PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[hammersklavier]

I agree the Roundhouse is fixable.

I also agree with the poster's sentiment. That part of Center City is grossly underutilized, and the block bounded by 7th, 8th, Arch, and Race is very close to a clean slate.

Inga has a writeup in the Inky: https://www.inquirer.com/columnists/...fT9uj8Hd0X8RwM

My takeaway: The Sixers' planning consultants managed to shoehorn a handful of smart ideas in what is otherwise an awful, awful plan. By attempting to take control of all of Penn's Landing's development sites, the Sixers are attempting to replicate the cardinal mistake every other development proposal has made at the site: They are making their project too big, too ambitious.

Worse still, there is no proof in the pudding. Do the Sixers' ownership group have any development experience? Or are they trying to sell us a bad-faith bill of goods? I suspect the latter. The Union's stadium down in Chester has failed to materialize any redevelopment. A decade after the Civic Arena's demolition, the space remains parking lots and the Penguins have failed to develop anything on the site. When the Ilitch family built Little Caesars Arena in Detroit, they presented a site plan showing extensive ancillary development -- little, if any, of which has subsequently appeared.

Ryan Briggs, at PlanPhilly, has also found the Sixers' proposed financing mechanism questionable: https://whyy.org/articles/sixers-4b-...fT9uj8Hd0X8RwM

So here is the problem the Sixers' ownership group faces. They want a new arena because they want control of a major entertainment venue. But Philadelphia has been very successful in redeveloping its large vacancies over the last two decades, so much so that few remain around Center City. The only major vacant parcel, capable of hosting an arena, that does not have an active development proposal of some sort attached to it appears to be the Disney Hole! Because the Sixers want to own the arena, they are uninterested in leasing space in Schuylkill Yards, or out by the Science Center; and the Disney Hole also suffers because the former Gimbels annex there hosts a large data farm operation IIRC so that thing's going nowhere. The only remaining site that really fits the Sixers' ownership's desires in all of Center City is Penn's Landing's jewel parcel.

So they're trying to strongarm their way into it before it, too, goes off the market.

Don't let them.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

I agree the Roundhouse is fixable.

I also agree with the poster's sentiment. That part of Center City is grossly underutilized, and the block bounded by 7th, 8th, Arch, and Race is very close to a clean slate.

Inga has a writeup in the Inky: https://www.inquirer.com/columnists/...fT9uj8Hd0X8RwM

My takeaway: The Sixers' planning consultants managed to shoehorn a handful of smart ideas in what is otherwise an awful, awful plan. By attempting to take control of all of Penn's Landing's development sites, the Sixers are attempting to replicate the cardinal mistake every other development proposal has made at the site: They are making their project too big, too ambitious.

Worse still, there is no proof in the pudding. Do the Sixers' ownership group have any development experience? Or are they trying to sell us a bad-faith bill of goods? I suspect the latter. The Union's stadium down in Chester has failed to materialize any redevelopment. A decade after the Civic Arena's demolition, the space remains parking lots and the Penguins have failed to develop anything on the site. When the Ilitch family built Little Caesars Arena in Detroit, they presented a site plan showing extensive ancillary development -- little, if any, of which has subsequently appeared.

Ryan Briggs, at PlanPhilly, has also found the Sixers' proposed financing mechanism questionable: https://whyy.org/articles/sixers-4b-...fT9uj8Hd0X8RwM

So here is the problem the Sixers' ownership group faces. They want a new arena because they want control of a major entertainment venue. But Philadelphia has been very successful in redeveloping its large vacancies over the last two decades, so much so that few remain around Center City. The only major vacant parcel, capable of hosting an arena, that does not have an active development proposal of some sort attached to it appears to be the Disney Hole! Because the Sixers want to own the arena, they are uninterested in leasing space in Schuylkill Yards, or out by the Science Center; and the Disney Hole also suffers because the former Gimbels annex there hosts a large data farm operation IIRC so that thing's going nowhere. The only remaining site that really fits the Sixers' ownership's desires in all of Center City is Penn's Landing's jewel parcel.

So they're trying to strongarm their way into it before it, too, goes off the market.

Don't let them.

Very well put.

They need to update/remodel the convention center or use the space along the riverfront Columbus BLVD.

How I see it the owners of the Sixers want a "Madison square garden" type of arena. So they need to figure out the most space in CC with access to everything as well as being smart location wise.

Penns landing is stupid, this isn't a Frank Rizzo Ice skating spot, this is an arena that will attract thousands of people, have they seen what I-95/I-76/Broad st looks like during games, imagine that on an already high traffic area Penns landing. if the city allows them to build there they are stupid, South St/Columbus is already a shitshow on a regular Friday, imagine an event

[Larry King]

I wish people would stop obsessing over traffic. It's a sixers game in center city, people will find a way to get there. We have regional rail 10 blocks away at market east and will have patco at Franklin Square. Not to mention the thousands of Sixer fans that will just walk or uber from their Center City area house/apartment.

