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  #14581  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2020, 6:23 PM
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A lot of plans seem to assume there's a big jump in quality between buses (wheels) and rail-based service, but having a dedicated ROW is more important. I agree about these "connections" that are 2 blocks apart. Maybe it doesn't matter so much for a tourist exploring the city but for a commuter spending an extra 5 minutes at a transfer point each way every day adds up.

If anything the gap between buses and trams might shrink in the future since battery-powered buses are becoming common and prospects for automation are pretty similar across the two types of transit.
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  #14582  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2020, 6:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scryer View Post
That is actually my biggest gripe when it comes to the surface option. It is a completely missed opportunity to seamlessly connect with some Confederation stations underground.

The loop makes sense to me from looking at most of the routing but a piece of transit infrastructure of this magnitude, in our modern times, needs to seamlessly connect to other major transit stations. The Wellington surface option is very reminiscent of Calgary's downtown corridor - and not in a good way! How many LRT mistakes do we need to make before we learn the lesson that street integrated LRT does not equal to rapid transit? Not only that but putting this LRT underground along Sparks street to run congruently with the Confederation line looks like it would capture more transit users since it's deeper within downtown Ottawa (therefore appealing to a more diverse amount of users). I just think that the Sparks street alignment would capture slightly more transit users and be perceived less as a tourist line. I could be wrong because I have never lived in Ottawa (or visited, sorry; don't take away my citizenship ).

And would the loop serve as a natural extension from the Gatineau tram? Because to me that would make sense instead of having a separate line operating in the loop independent of the Gatineau tram. Maybe I misunderstood the idea ?
I also thought there was a bit of ambiguity there, but yes, it seems the loop would be part of the Gatineau tram network.

The majority of Gatineau riders heading to Ottawa work downtown, so STO-Confederation transfers would be relatively low, but many Ottawa residents would transfer to the tram for the "last mile" to Hull.

Sparks (or in the case of the Confederation, Queen) are more central to downtown, but some bring up the point that walking an extra block or two might be faster than going down a few flights of stairs to an underground transit line. I personally think that when you travel a certain distance, the extra time to go underground doesn't matter. In the case of the people transferring, a concourse to concourse connection is far better than heading up five floors above ground and walking two blocks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
A lot of plans seem to assume there's a big jump in quality between buses (wheels) and rail-based service, but having a dedicated ROW is more important. I agree about these "connections" that are 2 blocks apart. Maybe it doesn't matter so much for a tourist exploring the city but for a commuter spending an extra 5 minutes at a transfer point each way every day adds up.

If anything the gap between buses and trams might shrink in the future since battery-powered buses are becoming common and prospects for automation are pretty similar across the two types of transit.
I agree with this and we are having a bit of a debate on the Ottawa forum about the benefits of proposed Confederation Line extensions to Kanata, and especially Barrhaven which would be far more expensive than almost any similar project in Canada, including Confed Stage 1, yet have a relatively low, commuter focused ridership.

In the case of the tram loop, the volume of passengers justifies a rail line, be it surface trams or a subway. (though transit patterns might change significantly post-Covid).

Sideline, the Gatineau tramway will run surface on the Quebec side, similar to Ion or the Valley line, so the benefits of a downtown tunnel in Ottawa would not be complete.

To be clear, I am 100% in favour of the loop however, I'm still undecided on the Sparks tunnel vs Wellington tram. Both have benefits and drawbacks.
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  #14583  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2020, 7:14 PM
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I've told you all before that street-running trams can be very efficient, providing swift and very regular service, if they're well designed. Talking yourselves into paying more for less transit only gets you less transit.

There are a lot of tram systems that tunnel underground in city centres. Hell, even Krakow does it. It's not that exciting, and the utility isn't as great as you'd imagine. Trams running through a slow handful of blocks isn't the end of the world.


