Street Closures

[shazapple]

There have been a couple articles recently regarding street closures. The differing attitudes area to area are interesting.

Moncton: Businesses balk at closing Moncton's Main Street to cars
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...576387?cmp=rss

Fredericton:"Wider sidewalk patios and pop up cafes on public green spaces are part of Fredericton plans this summer... city hall isn't considering any street or lane closures to give restaurants extra room."
https://tj.news/story/101262704?ref=summary

Fredericton:Fredericton to introduce more open-air seating and entertainment
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...mmer-1.5576207

Halifax: Halifax Restaurants Call For Summer Street Closures.
https://huddle.today/halifax-restaur...l-they-happen/

I think this is an ideal time to try lane closures, changing streets to one way, etc. Fredericton's idea is nice but it's not licensed so I think that will affect it's usage. Traffic in downtown Fredericton is way down and they could easily reduce Queen to one travel lane, one parking lane, and an expanded sidewalk.

[MonctonRad]

Summer street closures are a great idea, where appropriate.

The pedestrian mall on Richmond Street in Charlottetown next to the Confederation Centre is fabulous in the summertime. The street is lined with cafes and boutique stores, there are concerts and street performers, and tourists flock to the street because of it's location at the heart of the main tourist district in the downtown core.

Richmond Street however was never a major through street in Charlottetown, and the street closure therefore had little effect on traffic patterns. This was an easy decision to make.

Main Street in Moncton however is an entirely different story. Because of the nature of the street grid in the city, Main Street is the only thoroughfare that passes completely through the downtown part of the city east to west. Closure of Main Street would result in major traffic diversions to Assumption Blvd, Mountain Road and Queen Street. This would actually divert traffic away from the businesses on Main Street that would otherwise benefit from the presence of a pedestrian mall. A closure of Main Street would have a net negative benefit on the downtown core, where retailers are already struggling.

Would I like a pedestrian mall in the downtown? Yes I would; but this should be on a side street. The best candidate for pedestrianization IMHO would be Downing Street (once it's rehabilitation is complete). Downing Street will eventually connect city hall with the Riverfront Park, and will eventually be fronted by a new city market, condos and retail storefronts, in addition to the Blue Cross Centre and the city library. This is where the city of Moncton should focus it's pedestrianization vision...........

[Taeolas]

Yeah I'm not all that familiar with Moncton. But I'm familiar enough to realize that Main street is basically the Aorta of downtown. It's not the sort of street you want to try pinching off, even if the traffic is down.

They would be better served closing down some of the side streets and use those to establish street markets/outside eating space and what not.


As for Freddy, we're in a better shape because we have an actual grid in our downtown. But closing or even narrowing Queen and King would be difficult. But as the city is showing, with the Barracks space, with Phoenix Square and also with Carleton Street near the Library, we have areas we can close off or otherwise use for downtown use.

I love the idea for Phoenix Square and hope it does well and becomes a normal summer thing in general, even after the pandemic. (Doing that for the barracks square on the other hand would probably be difficult since so many events happen there already).

[drewber]

I live in Moncton and drive down main Street quite often. But like most people I use it as a thoroughfare and don't stop at any of the businesses anyway. I don't think closing down main Street is going to have a negative effect on businesses. If anything it would allow someone like myself to park on the side street and explore the area more. It couldn't hurt to at least try it even if it's just for a trial. To see how it goes. The other option I lake is making it a one-way Street. take half the road from each side and allow expansion of patios and then make a one-lane down the middle so that people can still access the businesses through drop off methods. Just a couple of ideas I'm no city planner.

[L'homard]

I would favour making part of Main Street a pedestrian space.
We've tried everything else for the past half century, and nothing has worked to bring people downtown EXCEPT when it is closed for concerts, car shows, Canada Day celebrations, etc....
During these events, traffic is diverted, as mentioned, to Queen, Assomption and to a lesser degree Mountain Road. The first day after the closure there is admittedly a bit of a cluster trying to drive into and out of the downtown, but after that everyone adjusts and there is very little traffic snafu. I worked downtown for 30 years and know what happens intimately when Main Street is shut down. I worked day shift, so I drove downtown during the morning rush, and home at 5 o'clock in the evening rush. Never had much of a problem doing so.
Now, this would require a series of events in the newly pedestrianized Main Street. Just throwing patio tables out there and hoping for the best would surely be a recipe for failure.
In the past half century, almost the only times Main Street has been abuzz with people and activity is when we've shut 'er down and gave preference to people, not cars.
I'm all fer it. I'm actually stunned that more businesses aren't in favour of trying it for one summer. The place is a ghost town. If that's what they want, I'll just continue to avoid that dead zone.

[MonctonRad]

The only thing in favour of pedestrianizing Main Street as far as I'm concerned is that it would help get rid of the aggressive panhandlers, vagrants, hobos and transients.

[daveynb]

Yes, exactly... at least try it now

Originally Posted by drewber

I live in Moncton and drive down main Street quite often. But like most people I use it as a thoroughfare and don't stop at any of the businesses anyway. I don't think closing down main Street is going to have a negative effect on businesses. If anything it would allow someone like myself to park on the side street and explore the area more. It couldn't hurt to at least try it even if it's just for a trial. To see how it goes. The other option I lake is making it a one-way Street. take half the road from each side and allow expansion of patios and then make a one-lane down the middle so that people can still access the businesses through drop off methods. Just a couple of ideas I'm no city planner.

[L'homard]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The only thing in favour of pedestrianizing Main Street as far as I'm concerned is that it would help get rid of the aggressive panhandlers, vagrants, hobos and transients.

