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View Poll Results: Should Canada still see the British Monarch as its own?
Continue to recognize the Monarchy 72 39.13%
Get rid of it 97 52.72%
Split Royal Family to reign Commonwealth members 15 8.15%
Voters: 184. You may not vote on this poll

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  #441  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2021, 8:53 PM
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Originally Posted by urbandreamer View Post
Chadillaccc's writing is typical of the academic papers I've read - terribly written filled with emotion and mainstream unoriginal ideas. Explains why print media and the CBC etc has gone to shit. Prince Phillip displayed typical upper class English humour - understated delivery with a humorous punch. You have to be kind of German to take it so literally.

Kind of reminds me of my dad's sense of humour: eg I asked him "Do you believe in Jesus?" to which he replied "Do you believe in Santa Claus?"
I wrote it in 15 minutes and didn't even bother proof reading it, so I'll take the "terribly written" comment Just needed to bang it out and get an A+. Scathing ass wipes is what I do both here and in the world on a daily basis, so I figured might as well do it in a paper too. If he wanted something thoughtful and original, he would have asked for multiple, thoroughly researched sources and at least several pages.... not a paragraph
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  #442  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 2:19 AM
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Just wanted to say sorry for starting arguments such as my post above and in other threads the past few days. I've been super sluggish and lazy and just glued to my computer but not doing anything productive, and this site is a big part of what I'm glued to. Thank god I have Aurora getting me out for long walks or I'd be out of my mind right now with this damn pandemic + final papers/exams.

I'll do my best to refrain from being even more confrontational than my usual self. Thanks
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  #443  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 2:38 AM
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Some are struggling with confliction over an archaic classist institution, but one which has been a central symbolic unifying and motivational force in our history. I think after the Queen is gone, it will have much less chance of survival here.
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  #444  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 4:16 AM
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Since we're talking a lot on here about woke-ism and how awful "woke" people are, could anyone provide a link to an academic article against things like distributive justice?
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  #445  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
Since we're talking a lot on here about woke-ism and how awful "woke" people are, could anyone provide a link to an academic article against things like distributive justice?
Speaking only for myself (though people seem to think I am the anti-woke ringleader on here) it's not so much the views that are problematic, as it is the tendency to want to shut down discussions and only want one specific view voiced or considered legitimate.

Not saying you yourself actually do this (I can't recall, in all honesty).

As for your views on the monarchy, yes they could definitely be called "woke" but perfectly legitimate to be voiced IMO. (I sorta share a few of them in a way, as you can imagine.)
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  #446  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
Some are struggling with confliction over an archaic classist institution, but one which has been a central symbolic unifying and motivational force in our history. .
I'd counter-argue a pretty firm YMMV on that.

Cue the video to about 9:20.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OusltnEACNE
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  #447  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 1:00 PM
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He's not my relative, he has never had any bearing or relevance in my life, he deserved far worse words but it was for school so I toned it down.
Fair enough, you're definitely entitled to that opinion; it isn't uncommon.

I have no issue with the "principle" behind the woketarianism? movement, but I find it a bit... black and white sometimes (OMG, you know what I mean!) IMHO, everyone is "racist" and biased... but it's a a spectrum... and a fluid thing.

In the case of Philip, I'm going to hope that at some distant time in the past he would be what we considered what we would call classically racist... but over time progressed through "ignorant" to "clumsily learning" to "still clumsy but understands the principle of what he SHOULD be doing" to... death before he got any further.

In short, he's hopefully like many "typical" 99 year old people. To villify him any more than anyone else of that vintage would be rather arrogant of us. It's entirely possible some people like him have "evolved" their viewpont, from it's starting point, much more than many of US have... That's just my 2c though.
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  #448  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 1:41 PM
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Personally I find the criticisms of Prince Phillips (or any of the Royals) as racist come across as a bit hackish. It's probably true, but kind of misses the point really. We're talking about people that are so comically out of touch and consider themselves above any semblance of the "common people" that it falls flat. Even above and beyond the surprisingly intact British class system. For example, some of my extremely out of touch older upper class British relatives have literally said things like "Council Housing was wonderful before the darkies took it over" and are abhorred that we are "too nice" to service workers here. Yet even this type of upper crust aren't considered close to being peers of the Royal Family!

