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  #21  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2020, 4:02 PM
Ineffable Ineffable is offline
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Its never been a problem in chicago. Outdoor dining is huge.
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  #22  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2020, 4:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
Seeing the examples on the SF Chronicle, some of these are indeed pretty hideous:

Pretty makeshift-looking.
This literally defeats the purpose.
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  #23  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2020, 4:35 PM
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Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
Some places with nicer outdoor seating areas that come to mind, although most of these are in "backyard" patios or rooftops. I think with a little more time, planning, and money, the street side dining aesthetics can be just as nice.

This is one of my favorite places in SF. It's a shame that there aren't more outdoor terraces/rooftops in that city.
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  #24  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2020, 6:07 PM
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Were sidewalk & roadway patios not common in San Francisco pre-pandemic or something?

The concept is nothing new, they've only been expanded and regulations loosened out of current necessity everywhere - which will hopefully become lasting changes.

There a lot of new "pandemic patios" spilling into the street in Toronto (basically any restaurant whether or not they already have one is eligible provided there's sufficient road space), which are mostly pretty utilitarian and ugly - big orange pylons that've been hastily thrown up. But as more of them become permanent expect to see better designs. In the meantime though they've been lifelines for struggling restaurants and have brought some much-needed vitality back to the streets.



https://www.blogto.com/slideshows/be...-toronto/17496


The permanent ones that were already existing pre-Covid don't look so bad:


https://www.blogto.com/slideshows/be...-toronto/17496
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  #25  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2020, 6:38 PM
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There's plenty of restaurants with outdoor seating in SF, but they're usually relegated to sidewalks or patios. Dining on the street is much less common.
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  #26  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2020, 6:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
There a lot of new "pandemic patios" spilling into the street in Toronto (basically any restaurant whether or not they already have one is eligible provided there's sufficient road space), which are mostly pretty utilitarian and ugly - big orange pylons that've been hastily thrown up. But as more of them become permanent expect to see better designs. In the meantime though they've been lifelines for struggling restaurants and have brought some much-needed vitality back to the streets.
This is my thought as well. This may be one of the few silver linings of COVID-19, where street lanes are narrowed in favor of a more inviting pedestrian and outdoor dining environment.
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  #27  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2020, 7:59 PM
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The reason SF's homeless seem to be such a problem is that the vast, vast majority of them are completely unsheltered--literally living on the streets--whereas most other US cities' homeless are mostly sheltered. Anyway, I ate outdoors whenever possible before COVID-19, and as soon as I feel safe, I'll do it again, even in my hometown of SF.
The reasons so many of SF's homeless are "unsheltered" are endlessly debated and too complicated to debate in this thread but it isn't because the city doesn't spend money and put an effort into trying to "shelter" them. And COVID has made homeless shelters death traps. Any city still using mass shelters as opposed to individual rooms is asking for catastrophe.

Quote:
To balance the budget, [Mayor] Breed is counting on voters approving a business tax reform measure on the Nov. 3 ballot that would unlock tax revenues tied up in litigation over two voter-approved initiatives from 2018 that aimed to help the homeless and mentally ill.

The measure would also infuse about $300 million into the general fund.

Funding from November’s $487.5 million “Health and Recovery” bond would also contribute to Breed’s efforts around homelessness and mental health.

“We need housing. Lots of housing,” Breed said. “That’s why this budget funds 1,500 new units of supportive housing, which is part of our Homeless Recovery Plan to move 4,500 people from hotels, shelters and the street into housing in the next two years.”

The funding will also help The City make progress toward implementing Mental Health SF, a reform of San Francisco’s behavioral health system that was approved last year by the Board of Supervisors.

The plan includes adding more mental health beds as well as expanding staffing and services at The City’s Behavioral Health Access Center, where people are connected to programs. The budget also would fund piloting special teams of paramedics, clinicians and behavioral health peers to respond to non-emergency 911 or 311 calls.
https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/bree...san-francisco/

More mental health beds will also help with the homeless problem because so many of them are mentally ill.

Finally, the city recently settled a lawsuit brought by, among others, UC's Hastings School of the Law which sits on the fringe of the Tenderloin surrounded by the worst of the tent cities and drug bazaars. The city agreed to move 70% of those in the Tenderloininto hotel rooms and from my observation seems to have done so or at least there seems a big improvement in the affected area (though with some aggravation of it in nearby areas). Now other neighbrohoods are looking into their own suits.