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Originally Posted by swimmer_spe View Post
The loop makes sense, but if you really want to make it work well, it should cross Line 1. Maybe the loop runs under Laurier, or further south.
Now that's something I could get behind. It would be expensive, but if we're talking about maximizing service, it could dip all the way down to Somerset. It wouldn't need to be tunneled either to capture the benefits of a bigger loop, and the bigger loop also presents more opportunities for more spur lines.

Of course, if you're going all in on tram service in central Ottawa, the Old EL Paso kid said it best: Why not both?
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  #14584  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2020, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by biguc View Post
Trams running through a slow handful of blocks isn't the end of the world.
This is true and you can only really figure out what's worthwhile by looking studying the costs and net improvement in service levels and in particular travel times (though better comfort, aesthetics, environmental impact, etc. matter too).

I didn't see much or any of that on the website that was linked. It is possible I missed it. It seemed high level and aimed at making the system look cool.
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  #14585  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2020, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
This is true and you can only really figure out what's worthwhile by looking studying the costs and net improvement in service levels and in particular travel times (though better comfort, aesthetics, environmental impact, etc. matter too).

I didn't see much or any of that on the website that was linked. It is possible I missed it. It seemed high level and aimed at making the system look cool.
The loop is really just an idea with nice renderings at this point. STO is conducting its own studies for their project that, at the moment, should stop at Elgin (if Wellington surface is chosen) or Metcafle (if Sparks tunnel is chosen) with the possibility of a complete loop far into the future.

The Supporters of the Loop are private individuals, many of influence (former politicians, heads of board of trades, former high ranking public servants and owners of development companies) bringing the idea back on the table and asking Governments to conduct the necessary studies.
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  #14586  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2020, 2:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
The loop is really just an idea with nice renderings at this point. STO is conducting its own studies for their project that, at the moment, should stop at Elgin (if Wellington surface is chosen) or Metcafle (if Sparks tunnel is chosen) with the possibility of a complete loop far into the future.

The Supporters of the Loop are private individuals, many of influence (former politicians, heads of board of trades, former high ranking public servants and owners of development companies) bringing the idea back on the table and asking Governments to conduct the necessary studies.
The problem we face in this country is we waste money on studies with the general outcome of needed, but never built. Maybe we need to only do studies if we will put the money forward for it.
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  #14587  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 5:01 PM
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City names preferred proponent for Valley Line West LRT construction



October 30, 2020


The City of Edmonton has selected its preferred proponent to design, build and partially finance the 14-kilometre Valley Line West LRT project.

The preferred proponent is Marigold Infrastructure Partners, consisting of team members Colas, Parsons, Standard General, Francl Architecture, Fast & Epp and Stantec.

Marigold Infrastructure Partners and the City will now enter into final discussions, with the contract expected to be finalized by the end of 2020. Construction is scheduled to begin in 2021 and is anticipated to take about five to six years to complete.

“We’d like to thank each of our proponent teams for participating in our procurement. We’re confident our rigorous competitive process has culminated in the selection of a strong team to deliver the Valley Line West LRT at good value for Edmontonians,” said Brad Smid, Valley Line Director.

The City launched its Valley Line West procurement process in January 2020 and released its proponent shortlist in March. When the COVID-19 pandemic hit, the team quickly adapted and shifted the process online. Proponents first provided technical submissions, including draft designs and plans, to demonstrate their ability to meet the City’s rigorous technical requirements. All teams passed this first hurdle and were invited to submit a financial proposal. The City evaluated these proposals to make sure they met our financial requirements, and the team with the lowest financial bid was selected as the preferred proponent.

“Marigold Infrastructure Partners is very excited to work with the City of Edmonton on the Valley Line West LRT. As partners of MIP, Colas—whose subsidiary Standard General has delivered projects in Edmonton since 1969, and Parsons—building on their decades-long legacy of delivering P3 projects in Alberta, are proud to help the City build Edmonton and meet its long-term strategic goals for the city,” said Xavier Fenaux, with Colas Canada.

