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  #10821  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2018, 12:43 PM
jmj jmj is offline
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^agreed. The biggest problem on Market street is what is ACROSS from the FDP, not the cladding on the mall. The 900 and 1000 blocks are terrible and that is far more concerning than any material choices on the FDP. As noted before (but I suppose ignored by those who have actually not ventured over there) the underpass areas are a HUGE improvement over what was there. New ceilings, raised pedestrian crosswalks, new LED lights, sidewalks, benches and of course all the new glass allowing you to peer into the mall from 9th, 10th and 11th.
     
     
  #10822  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2018, 2:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jmj View Post
^agreed. The biggest problem on Market street is what is ACROSS from the FDP, not the cladding on the mall. The 900 and 1000 blocks are terrible and that is far more concerning than any material choices on the FDP. As noted before (but I suppose ignored by those who have actually not ventured over there) the underpass areas are a HUGE improvement over what was there. New ceilings, raised pedestrian crosswalks, new LED lights, sidewalks, benches and of course all the new glass allowing you to peer into the mall from 9th, 10th and 11th.
I might be wrong but I thought I remembered hearing that PREIT owns all the buildings on the south side of Market between 10th and 11th.

If that's indeed true, I don't think it will take long before there is an improvement on that stretch. That would leave only half a block of truly horrible crap on east market.

Did I hear that right?

Last edited by Redddog; Aug 30, 2018 at 2:29 PM.
     
     
  #10823  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2018, 2:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
I might be wrong but I thought I remembered hearing that PREIT owns all the buildings on the south side of Market between 10th and 11th.

If that's indeed true, I don't think it will take long before there is an improvement on that stretch. That would leave only half a block of truly horrible crap on east market.

Did I hear that right?
Not all, but a few contiguous properties in the middle of the south side of the block are owned by PREIT.
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  #10824  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2018, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by eixample View Post
sure there are a jumble of materials and they may not all look high end but with digital signage and store windows to draw people's attention I don't think anyone will complain.
Indeed, visual "clutter" (and I don't necessarily mean that in a negative sense) is very effective camouflage. Just ask Times Square. A lot of buildings and materials around there are nothing to write home about.
     
     
  #10825  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2018, 3:54 PM
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^

The rail shed looks nothing short of awesome.
I was in the shed about 4 months ago and it is special, it could end up being a special place. But the addition on Board St. was designed pretty ham handed on the exterior, it doesn't show much sensitivity or respect to the shed. But-----to cover my butt, it could have been worse.
     
     
  #10826  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2018, 4:45 PM
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This has to be one of the more elegant loading docks in the city.

Does the retail area of the Sprouts extend into the majority of the shed, or is it mostly used for backstock? Have not walked by that area since the Sprouts started going up.
     
     
  #10827  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2018, 5:12 PM
Londonee Londonee is offline
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Anyone remember/hear about what the latest with the development at the old PHA offices at 2012 Chestnut Street? They selected Alterra to redevelop the site back in 2016, but it has been crickets. And Alterra generally moves pretty quickly once they are given the go-ahead. That building is a collapsing, rusted-out, derelict eyesore that really hurts that block.

http://www.pha.phila.gov/pha-news/ph...ters-site.aspx
     
     
  #10828  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2018, 8:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
Anyone remember/hear about what the latest with the development at the old PHA offices at 2012 Chestnut Street? They selected Alterra to redevelop the site back in 2016, but it has been crickets. And Alterra generally moves pretty quickly once they are given the go-ahead. That building is a collapsing, rusted-out, derelict eyesore that really hurts that block.

http://www.pha.phila.gov/pha-news/ph...ters-site.aspx
Good question. They're still accruing new violations in recent months and they've had a demo permit for over a year.