This is an ongoing and never-ending fact of San Francisco life. Meanwhile, it does affect the viability of outdoor dining, no question. And so does the fact that SF is a city that often has little or no actual summer weather. Today in early August, in early afternoon, it's 70 degrees F and the "marine layer" (aka fog) has yet to lift.
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  #28  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2020, 8:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
Were sidewalk & roadway patios not common in San Francisco pre-pandemic or something?
They were common enough with many looking just like your photos but now they are the ONLY option for restaurants that want to avoid complete closure (indoor dining is banned) and so are proliferating all over town. And because these new ones are both hurriedly-established and temporary, they can look much less inviting.
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  #29  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2020, 9:18 PM
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Not to take away from the topic of this thread but last week The Onion came out with a spoof article on how LA has designated the median of the 101 Freeway as open-air dining areas:

From The Onion:

L.A. Designates Open-Air Dining Areas Along 101 Freeway Median

7/28/20 11:19AM

LOS ANGELES—In an effort to provide residents with a way to more safely patronize restaurants without fear of contracting Covid-19, Los Angeles officials announced a new initiative Tuesday to designate open-air dining areas along the 101 freeway median. “We’re thrilled to take this bold step to give Angelinos a chance to dine while enjoying the sights and sounds of the iconic L.A. stretch of interstate highway,” said Mayor Eric Garcetti, telling reporters that the designated sections would be spaced out at socially distant intervals and minimize contact with servers by keeping restaurant staff on the opposite side of the road until they needed to dash across three lanes of traffic to take orders and serve food. “This will provide much-needed economic relief to local restaurants and give L.A. residents a chance to get out of their homes and enjoy some of the best cuisine in the country in a safe and responsible way.” At press time, Garcetti had placed the initiative on a temporary pause after a 10-car pileup caused widespread delays to brunch orders.

Link: https://www.theonion.com/l-a-designa...way-1844531667

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  #30  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2020, 9:36 PM
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^^The Onion causes me to ROTFL as usual.

Meanwhile:

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Some of SF’s most popular restaurants are turning away diners as coronavirus cases surge
Justin Phillips July 31, 2020 Updated: Aug. 3, 2020 9:06 a.m.

At a time when restaurants in the Bay Area are struggling to generate revenue, some of San Francisco’s most celebrated chefs and restaurant owners are doing what previously might have been unthinkable: telling diners to stay away.

Some restaurants are limiting outdoor seating further than required by shelter-in-place orders and turning away countless patio customers as a result. Others are opting to take less money by running as nonprofits. It’s a complicated stance to take as the restaurant industry crumbles, yet in their eyes, it’s a necessary one as coronavirus cases spike across the state.

But turning away dollars, be it through choosing not to expand takeout options or venture into outdoor dining, isn’t without consequences. Some of San Francisco’s best restaurants say they are inching closer to the prospect of permanently closing.

Mourad Lahlou has kept his Michelin-starred Mourad closed during the pandemic and has offered only limited takeout service at his other restaurant, Aziza. All the while, bills are piling up for both locations, investor money has run dry, and rent still needs to be paid, he said.

“I’m broke as f—,” said Lahlou, who canceled his honeymoon this year because of the steep drop in revenue at his restaurants . . . . "I just don’t want to die, and I don’t want other people to die simply to make some money” . . . .

Sharon Ardiana, the chef-owner of local Italian restaurants Gialina, Ardiana and Ragazza, is selling pizzas and salads to go but declined to offer outdoor dining at Ragazza, even though it has a gazebo in back . . . . to do so would mean diners would have to walk through the restaurant to get to it, and her rule since the start of the pandemic has been to limit access to the interior of the restaurant to staff.

A more significant reason for keeping the outdoor area of Ragazza off limits, though, is the thought of her staff having to be what she calls “mask police,” Ardiana said.

“I don’t want to have to argue with someone over their need to point out that they’re sitting outside so they’re allowed to not have a mask on. There are other diners around, and my employees, that I have to worry about,” she said. “People are funny because right now, they really don’t want to be told what to do. I don’t want to have be anyone’s mother. But I can’t help but worry about people.”

