanced decay (old Pont-Champlain-style).
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  #46  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 6:49 PM
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Funny, it almost looked the same before any such demolition, on account of the advanced decay (old Pont-Champlain-style).
I have to admit the thought had crossed my mind.
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  #47  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2020, 7:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
the new Champlain bridge came online last year. Busiest bridge in Canada.
Ah yes that's a big boy.
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  #48  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2020, 4:20 AM
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In addition to esquire’s comment, I think there are other instances Winnipeg thinks big:

Very good immigration policy. Compared to other cities of comparable size Winnipeg is growing fast.

Local entrepreneurs now striving to provide top-of-the-class dining and entertainment options. Seriously, recently many spectacular bars and restaurants and bars have appeared! Segovia, No Such Bear, Patent 5 Distillery, etc.. Segovia has closed because its owners wanted to try something new in the future.

Massive downtown investment in recent years. True North Square and 300 Main are prime examples. For Toronto and Montreal 300 Main may just be another conventional tall luxury apartment lol, but it’s a big step for Winnipeg real estate market. There are also many small projects giving life back to downtown.

Canada’s Diversity’s Gardens. Will become the biggest botanical garden in Canada once completed. Obviously affected by COVID19 though the project is slow now.

An emphasis on boosting tourism and reputation.
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  #49  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 2:27 AM
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Montreal was thinking big with Mirabel. Back when planning began on the airport, there was talk about Montreal hitting 8 million people in the greater metro, by the year 2010.
We only just got halfway there.

Mirabel was designed to accommodate up to 50 million passengers a year. It never got above 3 million passengers per year.
Quote:
The federal government expropriation resulted in making Mirabel the world's largest airport by property area.
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Mirabel was designed to be eventually expanded to six runways and six terminal buildings, with a separate STOLport also planned. The expansion was supposed to occur in a number of phases and be completed by 2025. However, the airport never got beyond the first phase of construction, and by October 2005 runway 11/29 was closed leaving only runway 06/24 operational.In December 2009 runway 11/29 reopened with a length of 2,700 m (8,800 ft) and in April 2012 was restored to its 3,700 m (12,000 ft) length.




photos/info c/o wikipedia
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  #50  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 2:30 AM
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Mirabel is a super-rare example of where Canada went whole-hog into building something that went way beyond the minimum.

It's sad that it went bust as a passenger facility, as it became an huge bogeyman for government officials who might otherwise dare to think big on a variety of other projects.
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  #51  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 2:51 AM
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And then there was this. Right about the same time as Mirabel

mop&pail
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  #52  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 3:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
I thought the busiest interchange in Canada was the 401-427 in Toronto.
You’re right of course, got mix with Champlain bridge.
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  #53  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 3:38 AM
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Originally Posted by EspionNoir View Post
In addition to esquire’s comment, I think there are other instances Winnipeg thinks big:

Very good immigration policy. Compared to other cities of comparable size Winnipeg is growing fast.

Local entrepreneurs now striving to provide top-of-the-class dining and entertainment options. Seriously, recently many spectacular bars and restaurants and bars have appeared! Segovia, No Such Bear, Patent 5 Distillery, etc.. Segovia has closed because its owners wanted to try something new in the future.

Massive downtown investment in recent years. True North Square and 300 Main are prime examples. For Toronto and Montreal 300 Main may just be another conventional tall luxury apartment lol, but it’s a big step for Winnipeg real estate market. There are also many small projects giving life back to downtown.

Canada’s Diversity’s Gardens. Will become the biggest botanical garden in Canada once completed.
The Diversity Garden streches to 35 acres versus Montreal’s botanical garden’s 190 acres (3rd largest in the world - https://www.easy-grow.co.uk/10-amazi...-in-the-world/)
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  #54  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 5:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Martin Mtl View Post
The Diversity Garden streches to 35 acres versus Montreal’s botanical garden’s 190 acres (3rd largest in the world - https://www.easy-grow.co.uk/10-amazi...-in-the-world/)
Sorry I think I missed that very important piece of information...apologies!!
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  #55  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Montreal was thinking big with Mirabel. Back when planning began on the airport, there was talk about Montreal hitting 8 million people in the greater metro, by the year 2010.
We only just got halfway there.

Mirabel was designed to accommodate up to 50 million passengers a year. It never got above 3 million passengers per year.






photos/info c/o wikipedia
The highway to Hull was finally completed in 2012, but as a two lane death trap.
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  #56  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 2:02 PM
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A few more Montreal ones to complement what MolsonExport has already posted...

THINKING BIG

- SQUARES: Montreal has a lot of historic squares that break up the urban fabric and give the city some beautiful public spaces. In many neighbourhoods they serve as a locus of civic life. They usually have a central feature like a fountain or a statue, and lots of benches and other types of seating. They make the city feel human-scaled and pleasurable to walk around. This is common in Europe but unusual in North America, where most cities have parks and playgrounds but not these kinds of formal historic squares. It has only been within the last 20 years that most Canadian cities have begun building squares – Dundas Square, Berczy Park, the giant sparrow square in Vancouver's Olympic Village.

