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  #21  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2011, 7:19 PM
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Well then it is a fantastic idea, you are a genius for coming up with this idea for the twin towers and should totally run with it.
I think it is possible to disagree with somebody without insulting him.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2011, 7:24 PM
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I think it is possible to disagree with somebody without insulting him.
Well I disagree with you, but you seem to think this is possible, so you really should do something about it. Have you tried writing letters or calling those involved. You should be calling every congressman to tell them about this and how they should support it for the good of the country...you are just wasting valuable time in here debating with us non-believers when there is a twin tower out there than needs you to help build it!!!
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2011, 7:31 PM
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I don't see anything funny on your sarcasm. It's exactly the bullying I talk about in my signature
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America and New York deserve to have twin towers again! I am boldly resisting the twin towers taboo enforcers - a.k.a. the bullies who harass folks on this forum just because they have different opinions than these bullies do!
Recipe for the best syrup in the world:
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  #24  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2011, 7:35 PM
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I don't see anything funny on your sarcasm. It's exactly the bullying I talk about in my signature
WTF do you want us to say, I will say whatever you want...clearly you love the idea of a twin tower, great for you, I see nothing wrong with that, but why do you need to flood this forum with several threads about the same topic??? I find that to be insulting. Make one thread and stick with it. On top of that, what do you expect to get from all of this? Do you think you can make this twin tower happen? I am not asking that in a sarcastic way or insulting way, I am seriously curious. You have been going on about this one topic nonstop since you came to this thread, are you planning on actually doing anything to making a twin tower happen or are you going to continue making up these fantasy ideas about why it would be possible to do when it will never happen?

Seriously, what do you hope will come from all of this???
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2011, 7:39 PM
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1, Always I had only one topic at a certain time about my idea. The other topics are closed because of the intense flaming that many forumers did towards me.

2, Yes, I plan to do something for it, I plan to make a petition. That's about all I can do about it.
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America and New York deserve to have twin towers again! I am boldly resisting the twin towers taboo enforcers - a.k.a. the bullies who harass folks on this forum just because they have different opinions than these bullies do!
Recipe for the best syrup in the world:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=191318
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2011, 7:41 PM
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1, Always I had only one topic at a certain time about my idea. The other topics are closed because of the intense flaming that many forumers did towards me.

2, Yes, I plan to do something for it, I plan to make a petition. That's about all I can do about it.
Then go make your petition, you are just wasting time posting on this thread because none of us think it is possible...we are not your audience to making this happen...hell, go start a forum and petition that is all about this idea and I am sure you will find thousands of people online that love this idea of a twin tower....you are just not going to find it on this site, which is something you should of learned by now.
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2011, 7:49 PM
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I only wanted to learn here if it is possible or not. That's all. I think that is a wise move to make before starting the petition. Please tell me your reasons why you think it is not possible.
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America and New York deserve to have twin towers again! I am boldly resisting the twin towers taboo enforcers - a.k.a. the bullies who harass folks on this forum just because they have different opinions than these bullies do!
Recipe for the best syrup in the world:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=191318
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2011, 8:32 PM
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I only wanted to learn here if it is possible or not. That's all. I think that is a wise move to make before starting the petition. Please tell me your reasons why you think it is not possible.
Please tell me your reasons why you think it is possible?

Why should we have to debunk every one of your ideas? I went to architecture school and never once was I able to tell my professor to tell me why something isn't possible, I constantly had to prove why it could be possible.


But the biggest reason why it is not possible, is who is going to build it? Buildings are not free and someone has to pay for it and someone has to lease the space, if those two factors are missing then the building is not going to happen.

Portland currently has a hole in the ground in the middle of downtown that should of been a tower that should of been completed by now, but instead it is just a hole. I would love to see that tower under construction again, but no amount of wishing is going to make that happen until someone wishes to lease enough space in the building to get the developer to be able to take out a loan to cover the cost of it....this same theory applies to the WTC...until you can prove to me that someone is going to lease that space to afford the developer to get the loan for it, it's not going to happen.