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut

So I know this was talked about once on the forum, but does anyone have any idea yet what's going on with 932-934 Arch st? aka the never ending Chinatown overbuild? This project(?) has been going on for years, and I haven't seen any meaningful progress in the last half year or more, not that that's unusual here. Is it stalled/abandoned? Is it even up to code with its weird lack of windows/windows directly facing each other in the window well(?) Do you think they'll apply for more overbuild floors again and one day accidentally meet the criteria for a highrise for this forum?

Per latest permits (they pulled a zoning permit in April of this year), they're going to add 3 more stories to get to 13 floors on Arch and and build 10 stories facing 10th street on a connected parcel. Total of 178 hotel rooms. It's an amazing project really. Seems to all be legal.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by Larry King

I wish people would stop obsessing over traffic. It's a sixers game in center city, people will find a way to get there. We have regional rail 10 blocks away at market east and will have patco at Franklin Square. Not to mention the thousands of Sixer fans that will just walk or uber from their Center City area house/apartment.

Bro I understand its a city, im in the city everyday, but to say Fuck traffic is stupid. We already have the lowest EMS response times in the country, you wanna clog up another area?

besides not everyone is taking the train and uber/lyft already adds more traffic then helps.

im not against the arena, im just saying will the pros outweigh the cons.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

I think you guys are missing out on the real motive of Josh Harris and company. They want Philly to deny them their picked location so they can threaten to move the arena over to the Camden side - next to their new practice facility, where they will get even more insane tax breaks from NJ ... to then use that threat to get whatever they want from Philly. It's how these hedge fund assholes work.

Anyway, as many have said, the best bet is to keep the Sports Complex together, and build up that area into an mixed-use destination. So many of the Philly sports teams season ticket holders are from the burbs, South Jersey, Delaware -- they love to tailgate, to jump on the highway, and go home. That's all they've experienced in their entire Philly sports-fandom (decades!, a few generations now), and that's the way they like it.

Not trying to be stereotypical, but to equate the Philly sports fan (I am a die hard fan) to the "theater crowd" ... what theater crowd guy is running outside to eat horse-shit and climb poles on the streets of CC after a wonderful performance of "Ave Maria"?!?!

^
BINGO!!!!!

[PurpleWhiteOut]

Originally Posted by Larry King

Per latest permits (they pulled a zoning permit in April of this year), they're going to add 3 more stories to get to 13 floors on Arch and and build 10 stories facing 10th street on a connected parcel. Total of 178 hotel rooms. It's an amazing project really. Seems to all be legal.

Interesting. I can't believe this is going to sneak up to 13 floors. I think it was 8 years ago when they started adding I think 5 floors to just 934 Arch, before getting 932 involved.

[SEFTA]

Here's my rant on this arena idea.
Just some examples that have been referenced before.
Pittsburgh's North Shore. Finished about 20 years ago. PNC Park is great. Just across the bridge from Downtown. Best thing about all this development are the massive parks along the waterfront.
The area between the fields has been a long time coming. Slowly being filled with relatively low-rise generic office buildings and hotels.
Even with the addition of a $BILLION light-rail extension tunneled under the river, a new underground station at PNC Park and an over head station at Heinz Field. We won't talk about how they completely ignored the fact that there were existing dense historic neighborhoods struggling to come back just to the North that would have benefited greatly from a light-rail station there.
I lived a few blocks from there. I was hoping for much more residential as the North Side is an amazing historic residential area.
There's an obligatory casino on the far left. The Andy Warhol Museum is on the far right. Still much empty spaces in between. Bad traffic. Tailgating. The new roads have a terrible layout. The Science Center, just to the left of Heinz field was to be added to and redone by Frank Gehry, but...
They were going to extend the road along the river to the circle at PNC Park. You can imagine the traffic nightmare. We had to fight to instead go with a pedestrian promenade and a large lawn. You can see how the road along the river suddenly jogs to the north at Heinz Field away from the water.
The promenade is now lined with popular restaurants and bars.
The waterfront park is very successful, as it connects to a larger waterfront park plan.

