Oakridge Park | 13 Towers | 154m | 52fl | 5M sqft | U/C

[city-dweller]

The first re-zoning open house is Thursday, November 15, 5-8 pm.

I plan to go and then go for drinks! Anyone else?

City link

[squeezied]

Just a reminder the open house is tomorrow! I'll be dropping by for a visit (and listen to some grumpy people complain).

[wrenegade]

I'll be stopping in this evening as well, probably can only be a short stay though.

[West22]

Went to the Open House at Oakridge Mall today. There were quite a few city people and development team people answering questions. It was fairly busy, with mostly local representation. The model is quite nice and helps to give a better indication of the scale and massing. In the renders I've seen in the online presentation, the towers look shorter due perhaps to the variation in floorplate/balcony size in many of them.

I think it is a pretty bold and progressive plan for this part of Vancouver, and generally supportive. High retail density (~2.5 x the current retail), with 2800+ residential units and only 1300 residential parking spots. I think offering the choice of a unit with good transit connectivity and no parking stall is one good way to increase affordability. My impression is that this option is still rare in Vancouver.

The vision for the pedestrian high street is to have an active, lively environment with restaurants and community amenities in addition to retail, all with residences above. Hopefully this can work, but I can imagine people moving in and complaining about noise and activity levels.

Unfortunately a cycling and pedestrian plan was completely absent. Even though the city boards emphasized "Prioritizing Cycling and Walking" in the Cambie Corridor plan (see section 1.4 of http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/Cambie-Corridor-Plan.pdf ) it was a complete miss from the project team. They talked about a bike-share and a valet bike parking for residents (interesting concepts), but nothing about how the residents would cycle within and outside the development.

The project boards did not indicate any bike paths on the New Street (two reps gave 2 different opinions), and did not show any connectivity to Heather and 45th Ave bikeways (which are adjacent) nor Yukon and Ontario bikeways (which are nearby).

Accessing the Canada Line Station by bike from Heather St is impossible to do safely today. I asked the project reps about this and got a variety of 1980s-ish answers:
- "you can ride down the High Street" - a 50' wide pedestrian mall with sidewalk cafes and shoppers criss-crossing between shops? not safely.
- "you can ride through the mall if it isn't busy"
- "just ride on the sidewalk" I don't even like to walk on that sidewalk with all the low visibility entrances to the pkg lot.
- "what's wrong with the bike lane on 41st Ave?" You mean the bike painted in the middle of the right lane, sharing that lane with a high volume express bus, a local bus route, high speed traffic, and cars turning into and out of the mall? Everything is wrong!

Oakridge is currently an obstacle in the cycling network, diverting N/S traffic on Heather St and blocking safe access to the Canada Line Station. To get to even this early stage of planning with apparently no thought of improving cycling infrastructure, which is one of the top priorities of the corridor plan, is absurd.

[renthefinn]

Originally Posted by West22

Went to the Open House at Oakridge Mall today. There were quite a few city people and development team people answering questions. It was fairly busy, with mostly local representation. The model is quite nice and helps to give a better indication of the scale and massing. In the renders I've seen in the online presentation, the towers look shorter due perhaps to the variation in floorplate/balcony size in many of them.

I think it is a pretty bold and progressive plan for this part of Vancouver, and generally supportive. High retail density (~2.5 x the current retail), with 2800+ residential units and only 1300 residential parking spots. I think offering the choice of a unit with good transit connectivity and no parking stall is one good way to increase affordability. My impression is that this option is still rare in Vancouver.

The vision for the pedestrian high street is to have an active, lively environment with restaurants and community amenities in addition to retail, all with residences above. Hopefully this can work, but I can imagine people moving in and complaining about noise and activity levels.

Unfortunately a cycling and pedestrian plan was completely absent. Even though the city boards emphasized "Prioritizing Cycling and Walking" in the Cambie Corridor plan (see section 1.4 of http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/Cambie-Corridor-Plan.pdf ) it was a complete miss from the project team. They talked about a bike-share and a valet bike parking for residents (interesting concepts), but nothing about how the residents would cycle within and outside the development.