https://atlas.phila.gov/#/2012%20CHESTNUT%20ST/li
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  #10829  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2018, 8:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jmj View Post
^agreed. The biggest problem on Market street is what is ACROSS from the FDP, not the cladding on the mall. The 900 and 1000 blocks are terrible and that is far more concerning than any material choices on the FDP.
Actually we don't appear to be in agreement because I don't think the 900 and 1000 blocks of Market are really bad at all from the perspective of the actual buildings. The spaces need to be all filled, the facades cleaned, repaired or restored as need be and the tenants need to be improved somewhat (this doesn't need to be high end but we need a mix) but we don't have to tear down the buildings to get there. The retail situation should start improving once the Fashion Districts project concludes. There is also a problem with the crowd that hangs around the 900 and 1000 blocks due to an opiod clinic I believe but that is not the fault of the actual buildings. PREIT is probably just keeping it looking like shit so it can make a better case for state incentives when it proposes some unneeded full block projects in 10 years. In the long run, I worry far more about the deadening effect of the federal court buildings on Market, the Disney Hole lot and the Jefferson blocks on Chestnut then a few dingy retail strips.
     
     
  #10830  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2018, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by eixample View Post
Actually we don't appear to be in agreement because I don't think the 900 and 1000 blocks of Market are really bad at all from the perspective of the actual buildings. The spaces need to be all filled, the facades cleaned, repaired or restored as need be and the tenants need to be improved somewhat (this doesn't need to be high end but we need a mix) but we don't have to tear down the buildings to get there. The retail situation should start improving once the Fashion Districts project concludes. There is also a problem with the crowd that hangs around the 900 and 1000 blocks due to an opiod clinic I believe but that is not the fault of the actual buildings. PREIT is probably just keeping it looking like shit so it can make a better case for state incentives when it proposes some unneeded full block projects in 10 years. In the long run, I worry far more about the deadening effect of the federal court buildings on Market, the Disney Hole lot and the Jefferson blocks on Chestnut then a few dingy retail strips.
some are OK, many need to be leveled and replaced with taller buildings. You do realize there are some one and two story buildings on the south side of Market between 9th and 11th. There is a Western Union a 7-11 and other garbage that needs to go. I want to see several of those parcels combined and a large mixed use building constructed. The crowd will go away once you fix the physical surroundings. PREIT is probably just holding the properties they purchased to flip them later.
     
     
  #10831  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2018, 5:34 PM
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Man, I miss Philly. That Sprouts apartment building is killing me softly (i.e. it looks bad) but man, there's so many cool things and regeneration happening. OK. That's my only contribution right now. Wish it was more!
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  #10832  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2018, 10:35 PM
eixample eixample is offline
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Originally Posted by jmj View Post
some are OK, many need to be leveled and replaced with taller buildings. You do realize there are some one and two story buildings on the south side of Market between 9th and 11th. There is a Western Union a 7-11 and other garbage that needs to go. I want to see several of those parcels combined and a large mixed use building constructed. The crowd will go away once you fix the physical surroundings. PREIT is probably just holding the properties they purchased to flip them later.
Okay, I will give you that we need more apartment and office density in this area and the south side of 900 and 100 blocks of Market aren't giving us any of that. I would just rather it come to the empty lots on Market and Chestnut first before tearing down productive one and two story retail. And I think having a mix of that kind of small-format retail is essential for any downtown so I don't want it to all go away.
     
     
  #10833  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2018, 2:45 AM
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Originally Posted by eixample View Post
Okay, I will give you that we need more apartment and office density in this area and the south side of 900 and 100 blocks of Market aren't giving us any of that. I would just rather it come to the empty lots on Market and Chestnut first before tearing down productive one and two story retail. And I think having a mix of that kind of small-format retail is essential for any downtown so I don't want it to all go away.
Some of the handsome buildings just west of 7th on the south side of market appear to be getting work done (scaffolding out front) and there’s signage about apartments. It’s a big building too and that sort of life there would be huge to the whole stretch from Independence Mall and City Hall, while still keeping the character of the area.
     
     
  #10834  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by El Duderino View Post
Some of the handsome buildings just west of 7th on the south side of market appear to be getting work done (scaffolding out front) and there’s signage about apartments. It’s a big building too and that sort of life there would be huge to the whole stretch from Independence Mall and City Hall, while still keeping the character of the area.
Which building(s)? Can you "walk through" and paste in? If you paste a link in of what's viewable on google streetview on your browser, we will see the building. https://www.google.com/maps/place/70....1524646?hl=en The one I have pictured is getting a courthouse tenant, which is moving from this building on North Broad: https://www.google.com/maps/place/10....1632357?hl=en

As to the following one, the apartment sign has been there forever, but I see no evidence that anything was getting done... https://www.google.com/maps/place/70....1524646?hl=en Hope that's now changed!
     