- CHURCHES: The churches here are very impressive. It's a reflection of the time when the church dominated every aspect of Quebec life (pretty much the definition of provincial) but they give the city a grander scale than it would otherwise have.

- BIKE INFRASTRUCTURE: Montreal got a head start in the 1980s with Canada's first network of on-street separated bike paths which helped cultivate a very robust cycling culture. It lagged behind in bike infrastructure for many years, but thanks to Projet Montréal there is a renewed focus on bringing things up to a world-class standard. The existing paths have been improved with planted medians and a new network called the Réseau Express Vélo is under construction with a level of quality reminiscent of Copenhagen.

- NEW NEIGHBOURHOODS: The master planning of new infill neighbourhoods is finally beginning to feel like it's catching up to international best practices. The Quartier des lumières (on the former Radio-Canada site) and the Molson Brewery redevelopment both call for very dense, mid-to-high rise blocks that resemble what is being built in Paris or London. It's a far cry from the lower-density infill that was built from the 1970s to early 2000s.

- QUARTIER DES SPECTACLES: This has been a very ambitious transformation of a large sector of downtown through new cultural venues, housing and most importantly some very interesting public spaces. This area used to feel like a real patchwork with a lot of vacant lots and surface parking lots, but now it feels like something cohesive.

- REVAMPED STREETS: A lot of streets are getting makeovers that are more pedestrian-friendly with attractive finishings instead of the usual concrete-and-asphalt mess you see in North America. St-Paul Street in Old Montreal and Ste-Catherine Street are the main ones, but there are other examples like Murray Street in Griffintown, a redesigned Prince Arthur Street on the Plateau and the rebuilt Plaza St-Hubert.

THINKING SMALL

- 1970s-90S INFILL: Montreal's economy was so bad in the 90s, it felt like a lot of people just kind of gave up on the idea of being a big city. The kinds of projects that were approved from the 1970s to the early 2000s were small-minded and suburban. The railyards in Little Burgundy were developed with low-density rowhouses with street-facing garages even though they are within walking distance of downtown. Big box, car-oriented development was approved for the empty lots around Marché Central, the city's wholesale market, and it now looks like something you'd find on the far edges of Vaughan or Laval, despite being surrounded by dense neighbourhoods. The Angus Yards development in Rosemont that started in the late 90s is also very suburban in feel with little duplexes and driveways.

- GRIFFINTOWN: Although it is extremely dense, the redevelopment of Griffintown is a legacy of the weak 90s economy when the city was so desperate for new development it was willing to approve anything. There was no foresight or planning, just a lot of slapdash buildings with horrendous architecture. Luckily the city is rectifying its mistakes by building new public spaces and redesigning streets to be more pedestrian-friendly. For me, Griffintown marks the transition from a small-minded era to one when Montreal is once again thinking in terms that are more ambitious.

- PEDESTRIAN STREET AND BIKE LANE HYSTERIA: This summer really highlighted the tension between the more broad-minded and insular segments of Montreal's population. Projects like the REV and the summertime pedestrianization of Mont-Royal Avenue prompted a hysterical reaction from right-wing tabloid media that seemed to reflect a very provincial or suburban view of the city as a place where you should get around by car and be given free parking right in front of your destination. Luckily the Mont-Royal pedestrianization was such a resounding success it will likely be repeated next summer.
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Last edited by Kilgore Trout; Oct 1, 2020 at 2:27 PM.
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  #57  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 2:04 PM
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It's crazy to imagine what Mirabel would have been like had it been fully built out as planned.
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  #58  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 2:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout View Post
THINKING SMALL

- 1970s-90S INFILL: Montreal's economy was so bad in the 90s, it felt like a lot of people just kind of gave up on the idea of being a big city. The kinds of projects that were approved from the 1970s to the early 2000s were small-minded and suburban. The railyards in Little Burgundy were developed with low-density rowhouses with street-facing garages even though they are within walking distance of downtown. Big box, car-oriented development was approved for the empty lots around Marché Central, the city's wholesale market, and it now looks like something you'd find on the far edges of Vaughan or Laval, despite being surrounded by dense neighbourhoods. The Angus Yards development in Rosemont that started in the late 90s is also very suburban in feel with little duplexes and driveways.
You could basically say the same for just about anywhere in Canada for that period, particularly from the early 90s to about 2000. I think Vancouver might have been the only notable exception in this regard... things kind of kept humming along, although at a much slower pace than what we'd see today. It's amazing how widespread this was across Canada. It really did feel like we had abandoned any aspirations of thinking big from an urban perspective.
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  #59  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 2:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout View Post
A few more Montreal ones to complement what MolsonExport has already posted...

THINKING BIG

- SQUARES: Montreal has a lot of historic squares that break up the urban fabric and give the city some beautiful public spaces. In many neighbourhoods they serve as a locus of civic life. They usually have a central feature like a fountain or a statue, and lots of benches and other types of seating. They make the city feel human-scaled and pleasurable to walk around. This is common in Europe but unusual in North America, where most cities have parks and playgrounds but not these kinds of formal historic squares. It has only been within the last 20 years that most Canadian cities have begun building squares – Dundas Square, Berczy Park, the giant sparrow square in Vancouver's Olympic Village.