The project boards did not indicate any bike paths on the New Street (two reps gave 2 different opinions), and did not show any connectivity to Heather and 45th Ave bikeways (which are adjacent) nor Yukon and Ontario bikeways (which are nearby).

Accessing the Canada Line Station by bike from Heather St is impossible to do safely today. I asked the project reps about this and got a variety of 1980s-ish answers:
- "you can ride down the High Street" - a 50' wide pedestrian mall with sidewalk cafes and shoppers criss-crossing between shops? not safely.
- "you can ride through the mall if it isn't busy"
- "just ride on the sidewalk" I don't even like to walk on that sidewalk with all the low visibility entrances to the pkg lot.
- "what's wrong with the bike lane on 41st Ave?" You mean the bike painted in the middle of the right lane, sharing that lane with a high volume express bus, a local bus route, high speed traffic, and cars turning into and out of the mall? Everything is wrong!

Oakridge is currently an obstacle in the cycling network, diverting N/S traffic on Heather St and blocking safe access to the Canada Line Station. To get to even this early stage of planning with apparently no thought of improving cycling infrastructure, which is one of the top priorities of the corridor plan, is absurd.

I love the idea of providing bike friendly lanes through large developments like this. The project developers should look at this idea and provide great access to bikes, maybe financing it through a bike toll or some other sort of smart financing to recoup the costs of providing such a service. I believe it could be well used, and maybe a first for cycling infrastructure in North America, user pay over private lands.

[city-dweller]

I went Thursday and also found the model helpful. My biggest issue at this point is transit to mall circulation. The connection between the station and the re-development is awful. The current portal has riders exiting the platform level make an abrupt right-turn with on stair case for both up/down and one up-escalator. At the top of stair portal you have to go left or you run into the benches below the mall marquee/sign where people were waiting. There is one elevator that had a line of strollers waiting to use. This was 4pm on a Thursday.

When I brought this to the city and developers attention, they answered that an awning is being planned to cover the outside plaza. I pointed out that his does not have anything to do with circulation. (Every single person I talked to answered: "oh yeah." )

Anyway, the new development is for ~2600 new units so lets say 3000+ new residents + expanded mall + expanded office space and has no plans for incorporating the station into the mall or improving the access to the station. I found this insane. Why would they not try and incorporate a second portal that goes straight to the mall entrance and add an extra elevator. Just image pacific center xmas rush plus the commuters plus the bikes, wheel chairs, and strollers waiting for 1 elevator!!

I ran into some translink folks who were there unofficially. They noted the station platform could be made longer by knocking out the false walls. They also said there had not been any talks about design provisions or any funding allotment from the development!!!

I would hope they would take cues from Pacific Center, Metro Town, and other mall centers when it comes to the design submission.

I can't wait for the Urban Design Panel Session on this one.

[jlousa]

This is still a high level rezoning proposal. A lot of items can and probably will change by the time development permits are issued.

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by city-dweller

I went Thursday and also found the model helpful. My biggest issue at this point is transit to mall circulation. The connection between the station and the re-development is awful.....

I agree with you on this. As I've said before, integration between certain Canada Line stations and their adjacent buildings is horrible.

[jlousa]

I always amazes me how much people on here push for projects just like this one, and then fail to take some time out of their lives to stop by and support the proposals. Anyways for everyone outside the 4 forumers that showed up here are the open house boards. Please note the file is 32MB so it'll take a bit to d/l.

http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/oakrid...eloper-all.pdf

[urbandreamer]

Thanks, has a very West Coast vibe to it.

[Spork]

Looks great. I will definitely try to make it out to the next one. I was initially pretty skeptical, as I prefer a fine street grid to massive developments, but I suppose that this may stimulate the area to eventually get to that point with some further densification.