     
  #10835  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 1:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
Which building(s)? Can you "walk through" and paste in? If you paste a link in of what's viewable on google streetview on your browser, we will see the building. https://www.google.com/maps/place/70....1524646?hl=en The one I have pictured is getting a courthouse tenant, which is moving from this building on North Broad: https://www.google.com/maps/place/10....1632357?hl=en

As to the following one, the apartment sign has been there forever, but I see no evidence that anything was getting done... https://www.google.com/maps/place/70....1524646?hl=en Hope that's now changed!
I was referring to 714 Market, the large red building opposite from Lit Bros that’s visible in the Google Maps link you posted (also seems to include the row house with the columns to the immediate west). Some recent permits have been pulled for mechanical and plumbing and there is scaffolding at ground level, as well as some new plywood covering the existing entrance. Hopefully this moves since it would be awesome having some additional residential/mixed-use around this stretch.
     
     
  #10836  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 1:53 PM
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Originally Posted by El Duderino View Post
I was referring to 714 Market, the large red building opposite from Lit Bros that’s visible in the Google Maps link you posted (also seems to include the row house with the columns to the immediate west). Some recent permits have been pulled for mechanical and plumbing and there is scaffolding at ground level, as well as some new plywood covering the existing entrance. Hopefully this moves since it would be awesome having some additional residential/mixed-use around this stretch.
Totally. Those buildings have the capacity and character to warrant investment. That is definitely a dead zone (though not to the extent of 900 and 1000 block). Renovations and cool tenants would be great there and would really only leave disneyhole and 9 &10 blocks to need work.

Living in old city, while there continues to be quality restaurants pop up off of market, market Street from 2nd to 4th has filled in with fast food garbage and is essentially a shitty food court.

When AT&T took the prime corner @ 3rd and market, I knew it was over for that stretch. It's depressing.
     
     
  #10837  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2018, 3:46 PM
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Living in old city, while there continues to be quality restaurants pop up off of market, market Street from 2nd to 4th has filled in with fast food garbage and is essentially a shitty food court.
That is harsh. While there are a few touristy places in that stretch, there is also a bakery, middle eastern Cafe, high quality art store, Indian restaurant, that Fork place, a CVS (not exciting but useful). That is just off the top of my head. I wouldn't mind living near those stores/restaurants!
     
     
  #10838  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2018, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
Totally. Those buildings have the capacity and character to warrant investment. That is definitely a dead zone (though not to the extent of 900 and 1000 block). Renovations and cool tenants would be great there and would really only leave disneyhole and 9 &10 blocks to need work.

Living in old city, while there continues to be quality restaurants pop up off of market, market Street from 2nd to 4th has filled in with fast food garbage and is essentially a shitty food court.

When AT&T took the prime corner @ 3rd and market, I knew it was over for that stretch. It's depressing.
chains and cell stores can pay the rents. No one should be surprised. Start up restaurants and local purveyors often can't pay rents in "hot" areas.
     
     
  #10839  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2018, 2:15 PM
Justin7 Justin7 is offline
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Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
Living in old city, while there continues to be quality restaurants pop up off of market, market Street from 2nd to 4th has filled in with fast food garbage and is essentially a shitty food court.
Yeah, not getting this at all. 2nd to 3rd has probably gone down hill some, but what specifically are you talking about?
     
     
  #10840  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2018, 3:39 PM
nemesisinphilly nemesisinphilly is offline
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As to the following one, the apartment sign has been there forever, but I see no evidence that anything was getting done... https://www.google.com/maps/place/70....1524646?hl=en Hope that's now changed!
This building(Thomas Lofts) is fully leased and has been for a few years now. It just looks bad from the outside. They were putting in some amenities in the basement(gym etc) but that was completed earlier this year. Not sure what the plans are, if any, for the exterior.
     
     
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