Canadian Retail Thread

[hipster duck]

There's a business Costco in Toronto at Eglinton and Warden. Any Costco member can shop there.

It's aimed at small business owners and, particularly, restaurants. You can buy all the same food as you can at a regular Costco, albeit in even bigger packages for things like meat (like chicken thighs in a 5 kg box), but also things like commercial-grade janitorial supplies, kitchen equipment, etc.

What's missing are things like all the lifestyle/clothing items that you usually find in the "centre" between the food and supplies aisles. Also no pharmacy and electronics.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

There's a business Costco in Toronto at Eglinton and Warden. Any Costco member can shop there.

It's aimed at small business owners and, particularly, restaurants. You can buy all the same food as you can at a regular Costco, albeit in even bigger packages for things like meat (like chicken thighs in a 5 kg box), but also things like commercial-grade janitorial supplies, kitchen equipment, etc.

What's missing are things like all the lifestyle/clothing items that you usually find in the "centre" between the food and supplies aisles. Also no pharmacy and electronics.

Thanks to everyone who responded.

For many years now, the east end of Ottawa has been underserved by Costco compared to the south and west. We've been clamoring for a second location. Sounds like the Business Centre might not be quite as good as a second regular store, but could at least alleviate some of the pressure.

[esquire]

Hudson's Bay has announced that the historic downtown Winnipeg store on Portage Avenue will be closing for good in February. It has been in a steady state of decline for the last 25 years... for the last several years, only two of the seven levels were still operating. It appears that the emptying out of downtown offices due to covid was the death blow.

HBC owns the building, which has municipal heritage protection. There are no known plans for redevelopment.

[zahav]

For some reason I always feel sad when a classic department store closes like this. I know the retail landscape has changed a lot, but there's something about a big old department store in the downtown that is an important part of a City's urban fabric. When my mom immigrated to Canada in 1977, she arrived in Winnipeg, met my dad, had my brother, and moved to BC just before I was born. The Bay is still her favourite place to shop, and she always told me how the big downtown Bay in Winnipeg was her first shopping experience in Canada. She'll be sad to know it's days are numbered, even though she hasn't been back to Winnipeg in years

[EspionNoir]

Some developers came up several vision for the building but there’s no concrete plan as for now.

[Loco101]

I saw that classic HBC in August and my first thought was that it wasn't going to last much longer given the way retail has been and that it would likely close within a year due to the virus making things even worse.

My prediction that I've mentioned on here before is that HBC will change to small stores that are pretty much like gifts shops that sell their signature items and things visitors to Canada might be interested in. Many of the locations will be in major airports, high-traffic areas and touristy places.

HBC will also need to become Canadian owned again and be managed by people who know our country. While the stores overall have really gone downhill, the HBC name is worth a lot and some of their signature products are as well.

[isaidso]

Sad considering the companies roots in that city. Among other things, I still gauge a city's status by the existence of a big downtown department store. The more a city has the bigger deal I view that city. Winnipeg losing this store knocks them down a peg or 2 in my eyes. A much bigger downtown population probably would have ensured this store's future.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Loco101

My prediction that I've mentioned on here before is that HBC will change to small stores that are pretty much like gifts shops that sell their signature items and things visitors to Canada might be interested in. Many of the locations will be in major airports, high-traffic areas and touristy places.

I suspect that you are right. It feels HBC is kind of coasting on its reputation and getting by in markets with large populations to keep the stores afloat. But compared to places where department stores are still healthy and relevant, like in many Asian and European cities, HBC is downright pathetic in terms of its offerings.

The Banff HBC store, which is basically a glorified gift shop for tourists, is probably a glimpse into the company's future as a retailer.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Sad considering the companies roots in that city. Among other things, I still gauge a city's status by the existence of a big downtown department store. The more a city has the bigger deal I view that city. Winnipeg losing this store knocks them down a peg or 2 in my eyes. A much bigger downtown population probably would have ensured this store's future.

I think for most Winnipeggers, the loss of The Bay is something that will be felt more in terms of nostalgia than with regard to losing something that is really relevant or somehow matters to a lot of people. I mean, I shopped there a fair bit but I'm in a small minority for sure. I'm sure the closure of the downtown Winnipeg and Edmonton stores won't be the last ones that we see from HBC.

