Austin | RiverSouth (425 Riverside) | 234 Feet | 15 Floors | Complete

[Sigaven]

Originally Posted by drummer

Interesting. Is that the target or actual?

By 2045 they'll be ready to be finished in 2062.

[IluvATX]

This thing will be ready for an urban climb shortly enough (when I’m 50).

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by lonewolf

I am very upset with the footprint of the long center. i think it's an outrageous use of space in an area desperately in need of more transit routes

The first problem with the Long Center was the decision to re-purpose Palmer Auditorium, an obsolete building of dubious architectural merit. Palmer should have been demolished allowing for a clean slate. The second problem is that fundraising for construction of the Long Center virtually came to a halt during the economic slowdown around 2000. That's when the Intel building stopped construction, just to refresh memories of that era. There was great disappointment at the prospect of a long delay in building the new concert hall and the other venues planned for it an elaborate renovation and addition to Palmer Auditorium. As a result, it was decided (not without controversy) to eliminate one of the new performance venues and proceed with a much less lavish construction budget. The original cost estimates were around $110 million, but the decision was made to proceed with an approximately $60 million project, which was the amount of money raised or pledged as of 2003. Sometimes you get what you pay for.

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by austlar1

The first problem with the Long Center was the decision to re-purpose Palmer Auditorium, an obsolete building of dubious architectural merit. Palmer should have been demolished allowing for a clean slate. The second problem is that fundraising for construction of the Long Center virtually came to a halt during the economic slowdown around 2000. That's when the Intel building stopped construction, just to refresh memories of that era. There was great disappointment at the prospect of a long delay in building the new concert hall and the other venues planned for it an elaborate renovation and addition to Palmer Auditorium. As a result, it was decided (not without controversy) to eliminate one of the new performance venues and proceed with a much less lavish construction budget. The original cost estimates were around $110 million, but the decision was made to proceed with an approximately $60 million project, which was the amount of money raised or pledged as of 2003. Sometimes you get what you pay for.

Good post! I remember there were renders of the $110 million Long Center that I wish I could find. Perhaps they took them down to eliminate or at least reduce the disappointment of the lower budget one. The grander one was really nice. Now I wish I hadn't seen it.

[NYC2ATX]

I always liked the idea of a prominent arts and performance complex fronting Auditorium Shores and facing the downtown skyline, but I have always found the Long Center itself to be incredibly underwhelming. It would possibly benefit from a total tear-down and rebuild of a much more impressive, landmark structure.

But that's just me

[H2O]

Originally Posted by NYC2ATX

I always liked the idea of a prominent arts and performance complex fronting Auditorium Shores and facing the downtown skyline, but I have always found the Long Center itself to be incredibly underwhelming. It would possibly benefit from a total tear-down and rebuild of a much more impressive, landmark structure.

But that's just me

Sure the Long Center is less than originally envisioned, but I love the ring! It is an iconic skyline view setting that is totally unique. It would be nice to see it activated more with pop-up type festival uses (some day). I also think it could be cool to construct a custom tent-like structure that could enclose the plaza in the winter months, and maybe even provide some air conditioning in the summer, but I would not want to see the plaza permanently enclosed.

[lonewolf]

Originally Posted by austlar1

The first problem with the Long Center was the decision to re-purpose Palmer Auditorium, an obsolete building of dubious architectural merit. Palmer should have been demolished allowing for a clean slate. The second problem is that fundraising for construction of the Long Center virtually came to a halt during the economic slowdown around 2000. That's when the Intel building stopped construction, just to refresh memories of that era. There was great disappointment at the prospect of a long delay in building the new concert hall and the other venues planned for it an elaborate renovation and addition to Palmer Auditorium. As a result, it was decided (not without controversy) to eliminate one of the new performance venues and proceed with a much less lavish construction budget. The original cost estimates were around $110 million, but the decision was made to proceed with an approximately $60 million project, which was the amount of money raised or pledged as of 2003. Sometimes you get what you pay for.

thanks for history lesson! moved here in '05 so not familiar with how it happened

[lonewolf]

Originally Posted by H2O

Sure the Long Center is less than originally envisioned, but I love the ring! It is an iconic skyline view setting that is totally unique. It would be nice to see it activated more with pop-up type festival uses (some day). I also think it could be cool to construct a custom tent-like structure that could enclose the plaza in the winter months, and maybe even provide some air conditioning in the summer, but I would not want to see the plaza permanently enclosed.

lol we're derailing the thread. this is why i suggested a LC (low content) thread for bugaboos we may have about projects that don't have threads. such as the long center.

i agree the view is unique and any future project should absolutely have a large platform with similar view. closing it up would be a shame

main gripes:
-it's incredibly close to cbd and centralized within austin that getting population density there would be a MASSIVE boon for so many reasons. (eg feasibility of public projects goes up, more private projects would get greenlighted with more density, more property tax rev for city from prime location...i can go on)

-east west traffic is in a bad way just south of lady bird, probably always will be. bc it all gets shoved onto a small number of roads. the piddly two lane we have is a nightmare bc it goes through middle of park and isn't big enough to relieve traffic!

-it's fairly nice. if it was nicer, it'd be worth saving. if it was a prettier building it'd be worth saving... but it's very clearly not class A1 in quality and design

-the green space in front is so awfully designed. go to central park, golden gate park (obv both larger) but i'm using them bc we know what they look like. wide concourses, trees, places for vendors and performers. we have a lawn with an auto road through it and none of that. just an extremely poorly designed public space. 0/10

okay now back to riverside..