- CHURCHES: The churches here are very impressive. It's a reflection of the time when the church dominated every aspect of Quebec life (pretty much the definition of provincial) but they give the city a grander scale than it would otherwise have.

- BIKE INFRASTRUCTURE: Montreal got a head start in the 1980s with Canada's first network of on-street separated bike paths which helped cultivate a very robust cycling culture. It lagged behind in bike infrastructure for many years, but thanks to Projet Montréal there is a renewed focus on bringing things up to a world-class standard. The existing paths have been improved with planted medians and a new network called the Réseau Express Vélo is under construction with a level of quality reminiscent of Copenhagen.

- NEW NEIGHBOURHOODS: The master planning of new infill neighbourhoods is finally beginning to feel like it's catching up to international best practices. The Quartier des lumières (on the former Radio-Canada site) and the Molson Brewery redevelopment both call for very dense, mid-to-high rise blocks that resemble what is being built in Paris or London. It's a far cry from the lower-density infill that was built from the 1970s to early 2000s.

- QUARTIER DES SPECTACLES: This has been a very ambitious transformation of a large sector of downtown through new cultural venues, housing and most importantly some very interesting public spaces. This area used to feel like a real patchwork with a lot of vacant lots and surface parking lots, but now it feels like something cohesive.

- REVAMPED STREETS: A lot of streets are getting makeovers that are more pedestrian-friendly with attractive finishings instead of the usual concrete-and-asphalt mess you see in North America. St-Paul Street in Old Montreal and Ste-Catherine Street are the main ones, but there are other examples like Murray Street in Griffintown, a redesigned Prince Arthur Street on the Plateau and the rebuilt Plaza St-Hubert.

THINKING SMALL

- 1970s-90S INFILL: Montreal's economy was so bad in the 90s, it felt like a lot of people just kind of gave up on the idea of being a big city. The kinds of projects that were approved from the 1970s to the early 2000s were small-minded and suburban. The railyards in Little Burgundy were developed with low-density rowhouses with street-facing garages even though they are within walking distance of downtown. Big box, car-oriented development was approved for the empty lots around Marché Central, the city's wholesale market, and it now looks like something you'd find on the far edges of Vaughan or Laval, despite being surrounded by dense neighbourhoods. The Angus Yards development in Rosemont that started in the late 90s is also very suburban in feel with little duplexes and driveways.

- GRIFFINTOWN: Although it is extremely dense, the redevelopment of Griffintown is a legacy of the weak 90s economy when the city was so desperate for new development it was willing to approve anything. There was no foresight or planning, just a lot of slapdash buildings with horrendous architecture. Luckily the city is rectifying its mistakes by building new public spaces and redesigning streets to be more pedestrian-friendly. For me, Griffintown marks the transition from a small-minded era to one when Montreal is once again thinking in terms that are more ambitious.

- PEDESTRIAN STREET AND BIKE LANE HYSTERIA: This summer really highlighted the tension between the more broad-minded and insular segments of Montreal's population. Projects like the REV and the summertime pedestrianization of Mont-Royal Avenue prompted a hysterical reaction from right-wing tabloid media that seemed to reflect a very provincial or suburban view of the city as a place where you should get around by car and be given free parking right in front of your destination. Luckily the Mont-Royal pedestrianization was such a resounding success it will likely be repeated next summer.
Awesome post. Great examples, and I fully concur. I recall vividly the small thinking of the nineties in Montreal (and the horrible redevelopment of little Burgundy, Angus yards, etc. Also a lot of shitty, sub-par infill projects...basically the city jumped at anything that would replace parking lots [laudable], no matter how crappy [regrettable], largely out of the gloom that pervaded the city during that ignoble decade).
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  #60  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2020, 3:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Awesome post. Great examples, and I fully concur. I recall vividly the small thinking of the nineties in Montreal (and the horrible redevelopment of little Burgundy, Angus yards, etc. Also a lot of shitty, sub-par infill projects...basically the city jumped at anything that would replace parking lots [laudable], no matter how crappy [regrettable], largely out of the gloom that pervaded the city during that ignoble decade).
There are some really good movies that evoke MolsonEx and Kool Maudit's gritty 1990s Montreal. My favourite is Eldorado, which features a bunch of young actors who later became big stars in Quebec:

https://vimeo.com/151571548

I actually met the guy in the banana outfit from the trailer in a Montreal bar during that decade. His costume was actually open at the back and he wore nothing underneath.

It's from the late 80s but Un Zoo La Nuit from the late Jean-Claude Lauzon is also a gritty Montreal movie from that era. Lauzon also made Léolo.

https://voir.ca/horaire-cinema/film/un-zoo-la-nuit/

And Denis Villeneuve, who went on to Blade Runner and Dune, also made a very gritty 90s (OK turn of the century) Montreal film in that era.

http://www.allocine.fr/video/player_...ilm=26991.html
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