[Halifax] 290 Herring Cove Road | 15 m | 4 fl | Proposed

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

She votes for 90% of what is put in front of us. Give me a break. She has voted for all those little 6-7 story condos and apartments in the North End for example, a dozen of them. When I say I voted for 150 developments in the last 18 months I think she voted for maybe 142. I think we have voted the opposite of each other 10 times, twice last night.

Again, it is not a Councillors job to vote yes - if our job was to approve everything unquestioned, you could just get rid of Council and let the bureaucrats do whatever they wanted. I would say 50% of the time that there is a contentious issue staff are against Council overrides them and lets it go ahead, so that might not get you the results you are looking for.

I don't believe you. She is against most developments of any size or height. About the only thing she votes for is bike lanes, urban gardens, and any structure less than 3 stories. 6 to 7 stories gets very iffy for her unless they are way up the north end. You, yourself have a pretty good record of voting against anything substantial.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

She votes for 90% of what is put in front of us. Give me a break. She has voted for all those little 6-7 story condos and apartments in the North End for example, a dozen of them. When I say I voted for 150 developments in the last 18 months I think she voted for maybe 142. I think we have voted the opposite of each other 10 times, twice last night.

Again, it is not a Councillors job to vote yes - if our job was to approve everything unquestioned, you could just get rid of Council and let the bureaucrats do whatever they wanted. I would say 50% of the time that there is a contentious issue staff are against Council overrides them and lets it go ahead, so that might not get you the results you are looking for.

I don't believe you. She is against most developments of any size or height. About the only thing she votes for is bike lanes, urban gardens, and any structure less than 3 stories. 6 to 7 stories gets very iffy for her unless they are way up the north end. You, yourself have a pretty good record of voting against anything substantial.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Since I moved to Halifax, I feel like I've noticed an unusually large number of locals who seem to think the job of municipal politicians should be to get out of developers' way, rather than hold them to planning standards or reflect their constituents' concerns.

It's certainly a minority, but I don't often hear this, "Oh, the poor developers have to abide by community standards or consider local concerns" talk elsewhere. It's weird.

Who talks like that around here? Nobody I know does, and I've been here a long time...

Maybe you're talking to too many developers.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

I don't believe you. She is against most developments of any size or height. About the only thing she votes for is bike lanes, urban gardens, and any structure less than 3 stories. 6 to 7 stories gets very iffy for her unless they are way up the north end. You, yourself have a pretty good record of voting against anything substantial.

You know, in any democracy it's healthy for there to be opposing views and different viewpoints presented. That's the way our political system is supposed to work. Just because she doesn't champion your ideals doesn't mean she doesn't have a right to vote or express her views. Her job is to fight for the will of her constituents, not to vote "yes" to everything so that she doesn't rock the boat.

And calling Waye a liar isn't very good form, IMHO.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Who talks like that around here? Nobody I know does, and I've been here a long time...

Maybe you're talking to too many developers.

Not that it's a good reflection of reasonable opinion, but the Herald comments thread on any development-focused story seems to read like that. And there are a few folks on this board who seem to lean toward the idea that citizens' groups and planners should just stay out of developers' way...

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Not that it's a good reflection of reasonable opinion, but the Herald comments thread on any development-focused story seems to read like that. And there are a few folks on this board who seem to lean toward the idea that citizens' groups and planners should just stay out of developers' way...

I no longer read comment threads attached to newspaper articles as I feel that they are written mostly the "lunatic fringe" and are largely designed to elicit negative reactions from other readers rather than to present intelligent and reasonable ideas.

Another thing to consider is that maybe you are reading comments on different forums that are authored by the same people...

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Not that it's a good reflection of reasonable opinion, but the Herald comments thread on any development-focused story seems to read like that. And there are a few folks on this board who seem to lean toward the idea that citizens' groups and planners should just stay out of developers' way...

You need to keep in mind that what you call "citizens groups" in this town are largely the Heritage Trust, who are notorious obstructionists, and the various "Friends of..." outfits, who are single-issue groups devoted to maintaining the status quo and thus against any development in the area. In my mind it would not be a bad things if these groups did indeed stay out of developers way. The issues are best dealt with by professional staff and not hijacked by loudmouthed special interests, as always seems to be the case here.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

You need to keep in mind that what you call "citizens groups" in this town are largely the Heritage Trust, who are notorious obstructionists, and the various "Friends of..." outfits, who are single-issue groups devoted to maintaining the status quo and thus against any development in the area. In my mind it would not be a bad things if these groups did indeed stay out of developers way. The issues are best dealt with by professional staff and not hijacked by loudmouthed special interests, as always seems to be the case here.