I'm not sure that it would, it might attract more. After I had one of them walk up to my patio table and, quite literally, take my pack of smokes out of my pocket and take one out for himself ("You don't mind, eh?") I will try anything.

[shazapple]

Personally I find driving down Main Street terrible, although I agree complete closure probably wouldn't work. Maybe making it one way would be best (west to east, and then use Assomption for east to west)

[Franco401]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The only thing in favour of pedestrianizing Main Street as far as I'm concerned is that it would help get rid of the aggressive panhandlers, vagrants, hobos and transients.

They'd just go somewhere else. Should we install spikes on park benches too?

[benvui]

I can understand the apprehension about closing Main street. I work downtown and leaving after work in the summer is always slow going. Closing Main street would make this worse. Having said that, I would be all for closing Main street and make it a pedestrian mall. If they make getting off Main easier (turn the intersection at Lutz into a stop for Lutz and Main instead of a controlled light or change the light pattern and do that the same at the other end. Increasing foot traffic on Main street vs. car traffic I would think would be better for retailers and restaurants in that area, but I'm not an expert.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by shazapple

Personally I find driving down Main Street terrible, although I agree complete closure probably wouldn't work. Maybe making it one way would be best (west to east, and then use Assomption for east to west)

Or leave Assomption two way and make Queen one way. I think that would divert a lot of downtown traffic onto Assomption which could handle it better. If Main ever becomes one way, you could possibly widen the sidewalks, allowing more patio space.
However, I think things will remain as they are.

[Taeolas]

Seems like part of the issue is the railway; that is a crimp on the traffic flow plans in the area in general.

But maybe what should happen (as someone else suggested) is they should make Assomption Blvd the main artery for getting across the core (or rather for skirting around the core) and make Main Street effectively local traffic only.

So the east end where Assomption meets Main, traffic flow should be encouraged to go down the boulevard instead of going straight, and then the Vaughn Harvey Blvd would pick up the traffic at the other end.

I think the city is planning on another east-westish street south of Main to reestablish the grid there. If that happens (eyeballing the map, if it went from Downing to Foundry), then that new street could be one way and Main turned into the opposite one way direction.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

But maybe what should happen (as someone else suggested) is they should make Assomption Blvd the main artery for getting across the core (or rather for skirting around the core) and make Main Street effectively local traffic only.

Well, with the incipient relocation of the Codiac RCMP from their current building to their new digs on Albert Street (in a couple of years time), there is actually the potential for a "big fix", costing millions of dollars.

It would entail a realignment of East Main so that it would feed directly onto Assumption Blvd, with a "T" shaped intersection allowing westbound traffic to access the downtown portion if Main Street via a right hand turning lane.

On the other side of downtown, you could actually have a continuation of Assumption Blvd extending beyond Vaughan Harvey, and reconnecting with West Main in the west end of the city, allowing unimpeded cross town traffic flow.

This is an interesting thought experiment. I'm currently at work and therefore can't come up with a design to post, but maybe I'll do something up tonight.

[MonctonRad]

Well, here it is - my "big fix" proposal for the permanent pedestrianization of Main Street.



You can see how with the removal of the Codiac RCMP headquarter, it becomes very easy to divert all Main Street traffic to Assumption Blvd. This would have the added benefit of getting rid of the problem with all those pesky trucks getting stuck under the Subway on Main Street.

Not only have I pedestrianized Main Street between the Subway and Assumption Place, but I also pedestrianized Orange Lane south of the entrance into the city hall parking lot (something that I think should actually be done).

Thoughts???

[shazapple]

I would think Lutz to Orange lane would be the most likely candidate for changes. make this section one way (west to east) with wider sidewalks and diagonal parking down one side (alternate sides based one the type of business area). Westbound traffic diverts onto assomption and can circle back on foundry.

No need to rebuild the city for this either. Some paint and barriers would be all that I'd needed to give it a try.

[jonny golden]

City council meeting today:
Motion related to turning a portion of Moncton's Main Street to one-way with a bike lane until the end of October passes unanimously. Proposing east to west starting from Botsford to Lutz. The change would require a bylaw amendment, which requires second and third reading at a future council meeting (likely June 20).

[jonny golden]

At today's city council meeting, Moncton councilors give the go ahead to the temporary switch to one-way traffic on Main Street westbound between Lutz and Botsford Streets. In addition there's a bike lane separated from traffic by cement barriers. It's a temporary switch that will end Sept 30th not Oct. 31st as was originally proposed.

Can't say that I like this idea.

[shazapple]

Well my guess was pretty close but in the opposite direction. If the restaurants take advantage of this opportunity I think it will be great. It would be very similar to Queen Street in Fredericton which has a great vibe. I think drivers will like it as well once they break the habit. Main is fun to drive down to see what's going on, but terrible for commuting.

I think the city should be applauded for trying this. I'm glad they are willing to experiment as too often people get too caught up in making/keeping permanent changes.

[lirette]

I'm not sure I understand the opposition to this idea. Downtown Moncton has always lacked patio space. This will expand the patio space for all these businesses which should bring far more customers and give a more street festival feel to downtown in the summer. Do we know how many parking spaces are lost in this ? 50?

I look at a business like tire shack which with the warmer weather has built a large patio, and also opened up all their garage doors to create a totally open air space. The result = business was at capacity on a Sunday afternoon. I think places like old triangle which are abit stuffy inside will see a nice uptick from this.

I don't get any vibe that the folks who go downtown for a meal and a drink are also the type that need parking right next to the restaurant on main st. The opposition to this reminds me abit of the avenir lack of parking issue. We've had a couple years to train the public on the additional parking available downtown on the side streets.