[H2O]

Originally Posted by lonewolf

-east west traffic is in a bad way just south of lady bird, probably always will be. bc it all gets shoved onto a small number of roads. the piddly two lane we have is a nightmare bc it goes through middle of park and isn't big enough to relieve traffic!

okay now back to riverside..

Riverside used to be 4 lanes through the park. The Alliance of Neighborhoods that pushed for a park masterplan surrounding the re-envisioned Palmer Auditorium wanted to completely eliminate it or put it in a tunnel! The compromise was to do a road diet in the middle, between the roundabout and the parking lot near Lee Barton Drive. I definitely prefer it as a calmer park road rather than a traffic sewer cut-through between S 1st and Lamar.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by H2O

Riverside used to be 4 lanes through the park. The Alliance of Neighborhoods that pushed for a park masterplan surrounding the re-envisioned Palmer Auditorium wanted to completely eliminate it or put it in a tunnel! The compromise was to do a road diet in the middle, between the roundabout and the parking lot near Lee Barton Drive. I definitely prefer it as a calmer park road rather than a traffic sewer cut-through between S 1st and Lamar.

Right... Also the segment between the Butler parking strip and Lamar is closed currently and has been so for a little while now so it's use is limited to park and trail goers.

[drummer]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

Right... Also the segment between the Butler parking strip and Lamar is closed currently and has been so for a little while now so it's use is limited to park and trail goers.

I noticed that the last time I was down there and forgot to look up what was going on. What are they doing there?

[urbancore]

Originally Posted by drummer

I noticed that the last time I was down there and forgot to look up what was going on. What are they doing there?

The city shut that strip down for the “healthy streets” program to promote getting outside during the pandemic.

[StoOgE]

That part of Riverside could honestly be closed to traffic and have near zero effect on mobility. Moving that section of Riverside to one lane already has made the Riverside/South First/South Congress/Barton Springs entanglement a lot less hectic than it used to be.

I wouldn't mind seeing it closed especially as it effectively runs through a park. I have the same thoughts on Barton Springs through Zilker but I don't think that is possible due to the only possible South of the river connectivity to Mopac.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by StoOgE

That part of Riverside could honestly be closed to traffic and have near zero effect on mobility. Moving that section of Riverside to one lane already has made the Riverside/South First/South Congress/Barton Springs entanglement a lot less hectic than it used to be.

I wouldn't mind seeing it closed especially as it effectively runs through a park. I have the same thoughts on Barton Springs through Zilker but I don't think that is possible due to the only possible South of the river connectivity to Mopac.

The city should build a cool pedestrian bridge over the road for safer connectivity between the great lawn and the playground/Barton Springs pool area. I'm suprised the idea hasn't come up before.

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

The city should build a cool pedestrian bridge over the road for safer connectivity between the great lawn and the playground/Barton Springs pool area. I'm suprised the idea hasn't come up before.

Or a tunnel. I do like this road because I do use it for a good view of downtown, and there is very little traffic on it. But what a great lawn it would be if the road was eliminated in favor of a gravel path lined with sculptures similar to the Hanna Springs Sculpture Garden in Lampasas. Why should rural cities have a monopoly on all fun and interesting stuff. And why doesn't the CoA solicit artists to display their creativity in this area of vastness. A lot of the sculptures in Hanna Springs are for sale and replaced with new art once sold so it does change to keep it interesting. I would spend more time in the Butler Park area if there was more to do than walk my dog and stare at downtown.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by the Genral

Or a tunnel. I do like this road because I do use it for a good view of downtown, and there is very little traffic on it. But what a great lawn it would be if the road was eliminated in favor of a gravel path lined with sculptures similar to the Hanna Springs Sculpture Garden in Lampasas. Why should rural cities have a monopoly on all fun and interesting stuff. And why doesn't the CoA solicit artists to display their creativity in this area of vastness. A lot of the sculptures in Hanna Springs are for sale and replaced with new art once sold so it does change to keep it interesting. I would spend more time in the Butler Park area if there was more to do than walk my dog and stare at downtown.

Great points you've made. You know with the Charles Umlauf sculpture garden right by there already, the city could expand on that by lining different sculptures along Barton Springs. Maybe one day, we can push for Barton Springs to be buried under the park aside from park access points at each end and could create such a pedestrian walkway. What a wonderful and positive way to improve Zilker Park.

[LoneStarMike]

Originally Posted by the Genral

I remember there were renders of the $110 million Long Center that I wish I could find.

Was it these?







Source: Scroll down to the 6th project.

[the Genral]

Originally Posted by LoneStarMike

Was it these?







Source: Scroll down to the 6th project.

I'm not sure. I seem to remember it was all white and a little more grand. But this could be it. My recollection isn't as good anymore. Tonight I forgot the name of one of my dogs. Thanks for finding that. It looks better than the present one.

[H2O]

Originally Posted by LoneStarMike

Was it these?







Source: Scroll down to the 6th project.

Yes, I do believe that was at least one of the iterations of the multi-venue grandiose plan that had to be scaled back on.

[H2O]

Man, it's fun to see high quality physical architectural models again. I used to build a lot of models early in my career back in the 80s before computer renderings became a thing. I guess they are still used in some condo sales centers, but they are becoming somewhat of an anachronism.