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by esquire

I think for most Winnipeggers, the loss of The Bay is something that will be felt more in terms of nostalgia than with regard to losing something that is really relevant or somehow matters to a lot of people. I mean, I shopped there a fair bit but I'm in a small minority for sure. I'm sure the closure of the downtown Winnipeg and Edmonton stores won't be the last ones that we see from HBC.

HBC has already announced that they will reduce Montreal's massive downtown store to only three floors (from seven presently).

[MolsonExport]

really sad to hear about the flagship HBC store in Winnipeg. I really miss the old days of huge department stores (we used to shop a lot at the Downtown Eaton's on Rue Ste. Catherine in Montreal). today's malls suck, crammed with a zillion women's shoe stores, garbage like H&M, and 20,000 places selling cellphones and bling.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by esquire

I suspect that you are right. It feels HBC is kind of coasting on its reputation and getting by in markets with large populations to keep the stores afloat. But compared to places where department stores are still healthy and relevant, like in many Asian and European cities, HBC is downright pathetic in terms of its offerings.

The Banff HBC store, which is basically a glorified gift shop for tourists, is probably a glimpse into the company's future as a retailer.

In downtown Vancouver that's not true. Probably one of the best old-school department stores and the company has put a lot of money into how it looks. In all seriousness I'd put it just a notch behind Selfridges in terms of presentation, if not size and selection. Nordstrom may look flashier but their stores are mostly newer. It puts any Macys to shame, even Herald Square.

[esquire]

^ Yeah, the store still looks pretty healthy at its main downtown Toronto and Vancouver locations. Between the large local population and numbers of tourists I can see them continuing to do well for a while at those locations. But in many other markets it doesn't feel like they're trying very hard anymore. Even in downtown Toronto, the Bloor Street location looked kind of forlorn the last time I was there.

[ue]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Sad considering the companies roots in that city. Among other things, I still gauge a city's status by the existence of a big downtown department store. The more a city has the bigger deal I view that city. Winnipeg losing this store knocks them down a peg or 2 in my eyes. A much bigger downtown population probably would have ensured this store's future.

I’d argue this is kind of an antiquated view. Department stores aren’t the important places they once were, and so I don’t know if Winnipeg losing the Bay downtown which most people had moved beyond but still having stores like MEC or a well-utilized downtown arena means it is a notch below now. Is Calgary somehow a notch below because Okotoks is not in the CMA calculations?

It’s still quite sad as the building and its history is tremendous, especially for Winnipeg. It’s unfortunate that it could not have been updated with the times and how people shop in the 21st century, though it really is quite a pathetic Bay store on the inside. They really ironed out a lot of the ornate detailing or at least hid it behind walls in the decades upon decades of renovations in a terrible attempt to ‘modernize’. Hopefully whomever takes over the property can restore the beautiful interior architecture of the Portage Bay store.

[ue]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Yeah, the store still looks pretty healthy at its main downtown Toronto and Vancouver locations. Between the large local population and numbers of tourists I can see them continuing to do well for a while at those locations. But in many other markets it doesn't feel like they're trying very hard anymore. Even in downtown Toronto, the Bloor Street location looked kind of forlorn the last time I was there.

It’s quite annoying seeing the Bay renovate stores throughout the country and not take the opportunity to at least make them somewhat more like the Queen Street and Granville Street stores. I was shocked that the St-Catherine Bay was not all that much better from your average Prairie Bay store.

I think a decent strategy would be for the Bay to consolidate and have a smaller list of locations that are higher quality like the Vancouver/Toronto flagship. But also make the St-Catherine store a flagship level.

Like, if they kept the stores down to:
- Granville St, Richmond Centre, Metrotown for Vancouver
- Mayfair or Bay Centre for Victoria
- Chinook and the Core for Calgary
- Southgate and WEM for Edmonton (ideally relocate one of these Downtown)
- Midtown Plaza for Saskatoon
- Cornwall Centre for Regina
- Polo Park for Winnipeg
- Queen St, Yorkdale, Square One, Scarborough Centre, Markville, and either Hillcrest or Fairview for Toronto
- Lime Ridge for Hamilton
- Masonville for London
- Conestoga for Waterloo Region
- Rideau Centre and Bayshore for Ottawa
- St-Catherine, Carrefour Laval, Fairview Pointe Claire, and Mail Champlain or Galeries d’Anjou for Montreal
- Ste-Foy for Quebec City
- Micmac Mall for Halifax (ideally relocate Downtown)

And had them even 75% of what the Queen/Granville stores are, they’d be ok, I think.