Pittsburgh's North Shore

The Miami Arena has been there for a very long time now. They have yet to fulfill the commitment to construct the park surrounding the building. You can see it is random parking and loading. There was a plan for major public spaces and a waterfront. The building is self contained and doesn't interact with the surroundings which really sucks considering the development and improvements being done to Biscayne Boulevard. DESERTED!
Miami Arena

San Francisco's arena also has a problem with interacting. It is basically self contained and little amenities have been constructed around the periphery. DESERTED!
San Francisco Arena

Houston is, of course, in a sea of parking.
Houston Toyota Arena

These arenas are striking and make for nice skyline photos. When there's no event, which is most of the time, they are left with empty windswept plazas.
DESERTED!
NOT ACCEPTABLE!
Red buildings are current proposals.
I want to see a community built around the park. Mixed-use, mostly residential and hotel.
I want to see people in this $BILLION PARK! Basically extending the city grid as. much as possible. Note the reconstruction of streets and public spaces into a continuous green district.
My theory is "GARDEN CITY PHILADELPHIA"
Surrounding Old City and Society Hill but not infiltrating.
Emphasis on connecting old with the new.
Market Street beautified, pedestrian-friendlier. Fountains, public art, pedestrian/tourist attractions & amenities and gathering spaces, landscaped median, tree-lined from Waterfront to Penn Square.
Beautification of Independence Mall as well as 5th & 6th Streets as tree-lined promenades. Water features, reflecting pools, public art.
Front Street transformed into a green promenade with a linear park on the east side of street between highway and street. Korean War Memorial and Vietnam Veteran's Memorial included.
Columbus Blvd becomes a tree-lined "Delaware River Boulevard" public attractions, water features, public art and landscaped planters and medians, protected bike lanes, that eventually will extend from Navy Yard to Fishtown.
Philly is a struggling city. We need to preserve it's history while at the same time exploiting it.
Concentrate all it's efforts into attracting tourism by creating a cohesive tourist district showcasing the old with the new.
YES! TOWERS!
Penn's Landing 8-15-20 x

IF THEY PUT THIS ARENA AT PENN"S LANDING I WILL ACTUALLY CRY!

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut

So I know this was talked about once on the forum, but does anyone have any idea yet what's going on with 932-934 Arch st? aka the never ending Chinatown overbuild? This project(?) has been going on for years, and I haven't seen any meaningful progress in the last half year or more, not that that's unusual here. Is it stalled/abandoned? Is it even up to code with its weird lack of windows/windows directly facing each other in the window well(?) Do you think they'll apply for more overbuild floors again and one day accidentally meet the criteria for a highrise for this forum?

Originally Posted by Larry King

Per latest permits (they pulled a zoning permit in April of this year), they're going to add 3 more stories to get to 13 floors on Arch and and build 10 stories facing 10th street on a connected parcel. Total of 178 hotel rooms. It's an amazing project really. Seems to all be legal.

Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut

Interesting. I can't believe this is going to sneak up to 13 floors. I think it was 8 years ago when they started adding I think 5 floors to just 934 Arch, before getting 932 involved.

This one fascinates the hell out of me, as I find myself staring at it on the regular while waiting on 10th St for the Navy Yard Shuttle. I tried to unwind the chronology before by going through the zoning archive files in atlas, but it remains puzzling.

Note that it's expanded so much in scope over the years — without ever approaching completion — that its address is no longer on Arch St. It's now legally situated around the corner and down the block at 43-49 N 10TH ST.

One thing that gives some hope that there is an eventual end-game here is that the documents from 2019 forward reflect a change of architects, now the very credible Stuart G. Rosenberg.

The best way to try to trace it back to its inception is to examine all the zoning docs PDFs under the following 3 addresses:

https://atlas.phila.gov/#/43-49%20N%2010TH%20ST/li
https://atlas.phila.gov/#/932%20ARCH%20ST/li
https://atlas.phila.gov/#/934%20ARCH%20ST/li

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

So here is the problem the Sixers' ownership group faces. They want a new arena because they want control of a major entertainment venue. But Philadelphia has been very successful in redeveloping its large vacancies over the last two decades, so much so that few remain around Center City. The only major vacant parcel, capable of hosting an arena, that does not have an active development proposal of some sort attached to it appears to be the Disney Hole! Because the Sixers want to own the arena, they are uninterested in leasing space in Schuylkill Yards, or out by the Science Center; and the Disney Hole also suffers because the former Gimbels annex there hosts a large data farm operation IIRC so that thing's going nowhere. The only remaining site that really fits the Sixers' ownership's desires in all of Center City is Penn's Landing's jewel parcel.

So they're trying to strongarm their way into it before it, too, goes off the market.

Don't let them.

I will put it out there that Harris and his gang don't care so much in ownership of a new stadium as much as they are interested in having near total control of the building and all the revenue streams that are available with a building. I think they would be thrilled to turn a deal like the Eagles did with the City where public money was spent, but the public got next to nothing from the deal (Temple football for 5 years or something like that). I also doubt that its a given that NJ would throw money at them for a move to Camden. That practice was part of the past, and for all the money NJ spent, they don't have much increase, if any, tax revenue to show do it. And that funding pool isn't the bottomless pit it once was.
Would Harris try to move the team to north Jersey where they have a empty stadium they might just give him? It's not new and shiny, but if the price was right-----.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

This site is wild wild. So the homeless encampment continues, I literally watched a lady shoot up in her leg next to the Rodin as I snapped these .... $2 mil+ FOR SALE!
Tale of two cities and realities on full display.