Besides you shouldn't be looking to an online forum to see if your idea (that is nothing more than a cut and paste job, not trying to insult, just pointing out an obvious fact), you should be looking to actual education in learning how buildings stand, how projects like these actually get built, the amount of people that are actually involved in them. There is no such thing as one people involved with a project this size, it requires teams of people making decisions.
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2011, 9:33 PM
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Why it could be built? Because there are no major instalations beneath my latest proposed locations and the streets wouldn't have to be closed, just rerouted.

Who would pay for it? A developer. Who would have offices in there? Dunno, but I know that much of it must be pre-rented in order to get a loan for it. And as I said many times before, this could only be possible if the other towers would rent well and if there would still be demand for offices in lower Manhattan.
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America and New York deserve to have twin towers again! I am boldly resisting the twin towers taboo enforcers - a.k.a. the bullies who harass folks on this forum just because they have different opinions than these bullies do!
Recipe for the best syrup in the world:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=191318
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2011, 9:35 PM
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It's the same thing in Chicago with the Chicago Spire. It has been nothing more then a big hole since 2009, of what was supposed to have had been a 2,000 foot tall skyscraper.
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2011, 9:40 PM
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You can't reroute the West Side Highway. Seriously what makes you think you can move a 6 lane highway? Seriously be real. What would make you think that someone would lease room? Larry isn't having a easy time looking for tenants for the current buildings at the World Trade Center let alone a twin. If he can't find any tenants for Two or Three World Trade Center they would never be built, and lets not forget the fact that looking for tenants isn't as easy as pie. If it was the world would be perfect.
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2011, 10:16 PM
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I never said that looking for tenants is easy. I merely said that if he would find tenants, all of this might be possible. Also I don't see any problem about rerouting a small part of the street. it would be just a very small part, 300 feet would be enough.
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America and New York deserve to have twin towers again! I am boldly resisting the twin towers taboo enforcers - a.k.a. the bullies who harass folks on this forum just because they have different opinions than these bullies do!
Recipe for the best syrup in the world:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=191318
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2011, 11:36 PM
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I never said that looking for tenants is easy. I merely said that if he would find tenants, all of this might be possible. Also I don't see any problem about rerouting a small part of the street. it would be just a very small part, 300 feet would be enough.
Well then, there you go, there is the answer you are looking for. All of this might be possible. So now what are you gonna do about? Should we continue with this who thing that doesn't really mean anything or are you gonna do something constructive about it.

It seems like you are getting a kick out of beating a dead horse, unless you have some masterplan you are currently working on to go along with all of this.

So there is your answer, it is all possible, but the question is is it going to actually ever happen?? Majority of us believe that answer is a "no" which is why this has been a long going beating of a dead horse.
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2011, 12:42 AM
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Okay, seeing that I now know a little bit about you, which by that I mostly mean age. When 9/11 you were barely a teenager and during your teen years this topic of what should be built at the WTC went on. Now you are starting to get to that age that you are understanding on what is going on around you, yet don't fully understand what goes into what makes things happen, you have basically arrived at this conversation several years late.

Like you, there are plenty of people out there that want to see the twin towers back, to forget about that day and the people that died there, but that can't happen, and like anything in the business world, these buildings are different and built during a different time than the original ones. And I understand where you are coming from, I remember being your age and wishing my hometown wouldn't of leveled 17 acres of its downtown back in the 50s long before I was born to replace all those turn of the century buildings into a large parking lot in the name of progress.

I remember looking at historical photo books and dreaming of what it would be like if the city never tore those buildings down and what could be done to recreate what was lost, but instead the city worked with a developer that built a massive, semi-suburban mall on those acres that basically cut off the downtown from the rest of the city and eliminated the urban street grid.

