Rapid Transit

[TheRitsman]

Yea it is this PDF: https://pub-hamilton.escribemeetings...umentId=125295

I thought they'd taken down the page honestly...

[ScreamingViking]

The 2017 Environmental Project Report Addendum page on the city site looks like it has the most complete (and recent) set of detailed information.

[Beedok]

Oof, that’s quite a lot of stuff getting torn down (including some quite nice buildings)... hopefully the replacements will go up quickly. (And be built to a decent quality.)


[Also, really wish that pdf would have stayed loaded for me. By the end it was spending more time reloading than open. I had to give up just a smidge past Gage.]

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Oof, that’s quite a lot of stuff getting torn down (including some quite nice buildings)... hopefully the replacements will go up quickly. (And be built to a decent quality)

Vrancor can only build so many things at once, we should be safe

Hopefully some density or height requirements are enforced. It'd be a welcome sight to see some 3/5/7 storey buildings replace those empty lots.

[TheHonestMaple]

The Public Record: Council Has to Accept Yes for an Answer: A Prediction on the LRT Vote

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

The Public Record: Council Has to Accept Yes for an Answer: A Prediction on the LRT Vote

I applaud his optimism, and I do think this will pass (unless there's a MAJOR dust-up in a council meeting and vindictiveness sets in).

But I think more of those suburban councillors will be weighing re-election in their decision, and if their count of prospective votes favours the anti-LRT people in their wards, their support will favour that position too. So this could be a skin-of-teeth situation. Perhaps someone with a swing vote will use it to grandstand and show how they "saved the day!" This is something a Merulla or Whitehead could very well do, and do very well.

There could also be horse-trading, however. Hopefully for better transit services as pointed out in that article. It could even lead to the actual birth of other BLAST routes... maybe beginning in the form of peak period express service between Waterdown and the downtown GO stations, along Rymal and Centennial, Mohawk Rd., etc.

[LikeHamilton]

From http://hamiltonlightrail.ca/

On May 13, 2021, the Honourable Catherine McKenna, federal Minister of Infrastructure and Communities and Caroline Mulroney, Ontario Minister of Transportation announced that both governments have signed a deal to invest $3.4 billion in the shovel-ready Hamilton Light Rail Transit (LRT) project. The last hurdle to overcome is Hamilton City council who will need to express support for the plan before it moves forward.

We need to make our voices heard. Click here to tell City Council to support this incredible plan: 


Your continued engagement has made a big impact. Minister McKenna specifically mentioned grassroots support as being a driving factor that led to this new plan.

Each government is contributing 50% of eligible project costs, up to $1.7 billion and the investment is designated for LRT only. This new transit system will offer frequent and reliable service from McMaster University in the west, through downtown Hamilton to Eastgate Square.

We all know the tremendous benefits, but they are worth repeating: LRT will create 7,000 jobs, provide economic uplift, increase affordable housing, cut CO2 emissions and replace aging underground infrastructure. Further, this will be a very important post-pandemic stimulus project to help kick-start our economy.

This is an "all-or-nothing" offer from the federal and provincial governments so the time for delay is over.

Please click the link and send a strong message to Hamilton City Council to support the new Hamilton LRT plan: 

http://hamiltonlightrail.ca/statements/new

Thank you. Please stay safe and healthy.

[ShavedParmesanCheese]

Shout at the council. Shout at your alderman. Shout at everybody. This is a gilded opportunity even they aren't stupid enough to pass up... I hope.

[davidcappi]

Hamilton council is for sure gonna find a way to kill it - much to the benefit of other cities with transit plans awaiting funding.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

Please click the link and send a strong message to Hamilton City Council to support the new Hamilton LRT plan: 

http://hamiltonlightrail.ca/statements/new

Thank you. Please stay safe and healthy.

Also if you check out the contact list it sets up for you, it's impressively long, much more than Hamilton City Council. Very easy way to send a message to all the stakeholders involved.