If I had to do a critique I'd go that route. And also just make fun of him. Dude was looking like the Cryptkeeper for the last decade of his life no matter how many orphan children were harvested to somehow keep him alive.
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  #449  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 5:41 PM
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I'm not even sure I know what he looks like. I've literally never given a moment's thought to him in my entire life. The UK royals that reside in my visual memory bank are limited to the queen and Princess Diana. I always skip over headlines related to British royalty without focusing in on any accompanying photos, but I think it'd be practically impossible not to be aware of the celebrity of those two.
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  #450  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 5:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Speaking only for myself (though people seem to think I am the anti-woke ringleader on here) it's not so much the views that are problematic, as it is the tendency to want to shut down discussions and only want one specific view voiced or considered legitimate.
I get that, that is why I was asking if anyone had any good peer reviewed stuff from the other side of the table that I could peruse. Distributive justice is certainly a "woke" issue, and I'd love to see how/if someone could argue against its necessity for the future of our species. Stuff like the inclusion of indigenous and non-western perspective in the development of sustainability strategies as well. How can we ignore such ancient theoretical frameworks, especially when considering the severity of the challenges we are facing. There's a lot of things "woke" people just can't find legitimate arguments against other than conservative arguments of maintaining the status quo or that somehow capitalism will adapt to not be as fucked (the question there is, if capitalism did alter to the point that it doesn't necessitate the annihilation of the planet through infinite growth purely for the sake of growth/accumulation/hoarding, would it still be capitalism?). Either way, the problem is that the status quo isn't working out so hot for our civilization or our planet, so something's gotta give.
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  #451  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 6:05 PM
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Either way, the problem is that the status quo isn't working out so hot for our civilization or our planet, so something's gotta give.
You're eliding woketarianism with ecological issues. But even so, a big part of the disagreement is how you view the status quo. Wokesters are all about revolution, or at least pretending to want revolution, while non-wokesters aren't. And if you want to expand the purview to climate change and the future of the populated earth, non-wokesters would argue that the answers/responses that scientists are working on and that governments are putting into place are a better path forward than the hypotheticals called for by those who whinge about "capitalism" or want some kind of "fundamental shift in the paradigm," or whatever.
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  #452  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 6:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
I get that, that is why I was asking if anyone had any good peer reviewed stuff from the other side of the table that I could peruse. Distributive justice is certainly a "woke" issue, and I'd love to see how/if someone could argue against its necessity for the future of our species. Stuff like the inclusion of indigenous and non-western perspective in the development of sustainability strategies as well. How can we ignore such ancient theoretical frameworks, especially when considering the severity of the challenges we are facing. There's a lot of things "woke" people just can't find legitimate arguments against other than conservative arguments of maintaining the status quo or that somehow capitalism will adapt to not be as fucked (the question there is, if capitalism did alter to the point that it doesn't necessitate the annihilation of the planet through infinite growth purely for the sake of growth/accumulation/hoarding, would it still be capitalism?). Either way, the problem is that the status quo isn't working out so hot for our civilization or our planet, so something's gotta give.
The general subject of the conversation on the monarchy is; should we stick with an institution for the sake of tradition, even though our modern institutions have made the function of monarchy irrelevant and unnecessary? So I don't see how it follows that abandoning the monarchy is compatible with the preservation of similarly archaic and irrelevant institutions of indigenous culture. Those indigenous governmental mechanisms may have worked in the world they operated in, but they have little to offer today when we need to govern a country of 37 million people with contemporary issues.

The desire to preserve those ancient cultures is actually a (true) conservative political position, not progressive. And conservative politics is the politics of failure - delaying the inevitable.
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  #453  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 7:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
I get that, that is why I was asking if anyone had any good peer reviewed stuff from the other side of the table that I could peruse. Distributive justice is certainly a "woke" issue, and I'd love to see how/if someone could argue against its necessity for the future of our species. Stuff like the inclusion of indigenous and non-western perspective in the development of sustainability strategies as well. How can we ignore such ancient theoretical frameworks, especially when considering the severity of the challenges we are facing. There's a lot of things "woke" people just can't find legitimate arguments against other than conservative arguments of maintaining the status quo or that somehow capitalism will adapt to not be as fucked (the question there is, if capitalism did alter to the point that it doesn't necessitate the annihilation of the planet through infinite growth purely for the sake of growth/accumulation/hoarding, would it still be capitalism?). Either way, the problem is that the status quo isn't working out so hot for our civilization or our planet, so something's gotta give.
You've taken things on a bit of a tangent here. While the question of whether capitalism is compatible with ecological responsibility and sustainability is a good one (in fact a critical one for the future), the preoccupations of the woke are more focused on the interactions between humans themselves and the societal structures that have been erected across the western world.

This can include capitalism of course but is not limited to it.

