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  #61  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2020, 1:43 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Originally Posted by Boku View Post
Oh, ok. Pissing off neighbors is just a savvy business move. Thanks for the explanation.
You've clearly never been to a neighborhood zoning committee meeting.
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  #62  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 7:38 PM
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Work Description
FOR THE LOT ADJUSTMENT TO CREATE ONE(1) PARCEL "PARCEL A" FROM TWO(2) OPA ACCOUNTS ( 200 S 12TH ST AND 204 S 12TH ST). SIZE AND LOCATION AS SHOWN IN THE APPLICATION.
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  #63  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2020, 8:36 PM
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Nice! Next step towards construction...
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  #64  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2020, 5:22 AM
Inquizative Inquizative is offline
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I believe these murals began in the advent of the Anti-Graffiti Network. They began painting murals to deter graffiti writers from defacing properties. A kind of organized graffiti program. Many of the murals were done by graffiti writers themselves. Now it's seems to have evolved into a more emotional attachment, which now inhibits development. This is something Philly sorely needs. I suggest a happy medium, such as re-painting the mural elsewhere in prominent spot but there are those who do not like change even if it is for the better.
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  #65  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2020, 3:03 PM
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Jawnadelphia Jawnadelphia is offline
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Mural is being painted over this morning:


https://www.instagram.com/p/CJJLhv5ly6u/
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  #66  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2020, 4:24 PM
allovertown allovertown is offline
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Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia View Post
Mural is being painted over this morning:


https://www.instagram.com/p/CJJLhv5ly6u/
Wow.

I'm all for moving ahead with this project and finding another place to paint this mural. Proactively painting over the mural rubs me the wrong way though.

Oh well. They better get busy then. I don't want to see this ugly white wall for years.
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  #67  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2020, 4:35 PM
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^^^^^^^+1. Nor do we any more long term holes in the ground.
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  #68  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2020, 4:59 PM
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Hmm - it is a little strange to proactively wipe out the mural. But I imagine people were trying to excessively shake them down over the issue, and this was a way to put the discussion to rest and is entirely within their rights. (Basically saying - yeah, you have no leverage at all.) I will offer two positives from this move:

(1) As a previous commenter had stated, if you allow the existence of a mural to deter development and progress, it will be the end of the mural program. No owner will ever allow a mural to be painted on their property and in turn have it used against them.

(2) Also as stated above, the bright white wall will lead to additional pressure to get moving on the project.
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  #69  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2020, 6:47 PM
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  #70  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2020, 6:55 PM
Mark in Mount Airy Mark in Mount Airy is offline
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let's not over-react

I don't think we should over-react to one instance where some NIMBY or shakedown artist used the existence of a mural to try to stop development. The murals of Philadelphia are awesome, the program that produces them is terrific, and probably the last people in the City who would want to see their work used as a rationale against development would be them, because (as one poster accurately noted) if this rationale were to multiply it would be the end of their program. People already use the existence of scrub gardens in vacant lots to try to stop development -- that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to stop people from temporarily beautifying little tracts in advance of development. NIMBYs are gonna NIMBY, and shakedown artists are gonna shake down. I'm a gay man who completely appreciates the recognition of our community by the mural, and at the same time I would have painted over it myself as soon as possible to remove one more ridiculous objection to development. Just repaint the mural elsewhere. It's not like it's a Violet Oakley.
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  #71  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2020, 8:51 PM
allovertown allovertown is offline
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Originally Posted by Mark in Mount Airy View Post
I don't think we should over-react to one instance where some NIMBY or shakedown artist used the existence of a mural to try to stop development. The murals of Philadelphia are awesome, the program that produces them is terrific, and probably the last people in the City who would want to see their work used as a rationale against development would be them, because (as one poster accurately noted) if this rationale were to multiply it would be the end of their program. People already use the existence of scrub gardens in vacant lots to try to stop development -- that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to stop people from temporarily beautifying little tracts in advance of development. NIMBYs are gonna NIMBY, and shakedown artists are gonna shake down. I'm a gay man who completely appreciates the recognition of our community by the mural, and at the same time I would have painted over it myself as soon as possible to remove one more ridiculous objection to development. Just repaint the mural elsewhere. It's not like it's a Violet Oakley.
I mostly agree. I definitely don't think this mural should stand in the way of development.

But what was once a handsome looking mural on a nice brick wall, is now a really ugly white wall painted over brick. If this ugly wall is here for a month or two and then we get a nice tower, fine. I've got no issue at all with that.

My problem is, if they were going to demo the building and start construction, you'd think they'd just do that. Painting the wall doesn't feel to me like the move of someone that is about to move forward with a major construction project. To me it feels like the move of someone that has no intentions of getting started any time soon, but wants to get rid of the mural so it doesn't become a more serious roadblock to development down the road in case someone was able to get it historically protected or whatever.