[craftbeerdad]

Our former mayor isn't running for re-election because of conflicting views with LRT. What a shame.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...tion-1.6029368

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by craftbeerdad

Our former mayor isn't running for re-election because of conflicting views with LRT. What a shame.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...tion-1.6029368

Seems to me a lot of people miss the point of LRT entirely. It is a public transit mode, yes. But the certainty (you can't move a train line), allows developers to build commercial and residential buildings on the line with confidence. It's a net benefit to the tax base, not a drain like Bratina is suggesting. Does he not understand that the LRT, although yes will have large operating costs, will attract businesses and residents to the city that will as a result increase the tax base.

Bratina's view is a simple uneducated one. It's a shame he can't understand the project for what it's worth.

[ScreamingViking]

Bratina is a fool. But he probably figures most of the people who voted for him are against it, so he must toot his old horn and there's no point educating himself.

And now we have editorials, like this one from the Stoney Creek News, pumping up the suburban inequality balloon and quoting the province's cancellation-excuse-oranges-to-apples-numbers...


"But despite the excitement from LRT supporters, it will be local taxpayers, especially those residents in the suburban areas, who are expected to pay the bulk of the project’s cost, while seeing limited benefits to their communities.

During the announcement, politicians attempted to salve opponents’ wounds by talking about LRT as the first phase of establishing the 25-year transportation network called BLAST that would stretch across the city from the Mountain, Ancaster, Dundas and Flamborough. But again, that utopian ideal remains embedded on paper, a project for another set of politicians.

Yet, it rankles that the bus rapid transit option, which would have provided a similar transit option for residents at lower cost than LRT and would have directly benefited a greater area of the Hamilton, has been summarily kicked to the curb.

Questions remain about how a project once estimated to cost $5.5 billion will now cost only $3.4 billion? Where is the rest of the cost for the project coming from? Or, for that matter, how were the project’s costs reduced? Can it attract enough riders to be viable without in additional investment in feeder transit lines?"
https://www.hamiltonnews.com/opinion...de-to-the-end/

[ScreamingViking]

The city finance and planning departments could really help make the case by showing how urban and suburban and rural property taxes are likely to change with the LRT vs. without, based on more than just probable operating cost changes for the transit system. You'd basically be comparing a scenario where more growth is centralized via intensification, with one where suburban expansion dominates, and looking at the infrastructure and servicing costs over a long period.

Of course, just because you have those numbers doesn't mean people will believe them, especially the crowd that argues they subsidize the old city. But it could win over councillors who are rubbing their hands raw about operating costs.

[urban_planner]

I hate the argument that it doesn't benefit the whole city. Guess what, neither do the Linc and Red Hill Valley Parkway but the whole city pays for that.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by urban_planner

I hate the argument that it doesn't benefit the whole city. Guess what, neither do the Linc and Red Hill Valley Parkway but the whole city pays for that.

bingo. Totally agree.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by urban_planner

I hate the argument that it doesn't benefit the whole city. Guess what, neither do the Linc and Red Hill Valley Parkway but the whole city pays for that.

One can argue that there are indirect benefits to the entire city, but we can do that for LRT as well.

[LikeHamilton]

Funny that Quebec City is planning to build a 23 km, $3.3-billion Tramway project that will have 2 sections underground. One of them will be under the old city with 5 stations in that part. They too are touting infrastructure upgrades and replacement that they do not have to do. Quebec has so far promised an $1.8-billion investment. Ottawa is also pitching in $1.2 billion, and Quebec City another $300 million.

The extra 6 km in Hamilton would take our LRT to the Hwy 8 hill in Dundas and Fruitland Road in Stoney Creek.

And we don't have to put anything in!

[Beedok]

I really wonder how they’re getting 5 underground station and those extra kilometres with less money... are the two bridges really more expensive than tunnelling is?

[Innsertnamehere]

Hamilton has a more complex underground infrastructure and it's getting put through the P3 process.. It's not clear exactly what the scope of the $3.4 billion cost is. Is it capital construction costs + financing + land + 30 years of operating and maitenence? Is it just capital? What?

The Quebec cost very well could be just the capital cost, while the Hamilton is construction, design, land acquisition, maintenance for 30 years, financing costs for 30 years, etc.