Now when I was your age I would draw maps and things to think about how the mall could be cut up and the street grid that was lost could be recreated. Will this ever happen? Doubtful, it would require a lot of money and a huge risk to take to make it happen for everyone involved...and honestly a risk most developers are not willing to take. Could it happen? Sure, there have been times when old malls have been turned into urban projects, but the chances of this happening with this mall and my hometown creating that urban center it lost is basically zero chance because even if anything like this were to happen, those buildings that were torn down are completely lost, as well as that craftsmanship that went into making them.

So while I understand you are late to this conversation and wish it wasn't already set in stone, but it is and what is planned to be built there is what is going to be built there. If you are seriously taking a real interest in this, you should look into college degrees that would point you in this direction of being involved with buildings and development. But if this is nothing more than a passing curiosity for you that you have no real interest in fully pursuing, then I suggest you do what most people who enjoy architecture is by enjoying what has been built and what is being built and what architects are proposing and leave the designing to those who have a real interest in designing.

Also another important factor that will serve you well in life, you are a 21 yr old, no one in the world wants to listen to a 21yr old who thinks they know what they are talking about. It is better for you to assume you don't know what you are talking about and always be willing to learn from those that do know this kind of information rather than trying to make them have to prove to you when something is wrong.
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2011, 2:55 AM
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Listen Kanto. I am going to explain my story one last time. I am a New Yorker. I was born on September 5th 1993 on Manhattan Island (I study architecture in my architecture classes so I do know what I am talking about). I was born, and raised as a young New Yorker underneath the mighty shadows of the original World Trade Center Towers before 9/11. I saw them everywhere. They had a presence that no other building in the history of New York City will ever have. Although they weren't the pretties buildings on the block they were unique. They held Manhattan together. I have pictures which features them in the background. There are night pictures, day pictures, and pictures in between. Yet although I loved them since I was young I had no idea of their impending doom, and their fate.

On September 11th 2001 I was in School at the time the planes impacted the North Tower. I was only 8 years old. I didn't realize what was going on. All I saw was the World Trade Center standing there in front my face from my school window looking all normal with the sun hitting it, and the next thing the North Tower was on fire with smoke filling the clear blue sky. The school was evacuated, and my grandfather now deceased picked me up from school. Of course I had no knowledge of what was going on, and I just kept asking questions. My brother faced the worse part of it. He helped my grandmother sweep up paper out on the driveway. The paper blew in from the World Trade Center along with the smoke. There was blood on the paper, and my family had to clean it up. Not just that we saw the entire thing on TV. Everyone in my family saw it live including the plane impacting the South Tower, and the collapse of both buildings on TV.

Afterwards my family never talked much about it. We lost family members that witnessed the event, and we had people that were born that never saw the event, but for the people like me that witnessed the event we don't talk about it. It left a hole in the skyline with smoke pouring out for months afterwards. In my family we had members that were traumatized by 9/11. Me and my brother had nightmares for months afterwards, but for many people this would answer your question. Many people I know were traumatized by what happened, and we still don't talk much about it. It isn't something even I take lightly on, and I only talk about it when I teach my little cousins about the history of the World Trade Center. I don't think most of the people I know would like to see the two buildings back in the skyline. It would only evoke the pain and the suffering everyone that had suffered that day. Even if you build it elsewhere in New York it would create painful memories, but again we all have memories of the Twins and the Twins still stand in every New Yorkers heart. We give those buildings a special treatment, and had put them in an area where the terrorist can never destroy. In our hearts, but if you want to build them elsewhere in NYC it won't be a bad idea. Just treat the buildings with respect as we lost a lot of special people that day.
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2011, 5:14 AM
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I find it amusing that anyone thinks moving a surface street is a large percentage of the problem. It's a political and cost issue but very simple. The bigger problems are what's below the current street, what's on and under the site of the new tower, the fact that the site already has a long term plan figured out years ago, and the fact that designing and financing the new tower would take a very long time even if pre-leasing wasn't an issue, which it would be unless there was a massive subsidy, which there wouldn't.
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2011, 10:25 AM
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Well, I too first didn't understand what has happened there. I was 11, nearly 12 at 9/11 and things like that were just too complicated for me at that time. Later when I grew up, I begun to understand the horror of that day. I don't want to ever forget that day, because I see it as my duty, to honor the people killed there, to remember this tragedy for the rest of my life. I think it should be remembered and taught in schools just as WW2 is, because in my opinion the holocaust and 9/11 are really the same, insane killing of innocent people. It is hard to imagine that somebody could be that insane and that evil, to do such a thing.

