Centre Plan

IanWatson · #1 Posted **Feb 25, 2016, 4:49 PM**

It's official, Centre Plan is under way!

www.centreplan.ca

IanWatson · #2 Posted **Mar 21, 2016, 3:55 PM**

The Centre Plan kickoff event is tonight (Monday) at Alderney Landing in Dartmouth in the farmers market space. It's an open house (drop-in any time) format from 6-9pm.

Colin May · #3 Posted **Mar 21, 2016, 7:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanWatson

The Centre Plan kickoff event is tonight (Monday) at Alderney Landing in Dartmouth in the farmers market space. It's an open house (drop-in any time) format from 6-9pm.

See you there.
I have my list of 'wants' :

- HRM to purchase Brightwood for park and open space
- Density bonusing restricted to cash for local use and low income housing
- Right to light
- Development to target families in support of existing schools

And I have almost finished a review of residential sales in Metro in the $450,000 - $2,000,000 range from January 1 2012 to March 19 2016.

IanWatson · #4 Posted **May 4, 2016, 12:08 PM**

Probably should have mentioned this earlier, but HRM is currently hosting Centre Plan neighbourhood workshops. The ones in Dartmouth were Monday and Tuesday (I think I saw Colin there last night).

The open house in March was a kick-off event intended to introduce the project. These upcoming meetings are actual workshops with the intent of actually getting down to the nuts and bolts of what matters/what should be done in our neighbourhoods.

Upcoming workshops include Thursday the 5th at the St. Mary's Boat Club, and Wednesday the 11th at the Forum. There are two workshops on each of those days, at 1pm and 6pm.

Hali87 · #5 Posted **May 5, 2016, 8:01 PM**

Just a reminder to anyone interested that there's a CP workshop going on at Saint Mary's Boat Club this evening at 6.

Keith P. · #6 Posted **Oct 20, 2016, 8:15 PM**

Giving this a bump in order to discuss the document released which is found here:

Centre Plan

A quick read seems to lead one to conclude that the NIMBYs and anti-tall building forces have once again had their way. Nothing over 20 storeys anywhere, as I read it, with even those areas severely limited. The usual cycling BS makes its appearance too of course - that seems required by planning dogma these days. Very disappointing.

musicman · #7 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 12:03 AM**

Well that is a disapointing read....

worldlyhaligonian · #8 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 1:38 AM**

20 stories is such a weird threshold... it seems like there would be more effective land use at slightly higher, 25-40 range.

Keith P. · #9 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 11:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

20 stories is such a weird threshold... it seems like there would be more effective land use at slightly higher, 25-40 range.

But those would be TOO TALL!!!

Ziobrop · #10 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 12:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P.

But those would be TOO TALL!!!

why do we need tall? besides stroking some developers ego.
why is it desirable? how is 30 stories so much better then 20?

Keith P. · #11 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 12:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziobrop

why do we need tall? besides stroking some developers ego.
why is it desirable? how is 30 stories so much better then 20?

Let me flip the question: why is 20 so much better for a city than 30?

OldDartmouthMark · #12 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 1:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Let me flip the question: why is 20 so much better for a city than 30?

Translation: I don't have a good answer so I'll ask another question.

Drybrain · #13 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 2:42 PM**

I'm more bothered that there's virtually nothing in here about heritage conservation, nor about the rampant lot consolidation that threatens to create big, bulky, anti-urban streetwalls (and often eliminate a lot of non-heritage but nonetheless historic building stock).

As far as height, I'm sure we haven't seen the end of 20+ storey buildings in Halifax. And as has been pointed out often, we already have a whole lot for a city of this size. Urbanity is not very well correlated with tallness. I care about having an urban city, not a tall city, so...whatever.

eastcoastal · #14 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 3:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I'm more bothered that there's virtually nothing in here about heritage conservation, nor about the rampant lot consolidation that threatens to create big, bulky, anti-urban streetwalls (and often eliminate a lot of non-heritage but nonetheless historic building stock).

