Portage and Main Proposals ideas - Page 13

esquire · #**241** Posted **Oct 29, 2020, 12:29 PM**

^ I like the idea re: reworking Confusion Corner. It would be great to see it evolve beyond the current outdated 1960s format imposed by Metro Winnipeg and have it become a true nexus between Osborne and Corydon.

GarryEllice · #**242** Posted **Oct 29, 2020, 10:19 PM**

So the proposed transit hub at Portage & Main is not as difficult as it sounds. If the transitways are positioned on the east side of Main and the north side of Portage, all of the transfers can be done right at the Richardson plaza, with no need to cross the intersection at all. So we can have an RT hub at Portage & Main without even opening the intersection to pedestrians. A picture is worth a thousand words (click to enlarge):

This is not meant as a fantasy of what I would like to see, so please don't chime in with your tunnels and elevated guideways.

I'm trying to realistically interpret what could actually be possible, within the parameters in the master plan.

Yes, the buses are driving on the left rather than the right -- this is how it's shown in the master plan, too (see image below). Running the buses the "wrong way" allows a single centre platform to serve both directions, which makes more efficient use of space and is also more convenient for transfers.

oaktom · #**243** Posted **Oct 31, 2020, 4:15 AM**

hello GarryEllice user: your diagram is a amazing idea i hope you can get you visions to be come a real thing. i was think the same thing a few days a go it should be to hard to have hub at portage and main.

buzzg · #**244** Posted **Oct 31, 2020, 3:44 PM**

I def think it's a decent option GarryEllice, simple. I think the problem here is whether that size of a median platform would be able to handle the volume of traffic there's going to be there – and I don't think it could.

It's something I've been wondering about all these plans where the busway has a centre platform – they all show narrow platforms with no shelters. If transit's plan is to build out this network with no shelters on the busiest routes, I think it would be a colossal misstep.

GarryEllice · #**245** Posted **Oct 31, 2020, 4:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzg

I def think it's a decent option GarryEllice, simple. I think the problem here is whether that size of a median platform would be able to handle the volume of traffic there's going to be there – and I don't think it could.

It's something I've been wondering about all these plans where the busway has a centre platform – they all show narrow platforms with no shelters. If transit's plan is to build out this network with no shelters on the busiest routes, I think it would be a colossal misstep.

Yeah, it is hard to see how an island platform could accommodate an enclosed shelter, but there could always be a shelter on the sidewalk. At P&M in particular, the Richardson plaza has tons of space for a nice heated waiting room and information centre. Although I'm not sure if Richardson would be enthusiastic to have their plaza transformed into a bus station.

I agree that platforms in an on-street ROW don't provide a lot of space, but that does seem to be the plan, going by their rendering of Union Station (which in their own words is the central hub of the whole system).

dam_well · #**246** Posted **Oct 31, 2020, 7:34 PM**

I guess if there are going to be busses every 5 minutes people wouldn't be waiting in the cold for that long. Still would be nice to have shelters though.

esquire · #**247** Posted **Nov 1, 2020, 4:05 PM**

Obviously not quite as helpful in a climate like ours, but in Europe you often see these types of shelters in very narrow spaces. Not 100% ideal but at least they would provide protection from rain and at least some protection from the wind?

buzzg · #**248** Posted **Nov 1, 2020, 4:46 PM**

Yeah you can see those^ kinds in the renderings. It's what's at NB Harkness right now too. Handy in Vancouver, nearly useless here.

plrh · #**249** Posted **Nov 2, 2020, 4:20 AM**

They have those enclosures in Minneapolis, with heat lamps. They are a fair bit better than nothing.

esquire · #**250** Posted **Nov 2, 2020, 1:05 PM**

Especially if that's all that there's room for.

buzzg · #**251** Posted **Nov 2, 2020, 5:39 PM**

If that's the case, it'd be smart to put shelters on the sidewalk with digital signage so you can comfortably wait, then go to the platform when bus is near. There's lots of room in that Union Station rendering.

joshlemer · #**252** Posted **Nov 3, 2020, 4:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GarryEllice

Heh, almost certainly this will be a lot more disruptive to car traffic than the 30 seconds wait for pedestrians to cross the road.

I wonder, where will cyclists ride? Currently the bus lane on Main street northbound at least, doubles as a "Bike Lane" if I remember correctly. I guess cyclists will probably have a very hard time going through this intersection if car traffic is squeezed into 3 lanes each way and there's no dedicated space for cyclists.

Don't get me wrong, your rendering would be amazing. And P&M is already pretty much deadly for cyclists as it is now.

joshlemer · #**253** Posted **Nov 3, 2020, 4:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshlemer

I guess cyclists will probably have a very hard time going through this intersection if car traffic is squeezed into 3 lanes each way

Or maybe it will be better. By my logic above you'd also conclude riding on Albert street would be a death trap since all the traffic is "squeezed" into one lane each way. With less lanes, there could be an inverse induced demand effect, and slower speeds, and we end up with a less intimidating intersection for cyclists.

🌳🌱🌿🌴🍁 · #**254** Posted **Nov 7, 2020, 7:48 PM**

More photos from Library and Archives Canada collection. General thread: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...postcount=2975

http://bac-lac.gc.ca

Wpg_Guy · #**255** Posted **Dec 23, 2020, 8:32 PM**

Mikael Colville-Andersen, the Canadian-Danish urban designer and TV series host of Life-Sized Cities gave Winnipeg and Portage and Main an honorable mention in his 61 Stupid Laws in Urbanism at #51 (time stamp 20:15).