2100 Hamilton:

What is the deal with the encampments?... The city received the green light last week to dismantle them.
I've walked by a few times, and its not a group of homeless sleeping in tents, its literally a garbage, drug filled space with aggressive people (I feel bad for the actual homeless because I bet they are used as scapegoats for some odd radical political movement / "protest".)

I've seen some of the organizers and advocates speak publicly and they are nuts to put it lightly...I hope the city can provide services for those who really need help/shelter, but the longer the camp goes on, the more trouble it will be to end it.

But it is ironic (or maybe not since its America) to see $2m+ condos in the background of this encampment.

I do like this project though, but the all glass sheathing is meh, it would be cool to break up the glass with some sort of masonry cladding or even trim (like The Murano).

[eixample]

Originally Posted by SEFTA

Here's my rant on this arena idea.

Great post. Important to compare this to other actually executed arena "development" schemes from other cities.

[cardeza]

can someone unveil the details

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...ladelphia.html

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by cardeza

can someone unveil the details

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...ladelphia.html

It's basically a giant sports bar equipped with ipad's to bet on games online, technically not a casino because you're betting online. Will be in the drexel building at 15th and walnut, the old LA Fitness that was almost an Equinox and has been empty for years. The project is headed by Paul Martino, he's a VC.

[Jayfar]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

What is the deal with the encampments?... The city received the green light last week to dismantle them.

The new deadline announced today is September 9.

Homeless encampment on Parkway must clear by Sept. 9, city announces | Inquirer

[Boku]

Philadelphia-area health systems move forward with major construction projects despite Covid-19 setbacks

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...-covid-19.html

Philadelphia-area health systems are forging forward with construction projects despite Covid-19 smashing hospital revenues and causing construction delays.

[...]

Penn Medicine is continuing construction on its $1.5 billion pavilion. The 1.5-million-square-foot project will have 500 private patient rooms, 47 operating rooms and a 61-room emergency department, and it will open in 2021. The project was delayed for several months because of Covid-19, but it is not too far behind, said Allison Wilson-Maher, Penn Medicine’s vice president of real estate, design and construction.

The work for Penn Medicine doesn’t stop at the pavilion. The health system is putting proton therapy centers on the campuses of Lancaster General Hospital and Virtua Health’s Voorhees, N.J., hospital. Work is also continuing on some existing campuses — including “big plans” for the Penn Presbyterian Medical Center site, which should see a new building in the next five to eight years, she said.

[...]

Jefferson Health is charging ahead with a 19-story ambulatory pavilion at 11th and Chestnut streets. It will serve as a “one-stop shop” for Jefferson in Center City, including ambulatory services, imaging, pharmacy, lab and more, said Clayton Mitchell, Jefferson’s senior vice president of real estate and facilities.

[...]

The health system is moving forward with a 12-story biomedical research facility at 9th and Locust streets in Philadelphia, he said. The project received a $70 million gift from Sidney and Caroline Kimmel. The development however, is still “out a few years,” Mitchell said.

[EastSideHBG]

RE: the arena if done correctly it can work. I have been in DC numerous times during Wizards games and it's added even more vibrancy to the area. And the Delaware riverfront is kind of a wasted opportunity as it is.

But...since we already have an established sports complex area that is still a blank slate for the most part so it may be best just to keep everything there.

Originally Posted by Jawnadelphia

This site is wild wild. So the homeless encampment continues, I literally watched a lady shoot up in her leg next to the Rodin as I snapped these .... $2 mil+ FOR SALE!
Tale of two cities and realities on full display.

Yeah I have seen a lot of nonsense lately and it's not a good look.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by Larry King

It's basically a giant sports bar equipped with ipad's to bet on games online, technically not a casino because you're betting online. Will be in the drexel building at 15th and walnut, the old LA Fitness that was almost an Equinox and has been empty for years. The project is headed by Paul Martino, he's a VC.

Not that retail is doing well anywhere, but I always had hopes this space would eventually land a high-end retail tenant.

And I know some think the Equinox rumor at The Laurel is just a rumor, according to a friend of mine, the brand is actively pursuing that location as of April 2020.

[rb233541]

Agreed. In my wildest fantasies, the Drexel building could be a great space for one of those big Restoration Hardware gallery stores with restaurant/event space.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Boku

Philadelphia-area health systems move forward with major construction projects despite Covid-19 setbacks

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...-covid-19.html

Is the Jefferson project they’re referencing the East Market tower? If so, isn’t it supposed to be about 30 floors?