As the City of Edmonton plans its recovery from the COVID-19 pandemic, the Valley Line West LRT construction project will play a key role in contributing to that recovery in the city and region. An economic assessment of the project estimates that construction will generate $760 million in wages in Alberta and another $209 million throughout the country. It is expected to generate 8,800 jobs in the province and 2,700 across Canada.

The $2.6-billion Valley Line West project has funding commitments from the Province of Alberta and Government of Canada. It is the second phase of the Valley Line, a 27-kilometre low-floor urban style LRT line that will provide seamless connection between Mill Woods and Lewis Farms once complete. The first phase of the project, Valley Line Southeast, is currently under construction.


For more information:
edmonton.ca/valleylinewest


Media contact:
Mariam Ibrahim
Communications Advisor
Communications and Engagement
780-991-7874
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  #14588  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2020, 1:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldrsx View Post
City names preferred proponent for Valley Line West LRT construction



October 30, 2020


The City of Edmonton has selected its preferred proponent to design, build and partially finance the 14-kilometre Valley Line West LRT project.

The preferred proponent is Marigold Infrastructure Partners, consisting of team members Colas, Parsons, Standard General, Francl Architecture, Fast & Epp and Stantec.

Marigold Infrastructure Partners and the City will now enter into final discussions, with the contract expected to be finalized by the end of 2020. Construction is scheduled to begin in 2021 and is anticipated to take about five to six years to complete.

“We’d like to thank each of our proponent teams for participating in our procurement. We’re confident our rigorous competitive process has culminated in the selection of a strong team to deliver the Valley Line West LRT at good value for Edmontonians,” said Brad Smid, Valley Line Director.

The City launched its Valley Line West procurement process in January 2020 and released its proponent shortlist in March. When the COVID-19 pandemic hit, the team quickly adapted and shifted the process online. Proponents first provided technical submissions, including draft designs and plans, to demonstrate their ability to meet the City’s rigorous technical requirements. All teams passed this first hurdle and were invited to submit a financial proposal. The City evaluated these proposals to make sure they met our financial requirements, and the team with the lowest financial bid was selected as the preferred proponent.

“Marigold Infrastructure Partners is very excited to work with the City of Edmonton on the Valley Line West LRT. As partners of MIP, Colas—whose subsidiary Standard General has delivered projects in Edmonton since 1969, and Parsons—building on their decades-long legacy of delivering P3 projects in Alberta, are proud to help the City build Edmonton and meet its long-term strategic goals for the city,” said Xavier Fenaux, with Colas Canada.

As the City of Edmonton plans its recovery from the COVID-19 pandemic, the Valley Line West LRT construction project will play a key role in contributing to that recovery in the city and region. An economic assessment of the project estimates that construction will generate $760 million in wages in Alberta and another $209 million throughout the country. It is expected to generate 8,800 jobs in the province and 2,700 across Canada.

The $2.6-billion Valley Line West project has funding commitments from the Province of Alberta and Government of Canada. It is the second phase of the Valley Line, a 27-kilometre low-floor urban style LRT line that will provide seamless connection between Mill Woods and Lewis Farms once complete. The first phase of the project, Valley Line Southeast, is currently under construction.


For more information:
edmonton.ca/valleylinewest


Media contact:
Mariam Ibrahim
Communications Advisor
Communications and Engagement
780-991-7874

So in other words, 2029... At the earliest...
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  #14589  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2020, 1:05 PM
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Whenever a contract is awarded in Ottawa for a transit line (Confederation Line Stage 1 and Stage 2, Trillium Stage 2), it comes with station renderings. It seems that in the west, at least Vancouver's Broadway extension and Edmonton's Valley Line Stages 1 and 2, the winning bid does not come with new renderings (or aren't released). Is it because precise locations and designed are determined before the RFQ?
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  #14590  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2020, 4:58 PM
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The City of Edmonton has renderings and conceptual plans, but depending on the procurement method ie. P3, CM, DB/Op, Lump sum etc. you don't want to release too much prior to award and then working with the successful group to create those in a more accurate and meaningful way.
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  #14591  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2020, 1:29 PM
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Expanding automated vehicle testing in Ottawa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
Self-driving shuttle gearing up for historic road test at Tunney's Pasture

By: David Sali, OBJ
Published: Nov 2, 2020 4:56pm EST




A self-driving shuttle van is set to hit the road at Tunney’s Pasture in a first-of-its-kind trial that local industry officials hope will cement Ottawa’s position as a global R&D hotbed for autonomous vehicle technology.