I have to agree with Keith on this one, to a certain extent. Unlike Calgary and Edmonton where each neighbourhood/community has a Community Association or Community League - Halifax's neighbourhoods don't have that strong bond or definition. Everyone who lives in the North End defines their neighbourhood as the north end, when in fact they could be part of Richmond, Convoy Place or Catamaran. Did you know there was a neighbourhood called Catamaran? I didn't! I was shocked that the area between Bayers Road, Connaught, Windsor and Oxford had that name! Who knew!

But here; the CA's often get involved quite heavily in planning matters - both for the good and bad. It really depends on the community. For example the Richmond CA tends to appeal every house/semi detached if they don't provide certain # of trees or certain design styles - quite frustrating. While other neighbourhoods like Capitol Hill or Banff Trail are all excited about redevelopment and encouraging it and very supportive of it.

Not having these types of associations and just having loose groups like what HRM says may be better or worse. I guess it depends on the perspective...

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

I don't believe you. She is against most developments of any size or height. About the only thing she votes for is bike lanes, urban gardens, and any structure less than 3 stories.

That is certainly how I perceive her.

You, yourself have a pretty good record of voting against anything substantial.

Only if it is in the old-money residential neighborhoods.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

She votes for 90% of what is put in front of us. Give me a break. She has voted for all those little 6-7 story condos and apartments in the North End for example, a dozen of them. When I say I voted for 150 developments in the last 18 months I think she voted for maybe 142. I think we have voted the opposite of each other 10 times, twice last night.

A cursory search of this site revealed she opposed the following:

1595 Barrington
St Pats/Alexandra
22nd Commerce Square
Nova Center
1034-1056 Wellington St
Artillery Place Landmark
Carlton Terrace
Motherhouse @ MSVU
3065 Robie
6100 Young (made them saw off a few floors)
3090 Oxford St
Skye
Spirit Place
The Bay renovation
Quinpool & Vernon


There may well be others but I didn't want to beat a dead horse. She is against almost everything.

[halifaxboyns]

Well whether she does or doesn't vote one way or another is really immaterial to the issue. Council is 16 votes plus the mayor - being one vote against, doesn't matter when the bulk are in favour.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Well whether she does or doesn't vote one way or another is really immaterial to the issue. Council is 16 votes plus the mayor - being one vote against, doesn't matter when the bulk are in favour.

Except - that we were discussing her vote on this development and her voting record. Then there were some accusations and the list basically validates the thought that she has to go as she is a detriment to development in Halifax

[Hali87]

Not really. In practice she basically just plays devil's advocate, as somebody should. I don't think she's ever been close to being a deciding vote, so her actual impact on development approvals is basically 0.

As others have pointed out, what's the point of having a council if all they do is vote "yes" every time all the time?

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

Except - that we were discussing her vote on this development and her voting record. Then there were some accusations and the list basically validates the thought that she has to go as she is a detriment to development in Halifax

Well in the end - what does it matter? This may sound hard - but do I care how Waye or any other councillors vote? Not particularly - all I care about (on matters I believe in) is that the vote is 9 in favour. Who gets me those 9 votes; I don't care - so I don't see the point in dwelling on the voting pattern of any councillor.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

Well in the end - what does it matter? This may sound hard - but do I care how Waye or any other councillors vote? Not particularly - all I care about (on matters I believe in) is that the vote is 9 in favour. Who gets me those 9 votes; I don't care - so I don't see the point in dwelling on the voting pattern of any councillor.

For those of us who live in the city and in particular districts, there is a very definite concern as to who is voting for what. It is called 'political engagement'.
I like to be informed on what my councillor is doing other than the 6 weeks before election day.
If every citizen were engaged and voted on the issues rather than just name recognition we would have much better representation.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

For those of us who live in the city and in particular districts, there is a very definite concern as to who is voting for what. It is called 'political engagement'.
I like to be informed on what my councillor is doing other than the 6 weeks before election day.
If every citizen were engaged and voted on the issues rather than just name recognition we would have much better representation.

Indeed. And of course one gets into the backroom horse-trading that happens every day among elected reps, so she may well be moving otherwise indifferent council members to vote against development proposals in exchange for favors on other issues. She needs to be removed.