The environment of course is related too as it is essential to human well-being but again, this isn't a main woke issue. Not saying that woke types don't care about the environment - they do. But that's not what is getting all of the attention at the moment, and for some reason woke opinion leaders don't seem interested in shifting the focus much.

As for capitalism more specifically (since you brought it up), while I am more of a social democrat myself I don't think it's as cut-and-dried as you allege that it's a catastrophic failure in terms of providing a pretty high level of material well-being and comfort to a pretty significant share of the world's population.

Though I do prefer the more human, tamed capitalism practised in a number of western countries (including Canada, sometimes) to the more raw, winner-take-all, sucks-to-be-you capitalism of the US.
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  #454  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2021, 11:34 PM
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Personally I find the criticisms of Prince Phillips (or any of the Royals) as racist come across as a bit hackish. It's probably true, but kind of misses the point really. We're talking about people that are so comically out of touch and consider themselves above any semblance of the "common people" that it falls flat. Even above and beyond the surprisingly intact British class system. For example, some of my extremely out of touch older upper class British relatives have literally said things like "Council Housing was wonderful before the darkies took it over" and are abhorred that we are "too nice" to service workers here. Yet even this type of upper crust aren't considered close to being peers of the Royal Family!

If I had to do a critique I'd go that route. And also just make fun of him. Dude was looking like the Cryptkeeper for the last decade of his life no matter how many orphan children were harvested to somehow keep him alive.
Honestly those photos last month of him coming out of the hospital his facial expression seemed to ask, "Why/How am I still alive???"
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  #455  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2021, 10:38 AM
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The questions I posed were examples, not all-encompassing. Your responses have told me what I didn't want (but expected) to hear from this forum.

Thanks to Acajack for actually providing thoughtful response.

I'll respond to the rest when I'm not passing out shitfaced
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  #456  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2021, 11:31 PM
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Yeah shit I was really trashed yesterday, sorry for the tangent y'all. It is pretty relevant to the whole "woke" vs. "unwoke" thing though I guess. Just totally off topic for here.

Truth be told, I was mostly trying to get sources arguing the opposite on certain issues for a paper I'm writing. Got the sources last night anyway though
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  #457  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2021, 12:22 AM
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Yeah shit I was really trashed yesterday, sorry for the tangent y'all. It is pretty relevant to the whole "woke" vs. "unwoke" thing though I guess. Just totally off topic for here.

Truth be told, I was mostly trying to get sources arguing the opposite on certain issues for a paper I'm writing. Got the sources last night anyway though
You'll find compelling arguments like this.

Quote:
Canadians living in a diverse and mobile society rarely properly describe people as "foreigners". We judge individuals not by the place of their birth, the colour of their skin or their accents, but by their character and their contribution to Canadian society. By this standard our Queen is as Canadian as can be: in her length of service to the country, in her pride in being our Queen and our reciprocal affection for her, in her being the embodiment of citizenship, the source of law and the guardian of the constitution, and in her linking us to the multi-cultural peaceful alliance that is the Commonwealth.
https://www.monarchist.ca/index.php/...t-the-monarchy
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  #458  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2021, 1:01 AM
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I would argue that accent works in Canada the way it does most everywhere else: marks you as either an insider or an outsider. It's really the UK that takes class to the next level. Is there anywhere else like it?

If I hear a standard Canadian accent indicating that someone grew up here, then I know I can engage in certain types of banter that I can't otherwise. I've been caught out a couple times, though. Meaning that sometimes paths cross, and an immigrant with whom I'm acquainted and have cheery conversations will see how much more freely and not altogether understandably I interact with born-and-raised Canucks, and I can't help but detect a faint glimmer of disappointment when that happens.

It's not a rigid and all-encompassing "you'll never really be Japanese" dynamic, but it's still there to some degree.
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  #459  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2021, 2:18 AM
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If I hear a standard Canadian accent indicating that someone grew up here, then I know I can engage in certain types of banter that I can't otherwise.
You're able to engage in banter with born and bred Canadians : I find that quite hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBWuDhIv9B0

You must interact with different 'canadians' than I do.
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  #460  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2021, 3:35 AM
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You're able to engage in banter with born and bred Canadians : I find that quite hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBWuDhIv9B0

You must interact with different 'canadians' than I do.
"Now listeners, I have someone on the line who fears he may be a gay. He’s married, so he wishes to remain anonymous. I shall only be using his Christian name. I’m talking to Domingo in Little Oakley. No? He’s gone. That’s a pity. Marvellous little tapas bar there."

Tell you what, I'll record myself on my phone the next time I have a conversation with a true blue Canucklehead so that you can watch and learn how to banter with the natives.
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