What New Yorkers Can Learn From Seoul

[Nouvellecosse]

^ But at the same time, people in the US seem to espouse patriotic and nationalistic views as much or more so than many other countries with lots of flags, national symbolism, etc. Is it just that it's hollow, aesthetic patriotism?

[manchester united]

I like the 24/7 NYC subway. No doubt!

[scruffytraveller]

What do you mean by sacrificing individual happiness that can be seen in public infrastructure? I'm confused xp

[jbermingham123]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

^ But at the same time, people in the US seem to espouse patriotic and nationalistic views as much or more so than many other countries with lots of flags, national symbolism, etc. Is it just that it's hollow, aesthetic patriotism?

Exactly.. American patriotism is political, but its not really nationalistic. In english we routinely misuse the word nation, and in my experience the average person (at least in america) basically thinks that country, nation, and state are synonyms.

In reality, there isnt (and never has been) an American "nation", the way that there is, say, a Dutch nation or a Japanese nation, or a Hungarian nation, or a Navajo nation. In terms of our language and culture (aka human software), America (along with canada, australia, NZ, and most of the british isles at this point) is a politically sovereign part of the english nation, with a substantial african influence in the realms of art/music/food in particular, as well as some not-insignificant amounts of german, italian, and mexican influence generally (fun fact, the classic american "cowboy" is an almost entirely mexican contribution).

In terms of ethnicity (aka human hardware), america is not a nation at all, since almost everyone here is descended from people who are indigenous to elsewhere... and besides, there were hundreds (if not thousands) of different indigenous nations in this territory beforehand anyway.

Nevertheless, there are, in fact, plenty of american nationalists, who mistakenly believe that america is a bona fide nation in the same way that the other examples above are, and who believe that acting in the best interests (or at least in whatever ways they think are in the best interests) of this purported american nation is a just cause. Most of them are so-called "white nationalists," who believe that america is a "white nation" in decline... never mind the fact that white people are indigenous to europe, and that there are at least 100 different nations in europe, shared among 40 ish sovereign states.. so there is not and never has been a "white" nation, any more than there is an african nation. (anyway, i could rant about this forever, and ive already brought us off topic far enough)

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by jbermingham123

Exactly.. American patriotism is political, but its not really nationalistic. In english we routinely misuse the word nation, and in my experience the average person (at least in america) basically thinks that country, nation, and state are synonyms.

In reality, there isnt (and never has been) an American "nation", the way that there is, say, a Dutch nation or a Japanese nation, or a Hungarian nation, or a Navajo nation. In terms of our language and culture (aka human software), America (along with canada, australia, NZ, and most of the british isles at this point) is a politically sovereign part of the english nation, with a substantial african influence in the realms of art/music/food in particular, as well as some not-insignificant amounts of german, italian, and mexican influence generally (fun fact, the classic american "cowboy" is an almost entirely mexican contribution).

In terms of ethnicity (aka human hardware), america is not a nation at all, since almost everyone here is descended from people who are indigenous to elsewhere... and besides, there were hundreds (if not thousands) of different indigenous nations in this territory beforehand anyway.

Nevertheless, there are, in fact, plenty of american nationalists, who mistakenly believe that america is a bona fide nation in the same way that the other examples above are, and who believe that acting in the best interests (or at least in whatever ways they think are in the best interests) of this purported american nation is a just cause. Most of them are so-called "white nationalists," who believe that america is a "white nation" in decline... never mind the fact that white people are indigenous to europe, and that there are at least 100 different nations in europe, shared among 40 ish sovereign states.. so there is not and never has been a "white" nation, any more than there is an african nation. (anyway, i could rant about this forever, and ive already brought us off topic far enough)

actually america is indeed a nation, its just not one that euros will ever admit to understanding — and some americans can’t either for that matter. that’s because the usa nation is non-traditional, its a business arrangement. that is, a mechanism to freely conduct business. so its not a monocultural history. there is no one group of people it was built around.

now one would think that would translate into fantastic public transit. and it did until the auto came along. then big business moved away from that and it mostly morphed into individual car ownership and road building for way too long a time. i dk if the tide is turning back, maybe we will have improved public rail transit again like we had in the old days of the inter-urbans and rail. we will see what uncle joe’s infrastructure bill brings us.