San Francisco’s only Guamanian restaurant, Prubechu, moved its Mission District dining room outdoors in June when the city approved such operations. But it’s choosing to serve half the number of diners it’s technically allowed to serve, even while following social distancing protocols. “Doubling our capacity would financially bring us where we need to be, but we don’t want to be a catalyst for the spread of the virus. ... We have to protect our diners from themselves, in some ways” . . . .
https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/art...t-15447783.php
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  #31  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2020, 11:20 PM
Ineffable Ineffable is offline
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
The reasons so many of SF's homeless are "unsheltered" are endlessly debated and too complicated to debate in this thread but it isn't because the city doesn't spend money and put an effort into trying to "shelter" them. And COVID has made homeless shelters death traps. Any city still using mass shelters as opposed to individual rooms is asking for catastrophe.


https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/bree...san-francisco/

More mental health beds will also help with the homeless problem because so many of them are mentally ill.

Finally, the city recently settled a lawsuit brought by, among others, UC's Hastings School of the Law which sits on the fringe of the Tenderloin surrounded by the worst of the tent cities and drug bazaars. The city agreed to move 70% of those in the Tenderloininto hotel rooms and from my observation seems to have done so or at least there seems a big improvement in the affected area (though with some aggravation of it in nearby areas). Now other neighbrohoods are looking into their own suits.

This is an ongoing and never-ending fact of San Francisco life. Meanwhile, it does affect the viability of outdoor dining, no question. And so does the fact that SF is a city that often has little or no actual summer weather. Today in early August, in early afternoon, it's 70 degrees F and the "marine layer" (aka fog) has yet to lift.
The solution to the problem is forced institutionalism. That sort of thing was killed off in the 80s though.
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  #32  
Old Posted Aug 4, 2020, 11:26 PM
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The solution to the problem is forced institutionalism. That sort of thing was killed off in the 80s though.
I agree with you--strongly. And CA has a law: The Mental Health Conservatorship - https://www.scscourt.org/self_help/p...ship_lps.shtml

But in liberal, lasissez-faire San Francisco, nobody wants to use it, especially government.
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  #33  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2020, 3:31 AM
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This has been happening on a somewhat elevated level in Austin for the last few years, along Congress avenue downtown. Although it's a bit better of a situation because there is angled parking that is a bit more out of the way from the flow of regular traffic, but still it's turning out pretty nice. Here's a link to some examples:

https://austin.towers.net/congress-a...mation-mapped/
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  #34  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2020, 4:25 AM
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
Manhattan Beach has done a great great job with outdoor setups as well. Pasadena too. The outdoor seating really slows streets down and let's people enjoy
Huntington Beach as well. You can see Main st completely blocked off at 23:45

Video Link
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  #35  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2020, 5:06 AM
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Huntington Beach as well. You can see Main st completely blocked off at 23:45

Video Link
Looks nice, but holy crap are there a ton of people not wearing masks...
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  #36  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2020, 12:23 PM
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Looks nice, but holy crap are there a ton of people not wearing masks...
I imagine Orange County to be an enclave of anti-mask Karens.
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  #37  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2020, 2:41 PM
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Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
Looks nice, but holy crap are there a ton of people not wearing masks...
That explains why California's infection spread still is out of control.
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  #38  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2020, 8:54 PM
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Homelessness crisis leads San Francisco restaurant to serve diners in geodesic domes
Janelle Bitker Aug. 6, 2020 Updated: Aug. 6, 2020 1:43 p.m.

For struggling restaurants, adding outdoor dining means facing a variety of elements on San Francisco streets — including the impact of the homelessness crisis that’s only worsened during the pandemic. In the case of one fine dining restaurant, it means enclosing diners in transparent geodesic domes on the plaza in front of its doors.

On Wednesday, Hashiri, a Michelin-starred Japanese restaurant, began seating diners inside these domes — structures covered in plastic that are sometimes employed by rooftop bars during winter in New York or Chicago known as garden igloos — for a $200-per-person kaiseki and omakase sushi dinner.

Hashiri attempted to seat diners outside once before during the pandemic, but manager Kenichiro Matsuura said the setting didn’t make it feasible. Hashiri is located in Mint Plaza, an area near Fifth and Mission streets where homeless people often congregate . . . .


https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/art...o-15464909.php
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  #39  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2020, 8:56 PM
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I imagine Orange County to be an enclave of anti-mask Karens.
Your imagination has nailed it. Orange County is where the citizenry is demanding school be reopened without masks.
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  #40  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2020, 9:20 PM
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Orange county is the asshole of California
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