However, one thing that I remember the most, are the people, who helped other people that day and who became heroes. These people are, for many years now, my inspiration, on how to live my life. I feel that the current memorial, as it is now planned, is insufficient to remember 9/11 and the heroes of 9/11. That's one of the reasons why I proposed my twin, because I want the new twins to be a tribute to the 9/11 heroes. My inspiration on how this should be done came from the pyramids. For example, in the underground levels of my proposed twin I would make a burial chamber, with graves of unidentified 9/11 victims and in the concrete base I would make a hall of heroes. This hall would be full of statues and paintings about the 9/11 firefighters and civillian heroes as well.

As to me wanting to disprove a plan before I dump it, I see nothing wrong with that. I just want to be sure that it's not possible before I dump it. This isn't meant as disrespect, it's only meant as knowledge gathering.
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America and New York deserve to have twin towers again! I am boldly resisting the twin towers taboo enforcers - a.k.a. the bullies who harass folks on this forum just because they have different opinions than these bullies do!
Recipe for the best syrup in the world:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=191318
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2011, 4:18 PM
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But the point that we are all trying to make is that what you see going up is what is going to happen, the plan isn't going to change now, it is a done deal that has already been set in motion.

I agree with you, I am not fully sold on the memorial myself, and truth be told, memorials are probably the hardest thing to get right because there is never a clear answer for the correct way of doing one, but there is always so many ways to mess one up. But at this stage, this is what is going to be built whether you like it or not.

And again, pointing out your age, all of this topic that you are talking about with wanting a twin tower happened years ago, you seriously showed up late to that party, and you can wish and dream all you want about a twin tower being built, but it is never going to happen at the WTC site...end of story. I am not telling you that because I don't want it, I am telling you that because it is the truth. There are some things in life that will never come back.

My hometown isn't going to get back that 17 acres of buildings they destroyed downtown, and NYC isn't getting back the WTC twin towers. You can kick and scream and create all the possible images you want, but nothing you do will ever change what is going on there right now. I am sorry if this crushes any of your hopes, and I am sure you don't want to believe a word I am telling, and I am sure it will take you a few more years of learning before you realize that I am right about this, but that is just a fact of life.

So feel free to continue with this dream of yours, but nothing you do is going to change what is currently in motion.
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2011, 8:58 PM
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But I don't plan on changing anything that is in motion. My plan only involves adding something to it, not destroying something. That is why I think it is possible, because the whole WTC can be built, as it is currently planned, and there will still be empty space to build on, without compromising anything underground except a few parking spots and a bit of the museum.

Why I think this can be done? There is still some space underground to compensate the parking, and since I would turn part of my proposed twin into a memorial, some things from the museum could go in there.
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America and New York deserve to have twin towers again! I am boldly resisting the twin towers taboo enforcers - a.k.a. the bullies who harass folks on this forum just because they have different opinions than these bullies do!
Recipe for the best syrup in the world:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=191318
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2011, 9:03 PM
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But I don't plan on changing anything that is in motion. My plan only involves adding something to it, not destroying something. That is why I think it is possible, because the whole WTC can be built, as it is currently planned, and there will still be empty space to build on, without compromising anything underground except a few parking spots and a bit of the museum.

Why I think this can be done? There is still some space underground to compensate the parking, and since I would turn part of my proposed twin into a memorial, some things from the museum could go in there.
That is the problem with what you keep trying to propose...everything within the WTC site is already spoken for, even if you think it is open space, it is already spoken for. Nothing in that plan is going to change from here on out, what you see is what you are going to get. What is frustrating everyone here is that it seems like you don't get that.
     
     
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