[someone123]

I understand why people have some nostalgia for Hudson's Bay and the old downtown department store buildings are nice but it seems like a poor fit to the modern retail landscape. I tend to forget that Vancouver has this place.

Partly it's not targeted at me but most shopping seems to fit into 4 categories:

1) Cheap bulk stuff that you might pick up in person (Costco, IKEA)
2) Convenience food or personal items
3) Commodity midrange stuff (market share shifting to online shopping)
4) Experiential boutique shops (storefronts in prime areas)

The big department stores occupy downtown space roughly competing with (4) but they also historically sold a lot of (3) which is challenging now. I think the era of people taking transit downtown to buy a vacuum is pretty much over.

As an aside Halifax never had a downtown Hudson's Bay. While there may be a group who like large downtown department stores for prestige or nostalgia reasons, from what I can tell the lobby of people who want to shop at such a place because it offers products they cannot otherwise get is ~0.

[WhipperSnapper]

I have many fond childhood memories of HBC. It was a true department store back then. Now, it's a stretch of the imagination. There was no toy department for my daughter and nieces and nephews. There is no tool department for me to partake in the joy and excitement my dad had.

[casper]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I have many fond childhood memories of HBC. It was a true department store back then. Now, it's a stretch of the imagination. There was no toy department for my daughter and nieces and nephews. There is no tool department for me to partake in the joy and excitement my dad had.

Going to school for a short period of time I worked part time in toy land at HBC in Downtown Vancouver. This late 80s early 90s. Our manager was responsible for knitting, luggage and toys. She did a good job of finding cohesion between those two departments. The ladies that working the floor on the knitting side were older, they knew their staff and they knitted as a hobby. The two people who did luggage know her stuff. From toys we might cover if they were on break. The staff in toys were all younger and generally understood the product. The other half of the floor had a different manager that had commissioned sales that did TV and major appliances.

I remember one day the bay had a house branded radio controlled car product that was junk. After two/three returns the attitude of our manager was taken the off the shelf and put them in the back room. The buyers at head office in Toronto will eventually figure out they are not selling and stop sending them to us.

If we were out of stock we will phone around to the other bays and have it held for the customer or call over to Eaton's across the street and do the same.

I can't image that level of service from Walmart or staff that know their stuff. In comparison when I went to buy lawnmower at Canadian Tire the sales rep made it clear he would get in trouble if he talked about the features. He could read the signs for me and help take it out to the car, that was it.

[svlt]

Originally Posted by whatnext

In downtown Vancouver that's not true. Probably one of the best old-school department stores and the company has put a lot of money into how it looks. In all seriousness I'd put it just a notch behind Selfridges in terms of presentation, if not size and selection. Nordstrom may look flashier but their stores are mostly newer. It puts any Macys to shame, even Herald Square.

They're even doing well enough apparently to expand their luxury goods section (The Room) to include a men's section in Vancouver. It's such a strange departure from what I usually associate with The Bay (tourist trinkets, casual home furnishings).

[esquire]

Originally Posted by ue

It’s quite annoying seeing the Bay renovate stores throughout the country and not take the opportunity to at least make them somewhat more like the Queen Street and Granville Street stores. I was shocked that the St-Catherine Bay was not all that much better from your average Prairie Bay store.

I think a decent strategy would be for the Bay to consolidate and have a smaller list of locations that are higher quality like the Vancouver/Toronto flagship. But also make the St-Catherine store a flagship level.

Consolidating locations is not a bad idea. Better to have a small handful of good locations than a bunch of half assed ones.

But looking at it another way, if only the Queen Street and Granville Street stores are still in A-1 shape, that tells you what kind of condition the rest of the chain is in. The chain's bosses would be investing in the rest of the stores if there was a decent return to be had.

Considering the steady stream of department stores that have gone under within the last 30 years or so (Eaton's, Woodward's, Sears), I suppose it shouldn't come as a shock that Hudson's Bay is the next one on the chopping block.