[St. John's] The Official Project Thread

[goodgrowth]

Council approves 74-unit townhouse development for Blackmarsh Road in St. John's

https://www.saltwire.com/newfoundlan...hns-100860727/

Judging by the map and surrounding housing it seems hard to believe they will fit 74 units there....must be relatively dense townhouses...

[rthomasd]

I think there's two areas, the triangle area with 30-odd units and there's another area at the
end of Westview Ave for another 40-odd units. The map on the council agenda doesn't
show the second area, just the street placement. The Westview area was the old cow pasture with
lots of rock outcrop as you head down towards the Crosstown arterial and the power corridor.

The other units in that area are quad-plex buildings, these new ones look to be the traditional
row-house units.

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by rthomasd

I think there's two areas, the triangle area with 30-odd units and there's another area at the
end of Westview Ave for another 40-odd units. The map on the council agenda doesn't
show the second area, just the street placement. The Westview area was the old cow pasture with
lots of rock outcrop as you head down towards the Crosstown arterial and the power corridor.

The other units in that area are quad-plex buildings, these new ones look to be the traditional
row-house units.

ahhh that makes sense. Because if you quickly eyeball it that area looks like it would hold around ~30 townhouses. I couldn't figure out how they'd get over double that in there.

Jamie Korab's reasoning for voting against it is basically the prime example of why nimbyism creates housing issues.

“As a whole, it may be something that is good for the city because it is infill that stops urban sprawl. For me, as a Ward 3 resident, those 10 residents and at least 10 or more that I talked to directly had said, ‘This is not something we want in our area.’”

[crackiedog]

Monday morning musings:

Watched the first 2 episodes of East Harbour Heroes last night, on the Discovery Channel. The show provides a really different viewpoint of downtown St. John's, especially the west end, with all the camera angles from the Oceanex Terminal. Looks pretty good but also makes one think how much better it could look with even more densification down there.

On my recent trip home, I noticed that the downtown does not seem quite as busy as the last time I was home pre-pandemic. I know part of the reason is people still working from home but I was told that a lot of the big companies have moved their offices out of downtown. Noticed the Exxon/Mobile office out in the Torbay Rd-Stavanger Drive area as well as a couple of other large office buildings housing Verafin. The Kelsey Drive area also seemed to be build up with a number of smaller office buildings. I'm sure there is an attraction for companies to locate/relocate to these areas - lower rental rates, ease of commuting but it's too bad they couldn't be convinced to be in the downtown area. I know in Ontario some of the cities have/had programs in place to provide incentives for downtown development such as development fee rebates, limits on office space approval outside the core if downtown vacancy rates reach a certain threshold and property tax reductions. I wonder if the city of St. John's has ever considered these kinds of incentives.

[goodgrowth]

Incentives are irrelevant if the area is overwhelmingly resistant to development.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by crackiedog

Monday morning musings:

Watched the first 2 episodes of East Harbour Heroes last night, on the Discovery Channel. The show provides a really different viewpoint of downtown St. John's, especially the west end, with all the camera angles from the Oceanex Terminal. Looks pretty good but also makes one think how much better it could look with even more densification down there.

On my recent trip home, I noticed that the downtown does not seem quite as busy as the last time I was home pre-pandemic. I know part of the reason is people still working from home but I was told that a lot of the big companies have moved their offices out of downtown. Noticed the Exxon/Mobile office out in the Torbay Rd-Stavanger Drive area as well as a couple of other large office buildings housing Verafin. The Kelsey Drive area also seemed to be build up with a number of smaller office buildings. I'm sure there is an attraction for companies to locate/relocate to these areas - lower rental rates, ease of commuting but it's too bad they couldn't be convinced to be in the downtown area. I know in Ontario some of the cities have/had programs in place to provide incentives for downtown development such as development fee rebates, limits on office space approval outside the core if downtown vacancy rates reach a certain threshold and property tax reductions. I wonder if the city of St. John's has ever considered these kinds of incentives.

With the exception of the summer months when locals are incentivized to visit and spend time downtown, it's pretty dead. Parking and accessibility is much better at new office developments in places like Kelsey Drive so there's been a mass exodus. I imagine heritage limitations make renovations of the older properties more challenging as well.

[jjavman]

Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly

With the exception of the summer months when locals are incentivized to visit and spend time downtown, it's pretty dead. Parking and accessibility is much better at new office developments in places like Kelsey Drive so there's been a mass exodus. I imagine heritage limitations make renovations of the older properties more challenging as well.

St. John's needs someone at City Hall that is pro-development downtown.
Downtown is currently treated as a museum of mostly early 20th century buildings. Most progressive cities have an acceptable mix of heritage and vibrant business. Baltimore/Philadelphia/Boston and Montreal come to mind.
Even Halifax has surpassed us in leaps and bounds, if only for it's imaginative
harbourside developments.

Without a definite policy/plan for downtown, it will continue to decay, and corporations continue to build plants in the periphery, where there is little to no controversy.

[goodgrowth]

Downtown is such a bottleneck both in terms of geography and nimbyism that I don't even know what you'd get accomplished. Maybe the odd development every few years. It's almost a waste of time to focus on.

[wmemeadusjr]

Many cities incorporate heritage structures into new developments.

