Is Ottawa the City that Fun Forgot?

[Acajack]

See this article:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Ottawa+...300/story.html

Personally, I've heard this a million times about Ottawa and I call BS on the no-fun image.

Especially when it comes from Canadians when you consider that there is a grand total of only two cities in the entire country (Montreal and St. John's) for which ''fun'' would show up in the top five things that spring to mind about them when you name them.

People from Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary and even Toronto* () complaining that Ottawa isn't fun as if their cities' middle name was P-A-R-T-Y? Gimme a break guys.

*Lots of things to do (compared to Ottawa of course), but a let-your-hair-down party city it is not.

[S-Man]

Ottawa never met a regulation, rule, or bylaw it didn't love, and that's a big part of the problem.

I'm not sure if the presence of the NCC is partly to blame, but put all the regulations on individuals and businesses and the total effect is one of dampening potential.

No adults allowed in parks after 11? Even Major's Hill? Silly - tourists get stopped by NCC officers for ID.

Buskers in the Market - a ton of restrictions heaped on them by Jim 'Regulation' Watson, so much so that it's hard for them to operate. And buskers form a big part (or used to) of the tourist-friendly culture in the market - many used to come from as far away as Europe to practice their craft in Ottawa.

Patios? Look out! I don't know why bars and restaurants on well-travelled strips bother with the expense and hassle.

The city's sphincter is a little too tight.

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

See this article:
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Ottawa+...300/story.html

Personally, I've heard this a million times about Ottawa and I call BS on the no-fun image.

Especially when it comes from Canadians when you consider that there is a grand total of only two cities in the entire country (Montreal and St. John's) for which ''fun'' would show up in the top five things that spring to mind about them when you name them.

People from Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary and even Toronto* () complaining that Ottawa isn't fun as if their cities' middle name was P-A-R-T-Y? Gimme a break guys.

*Lots of things to do (compared to Ottawa of course), but a let-your-hair-down party city it is not.

It's actually quite bad in Ottawa. Having travelled around from Toronto/Montreal to London/Berlin in Europe, Ottawa has absolutely nothing on these cities in terms of evening/night life and general 'events'. Look at it this way, it's the only large city I can think of in the world that doesn't have a major concert venue within walking distance of downtown.... (NAC doesn't count; it only seats 2,500). If you can't even host a decent concert downtown outside of 2 weeks in the summer for Bluesfest, that's a problem.

Just generally there's none of that 'buzz' you get elsewhere. When I'm in Toronto I feel confident walking out my door that I will find something to do no matter what. And there is tons of stuff. I'm a sports fan? Blue Jays, Argos, TFC, Maple Leafs, Raptors; every month of the year there's something. I'm a music fan? There are more venues on one block in Toronto than there are in the entirety of Ottawa. Throw in stuff like a lack of quality architecture. Like how many blank grey cubes do we need in our downtown? That's all that ever seems to get built.

It's a numbers game to some degree, but really Ottawa suffers from the highest per-capita 'nimbyism' and just regulation of everything I've ever seen. There's no flexibility for businesses to take risks or do what they can to spruce up the downtown. Look at Spark's street. That could be something..but it's basically nothing.

Don't get me wrong, it's getting a lot better with TD Place and Lansdowne being built into an alternative downtown scene with more to offer, but still...at this rate we'll never catch up with Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto.

[acottawa]

While Ottawa has many fine qualities (access to nature, several interesting attractions, good facilities for a city of its size), what strikes me is how sterile much of the city is. Almost the entire waterfront consists of some combination of freeway, parking lot, lawn and bike trail - contrast with pretty much every city in the world that has lively sections of waterfront with cafes, pubs, restaurants, buskers, street vendors, etc. or actual parks (manicured grass does not a park make). Khartoum has a riverfront that the NCC would be proud of, other than that Ottawa is pretty much an aberration.

While Ottawa doesn't have many public spaces, ones that do exist (confederation square, roof of the NAC, several little plazas downtown, Sparks street) are barren, windswept and completely devoid of anything. Again, contrast that with other cities where plazas are full of activity. One exception is the courtyards in the market (now the NCC pulled that off is beyond me).