The $500,000 pilot project, the first under the Ontario Automated Vehicle Testing Program, will run from Nov. 3-13. It will see a six-person electric vehicle built by European firm EasyMile travel a four-stop, 1.5-kilometre loop around the Tunney’s Pasture campus at speeds of up to 15 kilometers per hour.

The shuttle will travel a pre-programmed route using sensors and artificial intelligence software to keep track of its surroundings and detect obstacles. An operator will be on board at all times to take control of the vehicle if necessary.

While Invest Ottawa and its technology partners have previously run trials of automated shuttles on a custom-designed route at the Area X.O test facility in the city’s south end, the new project will put the autonomous vehicle through its paces in a more complicated real-world setting.

Invest Ottawa CEO Michael Tremblay said the trial will allow the project’s backers to see just how well the technology holds up under various weather conditions ​– for example, whether near-freezing temperatures shorten battery life.

The trial will also showcase technology from a pair of local startups.



Smart-sensor manufacturer SmartCone’s AutoGuardian system will send out alerts warning pedestrians and other vehicles that the shuttle is approaching and remind passengers to don masks before boarding.

“It’s really great to be able to have that capability to prep us for larger deployments,” said AutoGuardian CEO Tenille Houston.

Meanwhile, members of the general public will be able to book rides on the shuttle through Ottawa-based startup RideShark’s platform.

Up to five people who live in the same household can register for a limited number of pre-scheduled rides on a first-come, first-served basis. Employees working at the Tunney’s Pasture complex can also hop on the shuttle without a reservation.

Tremblay said Invest Ottawa aims to run up to eight similar pilots annually on public roads over the next couple of years as the agency and its partners refine technologies used to make self-driving cars safer and more efficient.

“We certainly do hope to see many more,” he said.

Noting that the autonomous vehicles industry is expected to be worth up to $60 billion globally by 2030, Tremblay said Ottawa ​– with its wealth of embedded software and cybersecurity know-how ​– is poised to be a major player in the sector. He said more than 100 organizations in the capital region are already involved in the industry, adding he expects that number to just keep rising.

“The goal is to build up more and more capability locally with our domestic entrepreneur base and continue to attract investment from foreign investors into our region,” he said. “If you want to go after a $60-billion market, that’s one way to go after it.”

The news of the historic shuttle trial comes just weeks after the federal government announced it was investing $7 million into new technology at Area X.O, formerly known as the L5 track.

In addition, private-sector partners such as Accenture, BlackBerry QNX, Ericsson, Microsoft and Nokia as well as the City of Ottawa will contribute up to $10 million in equipment and services at the 16-kilometre gated facility on Woodroffe Avenue.

Invest Ottawa, which manages the facility, said the investment of cash and material will create as many as 200 new jobs and make the nation’s capital a world leader in the development of self-driving vehicle technology.

https://www.obj.ca/article/techopia/...unneys-pasture
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  #14592  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2020, 5:19 PM
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The BAPE has gone against the Québec City streetcar proposal, stating that a light metro and a broader suburban proposal were not studied seriously.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle...uebec-labeaume
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  #14593  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2020, 6:46 PM
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Originally Posted by p_xavier View Post
The BAPE has gone against the Québec City streetcar proposal, stating that a light metro and a broader suburban proposal were not studied seriously.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle...uebec-labeaume
I feel like it will likely be pushed-through nonetheless. Both the City and the Province seems sold on the project and we all know transit is more political than logical.
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  #14594  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2020, 7:17 PM
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I feel like it will likely be pushed-through nonetheless. Both the City and the Province seems sold on the project and we all know transit is more political than logical.
Definitely not the province. They didn't approved the latest changes because it removed services to the suburbs, aka CAQ's voters.
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  #14595  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2020, 7:26 PM
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Originally Posted by p_xavier View Post
Definitely not the province. They didn't approved the latest changes because it removed services to the suburbs, aka CAQ's voters.
I was not aware of that latest update (was that the removal of the TramBus?)
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  #14596  
Old Posted Nov 9, 2020, 7:38 PM
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I was not aware of that latest update (was that the removal of the TramBus?)
Yes. Here is an English news report.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7451452/q...ape-rejection/