To me it seems like the same type of move made by Toll over at Jewelers Row when they demoed those buildings. They're making moves that are only concerned with them and their own interests, so that they have maximum flexible with their land going forward so that it's ready whenever they deign to actually build something on it.

So again, no problem with this if construction is imminent. But if I have to look at this wall for a few years, I'm not happy.
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  #72  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2020, 1:08 AM
City Wide City Wide is offline
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My money is down that this white wall will be tagged by the end of the week end.
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  #73  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2020, 3:54 PM
Boku Boku is offline
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My money is down that this white wall will be tagged by the end of the week end.
A nice mural could cover up the graffiti and deter future graffiti!
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  #74  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2020, 1:35 PM
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Looks like Midwood (the developer) really gave an F-you to the arts/LGBT community...reading these posts at least from the Mural Arts Program and Streets Department (blogger).

"When we first learned the building would be redeveloped, we invested months negotiating a letter of intent with Midwood to create a new tribute to the legacy of Gloria Casarez and Henry Minton, a leading Black abolitionist who once resided at that location. After this unexpected development, we cannot in good conscience move forward. We support artist Michelle Angela Ortiz’s decision to step away from the project and share the community’s devastation."
https://www.instagram.com/p/CJJz4val1rY/



"Update: Both artist @michelleangelaortiz and @muralarts released statements today about the whitewashing of their Gloria Casarez mural, which you should read in full. Michelle is currently on site in protest projecting the mural back on the now white wall with the words: "You can't erase our history." (Photo from @michelleangelaortiz)"
https://www.instagram.com/p/CJKgI2WgNJf/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJKX5_SDrbH/

Not a good look Midwood!

Edit: didn't see the article in the Inquirer until now, another condemnation:
https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/com...-20201224.html

Last edited by Jawnadelphia; Dec 27, 2020 at 1:47 PM. Reason: Inquirer article
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  #75  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2020, 2:33 PM
Justin7 Justin7 is online now
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Calling this a "violent act" is absurd. The mural was 5 years old and on an anti-urban bunker of a building. While the subject may have been someone special, the art itself was not, and Midwood agreed to fully fund a replacement. I understand people are hurt by this, and I feel for those who lost someone important to them, but no one's "history is being erased." Find another way to honor Ms. Casarez.

The Minton house, on the other hand, holds far more historical significance and should be preserved.
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  #76  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2020, 5:10 PM
allovertown allovertown is offline
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Originally Posted by Justin7 View Post
Calling this a "violent act" is absurd. The mural was 5 years old and on an anti-urban bunker of a building. While the subject may have been someone special, the art itself was not, and Midwood agreed to fully fund a replacement. I understand people are hurt by this, and I feel for those who lost someone important to them, but no one's "history is being erased." Find another way to honor Ms. Casarez.

The Minton house, on the other hand, holds far more historical significance and should be preserved.
How much more anti urban does the building look currently? Looks terrible. Destroying the mural before destroying the building may not be violence, but it's certainly aggression.

I don't even get it. Was there any real chance that they demolition could have been prevented due to this mural? Their victory was all but certain, was it not? Seems like they've gone out of their way to piss people off.
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  #77  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2020, 5:35 PM
Larry King Larry King is offline
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It's not aggression, they came to an agreement to replace the mural and then covered it so when it's demolished it won't look like they're destroying the woman's face. It's more respectful to cover now prior to demo. The demo permit was issued on the 15th, so it's likely imminent.
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  #78  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2020, 9:57 PM
allovertown allovertown is offline
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Originally Posted by Larry King View Post
It's not aggression, they came to an agreement to replace the mural and then covered it so when it's demolished it won't look like they're destroying the woman's face. It's more respectful to cover now prior to demo. The demo permit was issued on the 15th, so it's likely imminent.
Hadn't thought of it that way. If demolition is truly imminent and we'll see construction soon afterwards, then I think it will blow over and glad to see things progress.
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  #79  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2020, 12:31 AM
PurpleWhiteOut PurpleWhiteOut is offline
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I don't get the point of refusing to work with him on the new mural after this. I get they feel slighted, but Midwood is offering to pay for it, so why not take the money? I would think refusing means it's more likely there won't be a replacement at all.

I agree if they just gave a heads up and thought of saying they thought it'd be disrespectful to demolish her face, they would have been fine.
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  #80  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2020, 2:18 AM
Larry King Larry King is offline
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I don't get the point of refusing to work with him on the new mural after this. I get they feel slighted, but Midwood is offering to pay for it, so why not take the money? I would think refusing means it's more likely there won't be a replacement at all.

I agree if they just gave a heads up and thought of saying they thought it'd be disrespectful to demolish her face, they would have been fine.
I think Midwood is planning to spend 600k on the mural, makes 0 sense to turn it down. Will be a permanent mural as the new high rise isn't going to be demolished in the next 100 years.
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