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by acottawa

While Ottawa has many fine qualities (access to nature, several interesting attractions, good facilities for a city of its size), what strikes me is how sterile much of the city is. Almost the entire waterfront consists of some combination of freeway, parking lot, lawn and bike trail - contrast with pretty much every city in the world that has lively sections of waterfront with cafes, pubs, restaurants, buskers, street vendors, etc. or actual parks (manicured grass does not a park make). Khartoum has a riverfront that the NCC would be proud of, other than that Ottawa is pretty much an aberration.

While Ottawa doesn't have many public spaces, ones that do exist (confederation square, roof of the NAC, several little plazas downtown, Sparks street) are barren, windswept and completely devoid of anything. Again, contrast that with other cities where plazas are full of activity. One exception is the courtyards in the market (now the NCC pulled that off is beyond me).

Let's get these thoughts to the NCC who are currently consulting on their Capital Lands Plan and their new Parkways policies. http://www.ncc-ccn.gc.ca/urbanlands

[YOWflier]

Neither I nor anyone I hang out with ever has any difficulty having fun in Ottawa...of the good clean variety, or otherwise.

People who complain about such things must either:

a) have very limited/niche interests,
b) be piggy-backing this 'fashionable' criticism because Ottawa isn't like cities 3-5 times its size,
c) be of the type that isn't happy unless they're miserable about something.

Next thread.

[JeffB]

I think I read in Sports Illustrated, back when the Senators got into the Stanley Cup Final, a quote that called Ottawa "the place fun settled down and had a family."

I think S-Man hit on something when he talked about rules and regulations. Many people in this city seem to think that simply by following the proper process we will make everything wonderful. And if you don't follow it to the letter then you are failing the city. I can't say for certain, but somehow I don't think other cities necessarily feel that way. Rather than looking at problems or opportunities and thinking "What do we want to do and how can we make it work?" the sense I get is Ottawans start looking for the process first before thinking about the end goal.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Ottawa never met a regulation, rule, or bylaw it didn't love, and that's a big part of the problem.

I'm not sure if the presence of the NCC is partly to blame, but put all the regulations on individuals and businesses and the total effect is one of dampening potential.

No adults allowed in parks after 11? Even Major's Hill? Silly - tourists get stopped by NCC officers for ID.

Buskers in the Market - a ton of restrictions heaped on them by Jim 'Regulation' Watson, so much so that it's hard for them to operate. And buskers form a big part (or used to) of the tourist-friendly culture in the market - many used to come from as far away as Europe to practice their craft in Ottawa.

Patios? Look out! I don't know why bars and restaurants on well-travelled strips bother with the expense and hassle.

The city's sphincter is a little too tight.

You've summed it up quite well. I've been to numerous "world class cities" that thrive with buskers, street parking and restaurant patios that grow and shrink hourly based on their use.

Ottawa will never be a world class city. And fun left Ottawa quite some time ago.

[S-Man]

We can still regulate our way to utopia!

I swear in this city, regulations happen for the sake of regulation. Or to fill a regulatory gap that failed to cover something not in need of regulation.

Watson wants to make the city a big deal, which is fine, but he's been behind a lot of new regulations - and is clueless as to how they could impede his own intentions for the city.

I honestly think people like Watson, the NCC, and assorted usual-suspect NIMBYs think anarchy and genocide will break out if people do something spontaneous. The knee-jerk response is to regulate any behaviour into something predictable and SAFE.

I don't know if this is rampant political-correctness, or a bureaucrat mentality, or a "we're-not-them" mindset, or a combination of all three.

Much like removing the buskers and food carts (street meat) from the Market a few years back, the result of this misguided (and seemingly pointless) act was to make the area more STERILE. Can't have people buying $3.50 sausages and throwing money at a professional entertainer who isn't impeding traffic (or something)!

Then we have a city program to cautiously and gradually re-introduce food carts back into the populace, like they're a unicorn or something. I just don't get it.