The priority for the Young St "Centre" is "reintroducing a formalized block pattern," and includes a graphic that hints at breaking up some existing blocks that are too large to be valuable contributers to an urban environment. I didn't really find anything that focused on excluding block consolidation and share your concerns.

Also not entirely sure we need 20+ stories sprinkled across the peninsula. Fine with me if they stick to "downtown" areas. I particularly like that the target heights for Agricola were lowered... sacrilege in a skyscraper forum perhaps, but I really feel like 3-6 storeys suits that street.

portapetey · #15 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 5:13 PM**

I would very much like to see a smattering of 30ish story buildings around the peninsula to add some variety to the skyline; a number of current proposals in this range look good to me and I hope they go forward.

I think 40+ stories is unrealistic to expect in a city of this size.

But, food for thought - in terms of creating a dense, more urban feel for the city overall, what's better? Two 15-story or 3 10-story buildings, or a single 30 story building?

I like tall buildings, but I feel like "tall" is Halifax's "monorail" - "oh, if we just have a few 40 story buildings, we'll be in the big leagues. We'll be on the map! We won't be a backwater any more!" Well, no, not really - we'll still be a small, isolated city of 350K with an admittedly impressive skyline for a small, isolated city of 350K.

Keith P. · #16 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 5:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Translation: I don't have a good answer so I'll ask another question.

Oh, go carve some styrofoam Faux-Victorian fake cornices.

OldDartmouthMark · #17 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 7:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Oh, go carve some styrofoam Faux-Victorian fake cornices.

That was a lame comeback, even for you.

Ziobrop · #18 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 7:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Let me flip the question: why is 20 so much better for a city than 30?

i never said it was - but 20 is the limit in the plan... that's unacceptable to you, so id like you to articulate why a bigger arbitrary number is better then a smaller arbitrary number of stories.

portapetey · #19 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 8:06 PM**

Would the adoption of the new Centre Plan affect / quash some of the current proposals for taller buildings - e.g. the Robie & Quinpool, Spring Garden & Robie, or the signature tower at King's Wharf? All those seem to have pretty good support here.

(Sorry, too lazy to go read it myself.)

There's also that one over by SMU but that seems to be pretty much universally condemned.

terrynorthend · #20 Posted **Oct 21, 2016, 8:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziobrop

i never said it was - but 20 is the limit in the plan... that's unacceptable to you, so id like you to articulate why a bigger arbitrary number is better then a smaller arbitrary number of stories.

They talk about height regimes and bonusing in the plan. In a zone that qualifies for 16-20 stories, is that 16 as of right and up to 20 with bonusing, or is it build 16-20 as of right and you can get more than 20 with bonusing? I wasn't clear on reading the plan if bonusing could get a developer more than 20 stories or not.

I was also concerned that for some lots that already have proposals started, the plan seemed to shut those down, even if the proposal and area makes a lot of sense. For example, the corner of Robie and Spring Garden (16-20 zone), the Little Nashville site on Wyse road (4-6 zone), The Bens Bakery site on Pepperell (4-6 zone), Cruikshanks Funeral Home on Robie next to The Welsford (4-6 zone) - for crying out loud, they zone the Welsford property as 4-6!

It was disheartening to see these vast centre areas in red on the main map, only to drill down and see that precious small portions were dedicated to anything more than 4-6 let alone 7-20. I agree that a few 30 story buildings around town are nice to have, maybe there will be, maybe there won't. And I don't necessarily need or want to see much more 20 story zones, but I'd hope to see more swathes of 11-15 and certainly 7-10 throughout these primary growth areas. This is all expensive property, subject to high property tax in the current regime, and its not difficult to imagine developers stepping back from these properties because it would be hard to build a profitable project that is a) architecturally interesting b) made from quality materials c) affordable for tenants.

It could all serve to accelerate growth outside of the centre where developers can still cut deals to get more bang for their buck and pay less tax to boot.