My only other concern is with access to the rooftop green space. I'm concerned that it will end up like many Condo green spaces that are either severely restricted to the public without mention (e.g. 9am-8pm), or lack clear and compelling access points (e.g. the "hill" at Robson Square) and thus get neglected. It would be interesting to see a massive staircase structure at the transit plaza with the mall entryway built into the middle of such a staircase as such the stairs are the primary focus and the mall entryway is framed by the stairs.

[Zassk]

Interesting tidbit on the storyboards: the "current" Canada Line ridership is listed as being 126,000.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Interesting tidbit on the storyboards: the "current" Canada Line ridership is listed as being 126,000.

That figure is outdated. The latest figure I read, although I can't find where I got it from Translink, is 134,000.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by West22

Went to the Open House at Oakridge Mall today. There were quite a few city people and development team people answering questions. It was fairly busy, with mostly local representation. The model is quite nice and helps to give a better indication of the scale and massing. In the renders I've seen in the online presentation, the towers look shorter due perhaps to the variation in floorplate/balcony size in many of them.

I think it is a pretty bold and progressive plan for this part of Vancouver, and generally supportive. High retail density (~2.5 x the current retail), with 2800+ residential units and only 1300 residential parking spots. I think offering the choice of a unit with good transit connectivity and no parking stall is one good way to increase affordability. My impression is that this option is still rare in Vancouver..

IMHO the 1,300 parking spots for 2,800 units is extremely naive. Yes, yes, I know it's beloved of planners, but its not reflective of reality. Given what the units' price points will be, its very likely owners will want to keep at least one car. The faulty assumption is that 50% of the buyers/renters are going to work downtown or maybe at the airport.

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by whatnext

IMHO the 1,300 parking spots for 2,800 units is extremely naive. Yes, yes, I know it's beloved of planners, but its not reflective of reality. Given what the units' price points will be, its very likely owners will want to keep at least one car. The faulty assumption is that 50% of the buyers/renters are going to work downtown or maybe at the airport.

I think this is going to be the new norm in this city. Bosa also did this on there up coming Burquitlam project

[squeezied]

That might be a good news for us non-ultra-rich-car-loving-mainland-chinese locals who might want to purchase a unit there. I think you'll get a better variety of people in this development instead of being exclusively chinese like you see in new condo developments. Locals here tend to be more open to the idea of letting go their cars.

But I do agree that 1300 parking spots seems very little. Something like 2000 seems more reasonable. Maybe they can get allocate some of the 5300 retail spots towards residential.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by cairnstone

I think this is going to be the new norm in this city. Bosa also did this on there up coming Burquitlam project

Meh, what does the developer care, other than loving the city's gift of reducing their building cost? By the time the parking mayhem ensues, they're out of there.

[s211]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Meh, what does the developer care, other than loving the city's gift of reducing their building cost? By the time the parking mayhem ensues, they're out of there.

Bingo. I know of a brand new condo building where there's insufficient parking and no visitor parking. Tons of signs asking to rent stalls, and people just outright parking in other people's stalls. That and the city won't permit residents of this building to apply for a resident-only on-street parking stall.

Vancouver's going to social-engineer itself into the nation's laughing stock.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Meh, what does the developer care, other than loving the city's gift of reducing their building cost? By the time the parking mayhem ensues, they're out of there.

Uh, they surely do care because they need to sell the units before walking away. It's a free market out there and one assumes that purchasers will be expecting a price break based on what they are not getting.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by squeezied

But I do agree that 1300 parking spots seems very little. Something like 2000 seems more reasonable. Maybe they can get allocate some of the 5300 retail spots towards residential.

I'm sure that they can come up with some way of allowing residents to rent retail parking spots during non-commercial hours. That way you can park your car overnight and during the day when you're at work its used by the mall. It would probably work best with the office building parking because the working hours for that are less than the mall (mall is open till 10pm or so, whereas most office workers would be home by dinner).