And don't get me started on $350 fines for smoking in an empty park. In the U.S. they have trash cans and butt cans everywhere, so there are places to put your butt or coffee cup. Not so in Ottawa - you're just supposed to start out not having either.

And that smoking in a park fine, at the time, was more than double the city's fine for speeding through a school zone. Priorities, people!

[bikegypsy]

Canada is the world's most boring country... this is a well recognized fact... at least outside Canada's borders. There's a saying among Korean university English students: "Canada is a boring heaven but Korea is an interesting hell"... And this my friends is so very true.This is why I left Canada 8 years ago... Bo fucking ring. And guest what city i was living in at the time... That's right: Montreal. The most interesting city in Canada. Can be fun but oh crap is it ever overrated; once you've been around the globe Mtl is meh. So, to get back to the subject: the rest of Canada craps on Ottawa because it is the black sheep... It's the common target. The phenomenon is the same as in in a 8th grade classroom. Let's shit on that guy because everyone is already shitting on him and by doing so, no one will shit on me. Thankfully, Ottawans are not full of themselves, which would make them look like Calgarians. In conclusion... its' all dull... dull dull dull... except our sister city 200 kms to the east, which is sometimes less dull.. and maybe St-Johns also. And for those assholes who think Ottawa has crazy regulations, please spend a few months in Montreal; you, will, be, stunned.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Neither I nor anyone I hang out with ever has any difficulty having fun in Ottawa...of the good clean variety, or otherwise.

People who complain about such things must either:

a) have very limited/niche interests,
b) be piggy-backing this 'fashionable' criticism because Ottawa isn't like cities 3-5 times its size,
c) be of the type that isn't happy unless they're miserable about something.

Next thread.

Hey, for once we agree.

The discussion here has focused on totalling up amenities, as opposed to "fun". As I said, there are hardly any cities in Canada that have a reputation for being fun, and this is true even if places like Toronto and Vancouver, and even Calgary and Edmonton (arguable I'd say) have more "total stuff" on the recreational and cultural side than Ottawa does.

As for regulations (also raised here), well the regulations that govern fun stuff are essentially the same from city to city. Even Montreal's parks are "closed" at 11 pm or midnight. Rules on stuff like booze are either federal or provincial and so would be the same in Ottawa and Toronto (and sometimes Montreal) anyway. As for noise even if it's a city responsibility the laws are essentially the same in any given city.

[McKellarDweller]

Sure, Ottawa lacks a lot of the culture, downtown sports and large entertainment venues .. but hey, we've got a fantastic local economy, and a lot of amenities that make it a great place to live.

Outsiders/visitors who whine or complain about Ottawa (or Canada - Haha, what flakes those people must be?!) don't really bother me. Myself, family, and friends no doubt have a higher quality of life here than 99.9+% of them.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

Canada is the world's most boring country... this is a well recognized fact... at least outside Canada's borders. There's a saying among Korean university English students: "Canada is a boring heaven but Korea is an interesting hell"... And this my friends is so very true.This is why I left Canada 8 years ago... Bo fucking ring. And guest what city i was living in at the time... That's right: Montreal. The most interesting city in Canada. Can be fun but oh crap is it ever overrated; once you've been around the globe Mtl is meh. So, to get back to the subject: the rest of Canada craps on Ottawa because it is the black sheep... It's the common target. The phenomenon is the same as in in a 8th grade classroom. Let's shit on that guy because everyone is already shitting on him and by doing so, no one will shit on me. Thankfully, Ottawans are not full of themselves, which would make them look like Calgarians. In conclusion... its' all dull... dull dull dull... except our sister city 200 kms to the east, which is sometimes less dull.. and maybe St-Johns also. And for those assholes who think Ottawa has crazy regulations, please spend a few months in Montreal; you, will, be, stunned.

This. Every single word of this.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Hey, for once we agree.

The topic(s) on which we disagree are well documented, but I think we'd both be surprised at how much we actually do agree on.

[gjhall]

I think the people who are really aggressive about Ottawa being boring (especially among those who still live here) are the type of people who want to live in a city where lots of mainstream things happen that they can read about on Monday on a blog.