[suvla85]

Originally Posted by jjavman

St. John's needs someone at City Hall that is pro-development downtown.
Downtown is currently treated as a museum of mostly early 20th century buildings. Most progressive cities have an acceptable mix of heritage and vibrant business. Baltimore/Philadelphia/Boston and Montreal come to mind.
Even Halifax has surpassed us in leaps and bounds, if only for it's imaginative
harbourside developments.

Without a definite policy/plan for downtown, it will continue to decay, and corporations continue to build plants in the periphery, where there is little to no controversy.

I'd argue Halifax is way behind us on this front, and I've heard the same from Haligonians visiting here. Heritage isn't a factor in planning in that city, and as a result there's no distinctive character despite the city's age. Just a few scattered pretty old buildings.
Yes, their waterfront is much nicer, but that has nothing to do with development planning: they have a massive harbour and can put industrial operations in a different area. St. John's has a tiny harbour and its downtown abuts industrial use. No city councillor can change that.
What St. John's does have is a distinctive character that incorporates heritage into its very essence, across both commercial and residential downtown. It's a huge part of the tourism draw here. Halifax has a lot going for it, but it doesn't have that.

[Marty_Mcfly]

While that's nice and all, Halifax is a vibrant, booming city with a very busy core, with a large chunk of people living on the peninsula.

St. John's downtown is absolutely dead minus a few weeks in the summer, the handful of tourists aren't really moving the needle, and we have so few people actually living downtown. Look at all the residential developments in downtown Halifax and then look at what we have. We should be pushing for people to live downtown instead of in places like Galway.

[jjavman]

Originally Posted by suvla85

I'd argue Halifax is way behind us on this front, and I've heard the same from Haligonians visiting here. Heritage isn't a factor in planning in that city, and as a result there's no distinctive character despite the city's age. Just a few scattered pretty old buildings.
Yes, their waterfront is much nicer, but that has nothing to do with development planning: they have a massive harbour and can put industrial operations in a different area. St. John's has a tiny harbour and its downtown abuts industrial use. No city councillor can change that.
What St. John's does have is a distinctive character that incorporates heritage into its very essence, across both commercial and residential downtown. It's a huge part of the tourism draw here. Halifax has a lot going for it, but it doesn't have that.

Disagree. Halifax has a vibrant heritage community and they leverage it for maximum tourist draw. Google Halifax heritage and you'll discover many distinct heritage conservation areas. Their downtown is no more disjointed than ours. Yes Halifax Harbour is huge, but I would not call St. John's harbour 'tiny' in any respect. It's certainly not an efficient use of space, and the lack of finger piers reduce the efficient use of the volume that exists. A dedicated cruise ship finger pier could free up harbourside space and eliminate the fence. City Council cannot change the harbour space, but lobbying to the feds for a secure cruise ship area could. It would not be cheap.

[PoscStudent]

CBC now has an article on the 10-storey apartment building KMK is hoping to build on New Cove Road/Kenna’s Hill. Seems like reaction from council is positive, Danny Breen is positive and I saw positive comments from councillors elsewhere. Seems like it took a housing crisis to get the city to be opened to “high” density.

This location is a great one though, close to downtown, dominion across the street, transit, Quidi Vidi Lake and other trail networks nearby.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...osal-1.7037913

[PoscStudent]

Transportation Minister John Abbott is saying that the site of the old Grace Hospital is too small for the St. Clare’s replacement.

https://vocm.com/2024/02/17/st-clares-replacement-land/

[Crisisnf]

Originally Posted by PoscStudent

Transportation Minister John Abbott is saying that the site of the old Grace Hospital is too small for the St. Clare’s replacement.

https://vocm.com/2024/02/17/st-clares-replacement-land/

Why not build up? Or take the Curtis Elementary property elow it? Might have to purchase tge Bradbury Place homes

[Tommyswally]

They shouldn't build it anywhere in that area, there is no room & no parking available. Plus the fact that there are a lot of drug heads in the area which makes it dangerous for employees & patrons of St. Clares. Maybe in Stavenger drive area or Galway would make more sense

[jjavman]

Originally Posted by Tommyswally

They shouldn't build it anywhere in that area, there is no room & no parking available. Plus the fact that there are a lot of drug heads in the area which makes it dangerous for employees & patrons of St. Clares. Maybe in Stavenger drive area or Galway would make more sense

Imagine walking across the parking lot up at Galway for visitation
or out-patient care in the dead of winter. BRRRR.

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by Tommyswally

They shouldn't build it anywhere in that area, there is no room & no parking available. Plus the fact that there are a lot of drug heads in the area which makes it dangerous for employees & patrons of St. Clares. Maybe in Stavenger drive area or Galway would make more sense

Relax, it's Lemarchant Road, not Compton.

[colinpeddle]

If only there wasn’t an area of town with a vast swaths of empty real estate, lots of parking, nearby to an adult oriented village, nearby to various conveniences like grocery and other shopping, and also nearby to a hotel, with highway access… and airport access for faster service from lifeflights.

If only…

Put a larger medical center at Stavanger drive and the build a smaller clinic for various services like the Majors Path clinic at the Grace site to serve that area.

[goodgrowth]

The new hospital should go more west than east. Putting all the medical centers in the central/east end of St. John's completely ignores the population growth and layout of the metro area. This isn't 1980.