I read the BAPE document during lunch and the main issue is really the choice of thechnology and the route chosen.

https://sttramwaybapegouvqcca.blob.c...u%C3%A9bec.pdf
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  #14597  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2020, 12:11 AM
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The never ending saga continues...

Premier Doug Ford calls Hamilton LRT a 'good project'
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...nsit-1.5799640

Premier Doug Ford says he's been working closely with Mayor Fred Eisenberger on light-rail transit (LRT) in Hamilton, and called it a "good project" in a media briefing on Thursday.

"The ideal situation is do what the mayor wants to do," Ford said in an appearance at Heddle Shipyards. "If everyone agrees, then the LRT."

He said he could not give a 100 per cent direct answer to the question of whether the province would endorse LRT or bus rapid transit.

The two levels of governments have been talking about sharing the cost, and Ford reiterated that the project would need support from the federal government to proceed. The province, he said, is bringing $1 billion to the table.

That billion dollars was committed in 2015 by the then-liberal provincial government, led by Kathleen Wynne.

Ford said it's critical that everyone, including the city council, cooperate.

"Everyone's going to be pitching in," he said. "I think it's a good project, we just have to get moving on."

Meanwhile, federal Infrastructure Minister Catherine McKenna, a Hamilton native, said in October that Ottawa is waiting for more information from the province.

McKenna said she's been in regular contact with Ontario Transportation Minister Caroline Mulroney about LRT, as well as Hamilton businesses. But she wants more information.

"I look forward to receiving a full proposal for this project so that we can finally move things forward," she said.

Eisenberger has said that the province also wants to look at including the private sector in the LRT's mix of funding. In October, Eisenberger said he was "more hopeful" than he had been in the past couple of years.

Last December, Transportation Minister Caroline Mulroney cancelled the project, saying it would cost too much. Months later her task force decided to still spend the earmarked $1 billion on LRT or bus rapid transit system.

The province priced the LRT at around $5 billion, but other reports — one backed by the Laborers' International Union of North America (LiUNA), and one by Turner and Townsend — have since suggested lower costs.

Metrolinx said it would start demolishing 21 buildings along the LRT corridor in November.
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  #14598  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2020, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
"The ideal situation is do what the mayor wants to do," Ford said in an appearance at Heddle Shipyards. "If everyone agrees, then the LRT."

Ford said it's critical that everyone, including the city council, cooperate.
EVERYONE DID AGREE!!! EVERYONE WAS COOPERATING!!! He's the one who CANCELED THE PORJECT. It will probably cost double for the same dam project because of the delay. Ford and Mulroney should be billed for the extra cost!
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  #14599  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2020, 4:23 AM
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Whatevs. The Tories caving on this is good news. Whatever they have to say to save face is fine. Better than completely screwing up Hamilton's plans or them disposing off all the appropriated property before it is built.
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  #14600  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2020, 8:17 AM
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Looking through wikipedia at proposed transit projects in Ontario, it's just a mess of Ford interference. It seems like almost every project has had a Ford cancel it, then decide it's actually necessary, but then interfere further and end up making a more expensive, less useful piece of infrastructure with a ten year development setback. Eglington West is particularly hilarious: cancel it, then don't, but scrap the existing plan in favour of a more expensive line with less stops and less ridership, but service to car rentals near the airport. It's like they don't understand what transit is for. At least they live up to their name.
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