Meanwhile, people who want to participate in a lot of BIG mainstream events can move to Toronto or Montreal and be well served.

Those who aren't bothered about that but want to do lots of interesting things in Ottawa just go about and do them. There's lots of cool, low-visibility stuff happening all the time, especially in West Centretown/Chinatown/City Center/east side of Hintonburg area.

As Uhunian said, whatever, next thread please, because there's nothing more boring than talking about boredom.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by S-Man

We can still regulate our way to utopia!

I swear in this city, regulations happen for the sake of regulation. Or to fill a regulatory gap that failed to cover something not in need of regulation.

Watson wants to make the city a big deal, which is fine, but he's been behind a lot of new regulations - and is clueless as to how they could impede his own intentions for the city.

I honestly think people like Watson, the NCC, and assorted usual-suspect NIMBYs think anarchy and genocide will break out if people do something spontaneous. The knee-jerk response is to regulate any behaviour into something predictable and SAFE.

I don't know if this is rampant political-correctness, or a bureaucrat mentality, or a "we're-not-them" mindset, or a combination of all three.

Much like removing the buskers and food carts (street meat) from the Market a few years back, the result of this misguided (and seemingly pointless) act was to make the area more STERILE. Can't have people buying $3.50 sausages and throwing money at a professional entertainer who isn't impeding traffic (or something)!

Then we have a city program to cautiously and gradually re-introduce food carts back into the populace, like they're a unicorn or something. I just don't get it.

And don't get me started on $350 fines for smoking in an empty park. In the U.S. they have trash cans and butt cans everywhere, so there are places to put your butt or coffee cup. Not so in Ottawa - you're just supposed to start out not having either.

And that smoking in a park fine, at the time, was more than double the city's fine for speeding through a school zone. Priorities, people!

I'm not sure this is a fair comment. Yes, the NCC has a bunch of silly regulations and that adds a layer of rules that other cities don't have. But I don't think anyone complaining about Ottawa's regulation has actually lived in Toronto. That is the most over-regulated city I can think of, with it's "No ball playing" signs up and down residential streets, to the hoops any new business needs to go through that are the stuff of legend.

If you are looking for a difference between Toronto and Ottawa, it has nothing to do with "Jim Watson's Regulations". It has everything to do with the fact that Toronto is five times the size, and it has way more people doing their entertaining on expense accounts.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Neither I nor anyone I hang out with ever has any difficulty having fun in Ottawa...of the good clean variety, or otherwise.

People who complain about such things must either:

a) have very limited/niche interests,
b) be piggy-backing this 'fashionable' criticism because Ottawa isn't like cities 3-5 times its size,
c) be of the type that isn't happy unless they're miserable about something.

Next thread.

Yes. Exactly.

[Jim613]

Nice that a recent arrival from Toronto has enough experience with this city to paint it with such a brush

Also, why is it that when 'fun' is mentioned, the only metrics used are bars and nightlife?

Is Ottawa the best place on earth? Nope, but there's more to Ottawa (and life in general) that comsuming alcohol

[Jim613]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

b) be piggy-backing this 'fashionable' criticism because Ottawa isn't like cities 3-5 times its size,

Ha, I've noticed that sentiment in reading some posts here and on other sites (Reddit for example)

It pretty much goes like this...NYC has it, London has it, Paris has it...why doesn't Ottawa have it?

[Jim613]

Originally Posted by phil235

It has everything to do with the fact that Toronto is five times the size, and it has way more people doing their entertaining on expense accounts.

Great point and never really looked at it that way, but it makes sense.

Expense accounts = funny money = big variety of businesses flock to certain cities to cash in on the funny money

Ottawa, on the other hand is a middle-class city with no real mega-rich or mega-poor, so we'll always have middle-class services (which is not always a bad thing)

And don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, just coming a realization I guess


(sorry for the multi-posts everyone)

[YOWflier]

^^ I've had a few exchanges with such people and when they're all done huffing and puffing I respond with "... and yet you're still here. Why?"

That's usually when they go blank because they have no 'fashionable', scripted response to throw out.

Yawn.